What is your favorite GIA or OCP hymnal ?
  • Hi everyone,
    I wanted to know YOUR favorite GIA or OCP hymnal (if any) and why you like using it? I've come to realized that a single hymnal is not enough since its usually missing core hymns/mass settings.
  • We currently use Breaking Bread. I use approximately 10% of the hymns in it, and simply ignore what I don't see fit. I program 90% metrical/traditional hymns. Don't really care for all but 1 or 2 of the Mass settings. They do offer the Mass VIII Gloria and Credo III as well as the chants of the new Missal. Much better than their products of 10 or 15 years ago. I suspect that with Archbishop Sample sitting on their Board, there could be other positive changes in store, down the road.

    That being said, I think a disposable Missal program is a waste of money. I am currently reviewing hymnals, and am probably going to go with Worship IV. If I stick around another 10 years, I suspect i'll replace that with something even more traditional.
    Thanked by 1theloniouslopez
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,494
    Worship IV. Yes, it has crummy Haugen mass settings, but there are others that are useful. I like the Schubert mass, and so does the pastor. It also has a good selection of traditional hymns.
  • theloniouslopez, Daniel Craig, a student at Steubenville, has reviews several Catholic hymnals here, including GIA Worship IV.

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    Thanked by 1theloniouslopez
  • My parish is an OCP parish. Today's Missal and Breaking Bread are in the pews. We work some of the traditional stuff in, but mostly we use the contemporary music. The choir uses Choral Praise Third Edition. I like using the version with Lectionary readings although it can get a bit heavy if I don't have a music stand. http://www.ocp.org/products/30107334
    Thanked by 1theloniouslopez
  • Bobby Bolin
    Posts: 385
    It seems like every church around here is OCP Breaking Bread. Personally, I prefer the Worship IV, but it is far from perfect.
    Thanked by 1theloniouslopez
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    There is little difference. The devil you know (in my case, BB) is better than the devil you don't. (If GIA had an iota of common sense, they'd've revised RITUALSONGS v2. I never thought I'd confess this, but they miss Batastini.
    We're going weekly in November. More cross to bear, pain in the neck labor intensive crapola, but enough is enough. I just hope we sell parish on Lumen Christi as missal.
  • Current parish uses Breaking Bread. For me, it's bearable. I use what I use, and try to avoid that which I deem theologially (or musically) lacking or not easily accessible to the parishioner-at-large. Hope to eliminate BB by the end of the year in favor of something permanent.

    A previous parish, in which I served in no official capacity, uses Glory & Praise 2nd ed. (the most recent edition with the green cover, and which has now been deleted by OCP). I liked it well enough, although that parish was used to a more traditional repertoire, and up to that point had pretty much relied exclusively on Liturgical Press' Celebrating the Eucharist missalette. They actually embraced the G&P quite well, considering that up until the end of 1996 when a piano was brought in, they were only used to organ music.

    I find that, among the current offerings, Worship IV is the lesser of all evils. Worship II was a fine hymnal, and III was also good. IV is not up to the standards of the previous two, but I think holds its own. In a primariy traditional book, I would like to have seen more of an adherance to original, traditional poetic texts (as in, I don't do "A Living Faith"). The new Gather, IMO, is too much of a step in the wrong direction.
    Thanked by 1theloniouslopez
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,641
    This past weekend I attended, while on vacation, a parish that had the Lumen Christi Missal in the pews and I have to say it was a welcome resource! They didn't use any of the music from it other than the Psalm, but even just that was very dignified and the resource just screamed class/dignity/beauty. I watched the family in the pew in front of us mark where the ICEL chant Gloria was with one ribbon and where the readings were with the other and I was just thrilled. What a remarkably better way to spend money than on disposable books that must be tossed in the trash regularly.
  • My situation requires me to select common repertoire out of Gather Comprehensive I and RitualSong. What actually is used out of both books can fit in a 68–page hymnal supplement. We use weekly programs as well.

