Um, just where is it recorded: what our Lord said about those who expect to see signs and wonders???

Um, just where is it recorded: what our Lord said about those who expect to see signs and wonders

Chasing after signs and wonders is a questionable disposition and can lead to problems. But when heaven does what it did at Fatima, we are now held accountable to respond and fulfill the mandate given to us. They did not come with suggestions. They came with a warning to make correction to our present course. If we despise their prophetic action, that is our choice, but then we will suffer the consequences.

Charles

I have to agree that great confusion and disorientation have overtaken us. It is as if many voices are crying out, "this is the way... no, THIS is the way!" It is very difficult to know which way to turn. As for the consecration, Our Lady told us that it would finally be done but it would be late.

As for it being a private revelation, it is not in that category:

6. But isn’t Fatima just a private apparition no Catholic has to believe?
A: Far from it. The apparitions at Fatima were confirmed by a public miracle witnessed by 70,000 people—the Miracle of the Sun. Pope John Paul II himself declared at Fatima in 1982 that the Message of Fatima “imposes an obligation on the Church”, and he publicly attributed to Our Lady of Fatima his escape from death in the assassination attempt of May 13, 1981—the very anniversary of Our Lady of Fatima.

Evidently our deliverance is at hand.

I didn't know you were a Trump supporter.

Avignon is an incredibly beautiful place. OMG

OK... Let's all take a bus trip to Avignon. Who's in?

ok... so far JulieColl, Charles and I are going to Avignon. Y'all can just stay in your churches and work. We'll send pictures.

hmmm... another option for trip to Avignon just showed up in my in box

Private Yacht-Charter Options

Did you always wonder about chartering a Private-Yacht?

Have you always simply assumed that they are just for the wealthy?

Private Yacht-Charters are accommodating, well-run, friendly
and are fit for any-budget or size!

You've got the wrong place. Since the Babylonian Captivity, other options have become available.

Like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angra_do_Heroísmo#Climate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angra_do_Heroísmo#/media/File:Angra_do_Heroísmo_-_Sicht_vom_Obelisken_auf_Stadt_und_Hafenbucht_mit_Monte_Brasil.JPG

Because of the significant Lusophone community in southeastern New England, Boston has good flights to the Azores. Under 5 hours, and it's only a 4 hour time zone difference (and actually should be only 3 hours, so it's far to the west of its proper zone, meaning very late sunsets...) And, unlike the Canary Islands, the Azores were not inhabited by humans when colonized by the Portuguese 600 years ago.

(I mean, Nossa Senhora de Fatima obviously would prefer a Portuguese site over the shameful site of the former Babylonian Captivity.)

I'll second eft, and as long as we're in Avignon there should be none of that post-Dufay newfangledness.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/05/31/pope-francis-says-wont-retire-like-predecessor-benedict-xvi.html

I wish Pope Francis well, esp. if in his magnanimousness, he completes the regularization of the SSPX and allows them to become well established. That has been, at least from my point of view, a thrilling development.

Perhaps some shaking up of the status quo is not always a bad thing, and we have to be open to possible movements of the Holy Spirit, no matter what, and find the positive. As Jesus said,

"The Spirit breatheth where he will; and thou hearest his voice, but thou knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth."

You see that in the political sphere as well, I think. Things are quite tumultuous, but it hasn't been a bad thing to see certain ideologies and policies questioned and new, creative ideas and possibilities introduced into the mainstream. All politics aside, I certainly enjoy the theater and rhetoric of a certain candidate. This guy is great fun and always puts on an impressive show.

I agree with your assessment. These are rather brassy assertions by GW:

The former Benedict XVI ought to have reverted to being Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, or perhaps simply “Bishop Joseph.” And with all respect to a man I esteem and who showed me many kindnesses over almost two decades, he ought not have kept even a modified form of the vesture proper to a pope. In a world of images, the white cassock and zucchetto worn by the man who is no longer pope sends the wrong signal.

A papal abdication, no matter what the circumstances, involves renouncing the Office of Peter, not reconceptualizing it. No good end is served by suggestions that the Petrine ministry in our day has been redefined or expanded.

In the end, I don't know what gives GW the authority to define how Pope Benedict "ought" to have acted, and I don't know what gives him the right to define what a papal abdication is, or ought to be, since it seems to be uncharted territory---unless he has access to an obscure medieval codex somewhere in the Vatican that regulates such events.

In the end, I don't know what gives GW the authority to define how Pope Benedict "ought" to have acted, and I don't know what gives him the right to define what a papal abdication is, or ought to be, since it seems to be uncharted territory---unless he has access to an obscure medieval codex somewhere in the Vatican that regulates such events.

Maybe he's just been talking to canon lawyers. The possibility of a pope renouncing the office is defined in a well-known codex, the Code of Canon Law, and experts in the field are in a position to give educated opinions about what style he is entitled to assume afterward. The title of a former pope is not specified explicitly, but the invention of a new title of "Pope Emeritus" was unexpected and really still is mildly controversial. The title of "Bishop Emeritus" has been around for a few decades, and could have been used ("Bishop Emeritus of Rome"). The former pope could also have resumed the title of Cardinal. Moreover, Benedict XVI himself told a journalist that he would have preferred to be called "Father Benedict".