    What I would love is a permanent Sunday/Solemnity/Feast solution that also included Evening Prayer I, II, and Lauds from the LotH. We sing Lauds every Sunday Mundelein Psalter-style, and it has slowly started to establish a regular following. (Even more impressive since Lauds is followed by the recitation of the Rosary, and then Mass.) It frustrates me that neither the GC I nor the RS Psalter sections includes all the Psalms and Canticles for a Week I–IV Sunday Lauds cycle according to the assignments given in the LotH. (Yes I know, one may substitute, but when you've prayed it "according to the book" for over a year, you start getting accustomed to its rhythm.)
  • OlbashOlbash
    Posts: 310
    If you are in a parish where Adam Wood's suggestion just won't fly, then I can find no better hymnal in print than the St. Michael Hymnal:

    http://www.stmichaelhymnal.com/
  • Can I be a gadfly and suggest that, German traditions to the contrary notwithstanding, a non-hymn-singing congregation is what we should seek: let us educate them to sing the Ordinary, and to not "settle" instead for singing at Mass, but to sing, rather, the Mass.

    And at times, all observe a reverent silence.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,494
    I would disagree a bit. I think we should teach the congregation to sing all the mass music plus hymns. They can do it.
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    If can get them to sing the responses to the priest, that, to me, is most important. Give me a parish in which this occurs, and it won't really matter what hymnal you use---the offertory or whatever passes for it in your parish will simply become an opportunity to read the bulletin (in the worst case scenario) but will not actually detract from the Mass itself. Or better, you choose the best of the hymns in whatever hymnal you end up with, in the best case scenario, to make a fine offering to our Lord and Master.
  • I was hoping for an expanded version of Worship III, but was profoundly disappointed to find that Worship IV was in fact RitualSong II. I considered RitualSong a convenient book to start the gentle upgrading of a parish's worship to perhaps a combination of the Parish Book of Chant & Worship III. The Hymnals of 1940 and 1982 worked well, because the Episcopal Church could legislate a common book for the whole church. I don't see this working for us in the English-speaking provinces of the Church. However, we have had for centuries a common book- the Graduale Romanum.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 694
    Current parish uses WLP's Song & Dance... er... I mean Word & Song. They also have Worship III hymnals that I'd like to use more, but have to work in slowly since they seem to prefer WLP.
    Thanked by 1theloniouslopez
  • Just curious as to why only OCP and GIA are being considered ... Or don't I want to know? :-)
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • TCJ
    Posts: 694
    Haha! I didn't even think about that when I posted. I guess I broke the thread rules by mentioning WLP!
  • Obviously it's the pastor that signs the check for hymnals, and many of them don't have the training in liturgical music nor the expertise in hymnals as we do, so they go by what they know. When I got with mine last week to discuss new books, I laid out sample copies of RitualSong 2 (sorry...ehm...Worship IV), JourneySongs, and People's Mass Book (which I'd love, except it's not been updated for the new missal, so it's pretty much off the table). My copy of St. Michael Hymnal hadn't arrived yet at the time. He immediately picked up Worship, and also asked about Gather (which I have but didn't consider as an option, and I think I've successfully steered him clear of it). Why? Because he is familiar with earlier editions of those that he had in previous parishes. Didn't really even look at JS or PMB. My copy of St. Michael has since arrived, and I showed it to him this morning. Again, he didn't even pick it up. [sigh]. Well, strictly speaking GIA and OCP, as I said before, Worship is the lesser of the evils, so it could certainly be worse; thank heavens I don't have to endure Sprit & Song.
  • @paul_onnonhoaraton - my parish is HUGE on OCP....why?? We have a very very large Latino community and it seems like the only complete hymnal in spanish is produced by OCP (Flor y Canto). Plus OCP donated a lot of accompaniment hymnals so I think to stay loyal they have been with them ever since. My parish will only consider something from GIA if there was to be a switch. This is why I am only asking for both Publishers. Haha. I think you were happier not knowing.
  • theloniouslopez,

    Have you considered GIA's new Spanish/English bilingual hymnal, "Oramos Cantando"? Here's a link:

    http://www.giamusic.com/sacred_music/hymnals_new_oramoscantando.cfm

    I don't know if the hymnal is available yet. If not, it will soon be in print.
    Thanked by 1theloniouslopez
  • @Fr. Jim Chepponis: Thanks! I have looked at it online before but waiting for it to come out to buy a copy and really look at the arranging.

    I haven't had a chance to work with GIA much for the reasons stated above. In a contemporary setting, where would GIA Gather (I know its not a spanish hymnal) rank? From what everyone is posting is that it took a step back from previous versions but wondering if it might be a step forward if you look at it from a contemporary setting?
  • theloniouslopez,

    The hymns in GIA's new Gather hymnal are around 70% contemporary and 30% traditional.

    The hymns in Worship IV are around 75% traditional and 25% contemporary.

    There are some bilingual & multilingual selections in each hymnal.

    More information is available at GIA's website. Whether either hymnal would be good for your congregation depends on your particular circumstances.
    Thanked by 1theloniouslopez
  • I think it's important to note that the strongest critics of OCP and GIA on this forum seem to be selling a product of their own. If said products offered the support materials that OCP and GIA offered, they would be a lot more attractive. Those arguments have been played out ad nauseam on other threads.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    As sympathetic as I am to WO's observation and analysis, I know there to be many more factors at play in the editorial processes of compiling hymnals, not the least of which is the ever (and I do believe it will be forever "ever") present desire that there emerges a "Holy Grail" sort of American Catholic hymnal that will finally unify a stable, sufficient and satisfying repertoire for worship that somehow fulfills the old MCW three criteria and CMAA's own three criteria.
    Can't and won't ever happen.
    We ought not to forget the principal dynamic tension is that the temporal governance of bishoprics within the USCCB remain a subset to those of the universal church, which have authorized hymnals and missals, etc. at hand and that function quite nicely for usage in both the OF/EF axis for the most part. As WO noted with his "ad nauseaum" quip, and Jeffrey Tucker frequently rails about, "we" are still in our desert pilgrimage looking for accomodations, not necessarily a final destination, a musical Zion so to speak.
    And good folk from Westendorf to Batastini to Alstott to Hitchcock, and now to Bartlett, Ambrosetti, Ostrowski and many others continue to look for a musical El Dorado, with good and noble intentions. This, too, isn't new. Higginson documents that we've been wandering for centuries in the colonies then States. Some of the outcomes are now regarded as "golden calfs" worthy only of defilement and discard. So what's a publisher to do to remain viable and still benefit, truly benefit the people of God if we can't find Zion in the Graduale Romanum or Liber Usualis?
    Then martial their considerable forces to supply the people what they need and cease their profit margin, carrot on a stick consumerist philosophy that demand can be manufactored by the Mad Men philosophy that is based upon selling people upon the notion they will always need something "new and shiny and happy." Let the publishers consider letting local to metropolitan Sees articulate what their needs actually are, and then publish a product for them, another like product to another locality who also can editorialize what they deem best.
    If Noel Jones, Adam Bartlett, Richard Rice and Jeffrey Ostrowski can do it from their desktops, no one's going to lie to my face and tell me the Big Three couldn't do the same in a heartbeat. Love to hear about that future from Fr. Chepponis and his peers at WLP/OCP.
    Thanked by 1ryand
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    "I think it's important to note that the strongest critics of OCP and GIA on this forum seem to be selling a product of their own."

    Argumentum ad hominem - we do speak Latin, after all. I note that no mention is made of the substance of the criticisms. I'd like to consider myself a strong critic of the Big Three, and I have nothing to sell. I'm not alone. Neither are the parishes that have bought materials by alternative publishers.

    "If said products offered the support materials that OCP and GIA offered, they would be a lot more attractive."

    What support materials? Attractive to whom? Ought there to be a Guitar Chord edition of the Campion Missal? Or C and Bb Trumpet books (SOLD SEPARATELY, naturally...) for the Lumen Christi Missal?