That is certainly correct, Chonak, and your thesis would certainly apply to a pope who has the intention of renouncing the papal office, as we all thought Benedict had done, until, that is, Arbp. Ganswein raised the spectre that his renunciation of the office was not what we had all assumed. The question some have asked is, given the fact that Arbp. Ganswein appears to be saying that Pope Benedict was trying in his own mind to expand the papal office and not fully renounce it, could that call into question the validity of his resignation, given the fact that in his own mind, he may not have been actually renouncing the papacy.

With all due respect to George Weigel, Pope Benedict also knows canon law, and knows it far better than Mr. Weigel, and a more reasonable approach to Arbp. Ganswein's revelation would be to follow up with a series of questions asking the Archbishop to expand his remarks and tell us more about what Pope Benedict had in mind when he "resigned" or "abdicated", or "expanded the papal office".

If what Pope Benedict did was not "resigning" or "abdicating" as defined by canon law, then instead of talking about George Weigel's list of what "ought" to have been done, we should be listening to Arbp. Ganswein explaining more about what the Pope actually did . . . and why.

I was thinking about my dad who was a letter carrier all his life

You're John Kasich's sister?

He renounced the office and resigned. The privileges, title, and attire he kept were allowed by his successor, Pope Francis. Is this going to turn into another Fatima type conspiracy where the text is over-interpreted and parsed for meanings that are not there?

Here’s the full text of Pope’s statement, as presented on the Vatican web site:

Dear Brothers,

I have convoked you to this Consistory, not only for the three canonizations, but also to communicate to you a decision of great importance for the life of the Church. After having repeatedly examined my conscience before God, I have come to the certainty that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry. I am well aware that this ministry, due to its essential spiritual nature, must be carried out not only with words and deeds, but no less with prayer and suffering. However, in today’s world, subject to so many rapid changes and shaken by questions of deep relevance for the life of faith, in order to govern the barque of Saint Peter and proclaim the Gospel, both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months, has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognize my incapacity to adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me. For this reason, and well aware of the seriousness of this act, with full freedom I declare that I renounce the ministry of Bishop of Rome, Successor of Saint Peter, entrusted to me by the Cardinals on 19 April 2005, in such a way, that as from 28 February 2013, at 20:00 hours, the See of Rome, the See of Saint Peter, will be vacant and a Conclave to elect the new Supreme Pontiff will have to be convoked by those whose competence it is.

Dear Brothers, I thank you most sincerely for all the love and work with which you have supported me in my ministry and I ask pardon for all my defects. And now, let us entrust the Holy Church to the care of Our Supreme Pastor, Our Lord Jesus Christ, and implore his holy Mother Mary, so that she may assist the Cardinal Fathers with her maternal solicitude, in electing a new Supreme Pontiff. With regard to myself, I wish to also devotedly serve the Holy Church of God in the future through a life dedicated to prayer.

From the Vatican, 10 February 2013

BENEDICTUS PP XVI

.

It is misleading to call Fr. Paul Kramer a "Vatican canon lawyer", unless he works for the Holy See and holds a canon-law degree.

That is probably not the case, inasmuch as various web pages describe him as a sedevacantist.

As of 2010, his by-line in the "Fatima Crusader" magazine described his education as "M.Div., S.T.L. (cand.)" : with no canon law degree, not even pursuing one. Has that changed?

That's a really good question. I'm only sorry that when I read the author Francis that it immediately leapt to mind that Pope Francis had decided to pose this question rhetorically on the forum. (sorry I found it slightly amusing that my brain went there)

I somewhat think we have 2 popes even though really we have one but the world is currently choosing to listen to one over the other and I have a feeling that this has something to do with God's will to have both still on Earth, essentially we currently need both not from a theology point of view but from a media perspective.

Let's face it, many people don't like Pope Francis and many people don't like Benedict and I imagine we may have lost people if Benedict didn't step down and we may also have lost people if Benedict wasn't still around. What we have to remember is we're still the Catholic church. We still follow Catholic doctrine and we are still built on the rock of St. Peter.
I guess I'm saying this:
Essentially you can have a hard shell taco kit or a soft shell taco kit and neither might actually be as authentic as the original real taco but both present the idea from different angles.

Regardless I think respecting both popes past or present is important. Because one is pope emeritus and other is Pope. Both ask for our prayers so pray for both? Extra prayers wont do any harm especially if you pray for good things. Whether you like one pope over another we have to remember that we are called to respect our Church's father and badmouthing either one of the popes won't do any good. If one is worried just pray, that's what I do when I'm worried about the pope situation.

I must admit I find the pope situation about as confusing as the hung parliament situations we get in Australian elections. Luckily in the Church's situation I have documents to fall back on such as the Bible and Catechism...

Occam's Razor can get a "dull" edge to it every now and then, Charles.

I can say Kramer is great in the confessional! He's awesome, not so in touch with youth issues but still willing to talk. Really nice guy, good taste in music and food.

Is this a Pope-ularity contest?

Should Benedict XVI be reinstated by Pope-ular demand?

What does the general Pope-lation think about this?

Or is this just a new brand of theatre Pope-corn?

Kind of a sensory overload here, wouldn't want to have an epi-pope-ptlic seizure!