    There have been many reviews of these products. If you think their products are flawed in some way which has not come to the attention of either consumers or the producers, perhaps you should write your own review.
  • I think it's important to note that the strongest critics of OCP and GIA on this forum seem to be selling a product of their own.

    Like you, Gavin, I do not believe that statement to be accurate. I've noticed many "strong critics" of OCP and GIA who are not selling anything, to my knowledge. But I could be wrong.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,107
    I have nothing to sell and much to buy in the next two-four years. While I am not a vocal critic, none of the materials from OCP or GIA will satisfy me. I am clearly looking toward the "fringe" market of JO, Adam and others like them.

    And I am about to put PBC 2.0 into my choirs hands.
    Thanked by 1Paul_Onnonhoaraton
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 825
    Since I just signed the purchase order for G3 (against my better judgement, but nonetheless) I suppose I don't have much ground to stand on. Still, I have been reviewing various hymnals over the past couple years so here's my 2 cents:

    I agree with melo, and furthermore as far as I can tell there is plenty of support material for the smaller hymnals (take a look at CC Watershed). I would love to e-mail my cantors with rehearsal videos--all well done and all for free. To do that with a GIA hymnal I have to purchase an expensive copyright license to do so, and in most cases make the recordings myself.

    That being said, I have grown up with GIA hymnals and prefer them to OCP from the standpoint I prefer a "permanent hymnal" to a quarterly or yearly disposable. From what I can tell the Gather 3 and Worship IV are essentially identical --the only difference being the proportion of contemporary songs to traditional hymns. If you play mostly organ go with Worship, piano/guitar then Gather. I am critical of both hymnals primarily based on the text writing/editing. Traditional hymns in both have been watered down both in terms of language and theology. The grammar is poor, and not artistic and the theology is fuzzy (because we wouldn't want to challenge anyone's personal beliefs).

    Take a look at Faith of Our Fathers, or "A Living Faith" as it's now called for an excellent example (it's the same in both G and W). As far the the contemporary offerings are concerned the social justice issue is pushed heavily and many, many of the texts are not in line with orthodox Catholic theology. Not necessarily contradictory and I'm not going to throw around the "H" word, but let's just say the hymns of Ruth Duck don't match my understanding of Catholic teaching--nor should they, since she isn't even Catholic, so why include them in a book marketed as a Catholic hymnal? Sure there are some great Christian hymns from the Anglican and Lutheran traditions that can transcend denominational lines, but those hymns are essentially Catholic and are often based on scripture and are at least certainly vertically Christ centered rather than horizontally community centered (think, Now Thank We All Our God).

    Since your parish is already an OCP parish, and it doesn't sound like they are ready for a major change, then perhaps consider OCP's Journey Songs. Many of the traditional texts remain intact. The biggest difference is in the contemporary offerings--neither better nor worse just different. I can tell you that a colleague of mine recently ordered them for her parish and is disappointed with the keyboard accompaniment books. 4 volumes, spiral-bound and already falling apart. By contrast my 10 year old organ accompaniment book for G1 poetically lost it's cover this past Sunday. And, incidentally GIA offered me several free accompaniment books with my hymnal order.

    Of course we SHOULD be singing the Mass. We SHOULD be singing propers. Gregorian Chant SHOULD receive pride of place. The reality is, most parishes aren't ready for a cold turkey switch to Vatican II or the like. I don't think any one book is sufficient for any parish. So pick whichever contemporary hymnal that will make your pastor and congregation the happiest and then give the Parish Book of Chant to your choir if you can get away with it. I would have pushed for the Lumen Chrsiti Missal which offers all you need for the Mass and that could be supplemented by another book of popular hymns and songs. Alas we got G3 with readings (and no propers).

    [Happy to report that the one traditionally minded parish in town is looking at buying Vatican II]
  • Melofluent (Charles) wrote:
    Love to hear about that future from Fr. Chepponis and his peers at WLP/OCP.

    Charles, my friend, I think you’re giving me too much credit! Although I served as one of the five editors of Worship IV, and many of my compositions are published by GIA (as well as MorningStar and WLP), I am not employed by GIA Publications. Consequently, I do not set company policy or direction.

    However, my dealings with GIA over the years have proven to me that GIA is a company of integrity. I was honored to be part of the editorial team for Worship IV.

    I visit this CMAA forum daily, and have participated in a few discussions. I am happy to answer questions about Worship IV, but challenge what I occasionally perceive are inaccurate statements about the hymnal when I have the time and energy. But sometimes I wonder if I should even continue participating in this CMAA forum.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,233
    You're always appreciated, Fr. C!
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,637
    I echo chonak. Don't leave!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,494
    Stick around. You are a good source of information.

    There is not a perfect hymnal on the market. Every one of them has strengths and weaknesses. Buying a hymnal is always a compromise.
  • redsox1
    Posts: 197
    While it is not perfect (no hymnal could possibly be perfect,) Worship IV, in my opinion, is a fine hymnal. The texts based on the Gospels are particularly useful. I think the index for Propers (based on the Graduale Simplex) is a welcome addition, however I don't think it goes far enough. It's a start, however. Perhaps GIA could think about some sort of supplement for the Propers utilizing traditional and more contemporary musical forms. I think the new Masses settings (Chepponis and Guimont being the exceptions) are a bit weak, however, most of the revised settings including those by Proulx are included.

    W4 serves our community very well and has been very well-received. We're a parish of about 3200 families and we need to be responsive to the whole community. W4 is so much more complete than most hymnals out there. Nothing else would be adequate for us.

    Fr. Chepponis, I "third" the sentiment that you are very much appreciated! You continue to make such important contributions. I'm only sorry I didn't get the chance to make your acquaintance during my time in Greensburg. On a side note, your Jubilation Mass Gloria has been a big hit here!
  • For what it's worth, I have compared and written reviews for almost every (current) hymnal known to man, as I will be ordering about 1000 of them this fall. Some are a waste of paper, some are beautiful, but not a good fit for my parish. I even had to pay for some sample copies (really?). I'm not especially attracted to hymnals that don't have their accompaniment books finished yet, or that I have to "check back soon" for the music for the Communion Antiphon for next week. Love them or hate them, the "Big 3" have an excellent business model.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,335
    I have compared and written reviews for almost every (current) hymnal known to man


    Would you be so kind as to share that info?

    Also, have you looked at any hymnals only known to women?


    But sometimes I wonder if I should even continue participating in this CMAA forum.


    Stay, please.
    Don't leave me alone with these people!
    Thanked by 2Salieri Kathy
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,637
    WO,

    Who asked you to pay for sample copies?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,494
    I can answer that one. GIA charged me for samples of the pew and choir Worship IV hymnals. OCP sent samples free.
  • Wow, that's a surprise that GIA charged you. I got both of mine for free, as well as a backorder on the Oremos Cantando, which would probably suit us for bilingual liturgies. Did you speak to someone when you requested the copies? I just flat told them that I am comparing them to OCP, with favor towards starting afresh with them, and in the end we ended up with W4. While it is not perfect, it certainly has fit our needs, and in the end, others had a say over me. The pastor noted that G3 was a little more watered down, and that W4 seemed a bit more traditional-minded.
    Thanked by 1theloniouslopez
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,494
    The parish has been their customer for some time, since we have several hundred Ritual Song hymnals. Yes, I did talk to someone. I am pushing to buy Worship IV, but getting anything underway in my parish is a slow process. The Curia has nothing on us when it comes to inertia.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Fr. Jim et al,
    I'm mildly confused and surprised that it seems that my post may have been misconstrued as editorial or philosophical criticism of the business model of GIA and others. I took great pains to frame my observations as a historical POV to set up my point that the major publishers could adjust for a broader business model, nothing more, nothing less. I am not among those who've used (in my case OCP) for three decades who only see about 10% of usable content in the hymnal. If I'm guilty of anything, I employ likely 60-75% of the basic hymn/song/chant content over three of our twenty Masses in our four parish merge. Years ago, when HHHitchcock debuted ADOREMUS, I published a critique of it comparing its content to that of RITUALSONGS on my blog that exhaustively determined that the GIA product had much more to offer even a traditionally based congregation, save for the Mass settings.
    All that said, I don't believe that the big gun hymnals should ignore the emergence of these major "special needs" collections of AB, JMO, NJ, and RR et al as inconsequential to the future of hymnals, particularly when much of their content is "gratis" under the Commons. OCP's Unidos/United hymnal is a mediocre first step to accomodate a two vernacular parish situo. But it fails to satisfy (I know this directly from my musical leadership among the four parishes) both the English and Spanish needs. In the mother parish, I wouldn't sacrifice 20 years of repertoire building (Breaking Bread) when we added one Spanish Mass, so we have to deal with Flor y Canto (v3) at greater expense.
    Ergo, we are looking seriously at whether the subscription missal/perm or pulp hymnal model is fiscally worth it, not to mention morally suspect (tossing the Word each Advent.) But, if any of the Big 3 had in place a program whereby all the product they offer, with approvals, acknowledgements and rights in place, could be assembled according to the needs of a large order contingent (a diocese, a huge parish, etc.), I'd jump at the inconvenience of discerning the contents of that hymnal initially, so as to have a worthy product designed for the particular needs of my parish and its demographics. And you can bet that it will pay more attention to the conciliar documents than do any of the "all things to all people" big gun hymnals currently marketed.
    But none of this is directed as derision towards the big three, so add my voice to those asking you to bear with strange folk like me and remain. My conscience is clear as I've tried to further the participation of Haas and Ambrosetti here in the past, and am firmly against the banning of certain legitimite voices (Flowerday) herein, no matter how repugnant they may be to my CMAA peers.
    As we saw yesterday, NOW is not a time to part, but to come together and sort ourselves out and remind ourselves of first who we are, and then how much more we should celebrate in common as opposed to that which divides us.
  • We had to pay for Lumen Christi and Vatican II, I believe. I'm certain St. Augustine, Worship and Lead Me, Guide Me were free. If any others were paid for, my secretary didn't mention it.

    My reviews and comparisons are correspondence between my Pastor, committee, and myself, and I'm not in a position to publish that, Adam.
  • I suppose each of us can only speak from our own experiences.

    I can say that we used one of the big OCP hymnals when I started working for the Ordinary Form about a decade ago. I found it totally lacking in practically everything I needed each Sunday. I ended up creating my own "hymnal" for the parish made of loose-leaf sheets — all the items the OCP book lacked.

    Furthermore, I can attest to being a young Catholic in the 1990s (I was born in the 1980s). At the Parish we attended, there was one of the most commonly used GIA publications.

    I found the songs extremely damaging to my faith, even as a young person. The style of the songs I found silly, secular, and unfit for worship ("Sing a Simple Song Unto the Lord," — "Abba, You are the Potter, We are the clay" — "Let them come ... to the water," etc. I can't remember them all).

    Attending the Latin Mass was a completely different experience. The Gregorian chant was out of this world — beautiful ! The priests were so serious during Mass: they never even raised their eyes. Very reverent, very serious, prayerful, holy.

    I have no doubt the "Big 3" are raking in tons of money every week. However, I can say I found the musical style and theology of their "songs" very damaging. This was even as a small child, before I "knew anything."

    Just my 2 cents.
  • Jeffrey Tucker has written:

    There is a further problem of authority. There are all these established publishers and institutions that seem to say that what the choir is doing is perfectly fine within the structure of the ordinary form. If this music were really incompatible with the Roman Rite, why would 2/3 of American parishes subscribe to their publisher's misselettes? If these organizations were really promoting music that is contrary to the liturgical spirit, how is it that they attract thousands of people to their annual conventions and how is it that they are able to put out full-color glossy publications on the glories of music that is not so hot.

    The pastor should recall that Soviet Life was also a very beautiful publication, and that the collected works of Stalin were beautifully printed by Progress Publishers (top seller: "The ABCs of Dialectical Materialism"). Appearances can mask underlying decay.

    I believe that someday we will all wake up and wonder what the heck went wrong that for 40 years, the entire Catholic world lost track of the propers of the Mass, introduce silly songs into Mass, let the treasures of the Church rot in a closet, failed to teach the children to sing, let the organs fall into disrepair, and gave billions of dollars to institutions that were promoting everything but the music the Church. On that day, everyone is going to feel very silly and embarrassed.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160

    JMO, just for perspective's sake and not mentioned to be contensious, what you "attest" to is reflective to your intent and purpose. Your statement, " I found it totally lacking in practically everything I needed each Sunday.", does not speak authoritatively, but only anecdotally. You know me, I'm not speaking as a remnant hippy who's been through the whole curve. I can, for example, cite our parochial school's 8th grade teacher, extremely gifted teacher, younger than you by a stretch. She has on many occasions shared with me how certain of these genre songs have edified her personally. I know this because she'll ask me to arrange some of them for the 8th grade bell choir.
    I am still on the same page with CMAA personally. But, as has been mentioned here, there and everywhere, we can never assume that we speak for any minority or majority of the concerned folk with any certainty. We are entitled to think that our taste is more refined and more beneficial, but we need to be very careful in how we inculcate our preferences among the diverse demographics present in our congregations, yes? The example of the African vicar, newly assigned, offering his first Mass in a parish(OF) in Latin without preparation is proof of that caveat.
    And I regret to say that your reiteration of JTs analogy of LitMusComplex glossy product to Soviet Life is flawed in that it is an example of Godwin's Law. Peace.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Over at CCW's great blogsite Veronica Brandt has an article posted today relevant to this thread, "THERE IS NO SUCH THING as a perfect hymnbook or missal." She initially asks:
    Why would you try to make your own Missal/Hymnal for the Extraordinary Form when there’s the Campion Missal?

    And among other concerns and obstacles in a process many of us have likely done in our careers (rights, content quantity and quality, etc.) she adds:
    I could not subsidise the printing with sales, I made about thirty copies of a nearly 300 page hymnbook myself over the Christmas holidays. Another experience I was not keen to repeat. Mistakes in guillotining cannot be undone. And your average home laser printer is not made for printing book. And guillotines are very sharp.

    So, again, I ask: is the only remedy for the tension between condescending to the editorial tastes of any hymnal publisher, small or large, and meeting the particular spectrum of needs of a responsible parish pastor, musical staff and involved congregational clientele the imperitive to "pastische" a parish hymnal from scratch, and keep re-inventing the wheel, as it were?
    As long as publishers, whether you're a sole proprietor, mid-level (St. Michael/Adoremus/St. Augustine) or a BigGunThree, maintain the status quo of their own consultants, such as Fr. Chepponis or Thom Tomazek or Jerry Galipeau, and keep the content decisions in-house, parishes, extremely competent directors and pastors, and others (seminaries etc.) will be hostage to an outmoded and wholly unnecessary pre-20th century production paradigm. I don't know why cooperation and consolodation would threaten the income incentive of any publishers' interests.
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 456
    I can't remember them all


    Our Lord is merciful in that regard, isn't He?
    Thanked by 1Andrew Motyka
  • None of them.
  • I don't program the stuff I find damaging to my faith. I suggest you don't, either.

  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I don't program the stuff I find damaging to my faith. I suggest you don't, either.

    I'm puzzled about this statement, WO, could you elaborate?
    Grist for thought-which scenario would more damage one's faith of these two?
    1. You're going to Mass on vacation in a local church. The choir sings "Lord of the Dance." You're irritated at that choice.
    2. You're at another Mass and the choir is singing Tallis "If ye love me" sublimely and beautifully, and a local vagrant starts shouting "Praise the Lord" repeatedly during the motet. A cadre of ushers swarm around the person and physically remove him/her from the church and call the police.
    Those examples are not meant as challenging to WO's admonition.