Corpus Christi Watershed website is now subscription-based
  • Gaudete39
    Posts: 3
    $4.95 monthly subscription

    $57.95 annual subscription
    Thanked by 1MatthewRoth
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 515
    Someone not associated with Corpu$ Chri$ti Water$hed contacted me Thursday to notify me that all of my posts (approximately 70,000 words) had been deleted from the site. Nice. I was blocked from their Facebook page months ago but only one of my posts (the last one) had been deleted from the website. Fortunately they are all archived, as are many of the PDF resources from the "St. Jean de Lalande Library of Rare Books."
  • wspinnenwspinnen
    Posts: 36
    Classic 2026 to have to pay $5 to read one article or pay $60 for access to a few. Of course, I've become less and less impressed with their work for years, and this is just the nail in the coffin lid.
  • @wspinnen I agree completely. Also the articles started to become less and less academic and more and more a space to vent about things they didn't like. I think that's what started to turn me away generally speaking, I was tired of reading complaining all the time. In a world where there is already so much negativity one would hope that in Catholic Spaces we could bring a half full perspective... although at times it is good and necessary to bring up problems and issues--but when you make it your whole existence one certainly questions where the Spirit of Christian Joy is.

    The good news is that most of what we used from them is also on Musica Sacra.

    @FSSPmusic did not realize that was you. Those were some of my favorite articles.
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 811
    Where will we get our reminders that the Brebeuf Hymnal is the greatest hymnal ever created now???
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 1,110
    I also noticed that the blog gradually offered fewer and fewer interesting articles. In particular, the claim that the only correct way of performing Gregorian chant is that of the 1908 Editio Vaticana became rather tiresome. And then complaining that experts in the field of chant do not take you seriously or are unwilling to engage in debate with you… Now that everything has disappeared behind a paywall, that is of course even less likely to happen.

    Still, it is a pity that one now has to pay for access to a rich treasure of old chant books and hymnals – all of them in the public domain!
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 751
    Classic 2026 to have to pay $5 to read one article or pay $60 for access to a few. Of course, I've become less and less impressed with their work for years, and this is just the nail in the coffin lid.

    The gist of what I read in the email was they’re $2000 in debt because someone got busy and dropped the ball on planning and implementing their annual fundraiser, so now rather than take accountability and plan and implement a fundraiser, everyone has to pay to have access. The fund development side of me shakes my head at this. I think this will do more harm to their mission than good.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,287
    all of them in the public domain!
    true, but he did the work of scanning them.

    I supported him monthly for years as I was first getting started. He was like a light house of beauty in the often rough seas of the novus ordo, and the free resources were invaluable to me as I was figuring all this liturgy stuff out. It's a pity that other noobs won't have that free treasury at their disposal anymore. Some of the resources can be found elsewhere, sure, but the articles cannot.

    Like so many others, I have found the tonal shift of the blog rather frustrating, and my readership has dropped to only occasionally to see if I've missed anything important. But the severe condemnations of other (legitimately sacral) musical styles and interpretations of chant were a major turn off for me. I'm sure that people will vote with their feet, so to speak, and that will reveal very much. I'd be inclined to subscribe again if I had any indication that things would go back to a more helpful/neutral tone.

    In his defense, he really has done a TON of work to make so many treasures available and known that would otherwise not be. And that's a lot of work. I have only scanned a handful of books in my life, and I'm not keen to repeat the experience. He also has a family to feed, so I get that, too. And web-hosting fees are not nothing. My website has started to support its own existence, thanks be to God, but it didn't for a long time, so I understand the struggle intimately, and I don't want to condemn him for putting some things behind a paywall. That said, I think he's shooting himself in the foot by making everything exclusively behind the paywall. A hybrid model would serve everyone's interests much more (to say nothing of the intended aim of the ministry itself), I am quite certain.
  • Charles_Weaver
    Posts: 217
    He is probably taking a gamble on making people pay for something that has been free for many years. But the success of platforms like Substack in recent years suggest that he might succeed.

    I'm sorry so many of you feel the blog has gone downhill. I think my articles are pretty good, although I don't post very often and have been more focused on Sacred Music lately. And I liked our series with Patrick very much. But anyway, I feel like I owe Jeff a lot, even though I disagree with him on the history of the Vatican edition and Solesmes. I have also found him personally very warm and friendly, and I have seen firsthand the good work he has done in two successive parishes. I think the site has been very, very important to the quality of sacred music for many years, and I wish him all the best in this venture and will continue to pray for him.

    Let's not forget that we also have a subscriber model here at the CMAA, and we are always looking to increase membership!
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,682
    It should be noted that Jeff says the decision was taken by the board, and that he is not himself a member of the board.
    Thanked by 1rich_enough
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 515
    And who is on the board? Aren't non-profits required to disclose that information?
    Thanked by 1MatthewRoth
  • true, but he did the work of scanning them.

    Perhaps for most, but not all. One of the books that I've contributed for that library I paid for both the book and paid+arranged for the scanning. All Jeff had to do was upload the PDF that I sent him. In the case of my other book, CCW did pay for the scanning, but I mailed my book to be destructively scanned with the specific understanding (which I communicated) that I was only doing this so that the public at large could see the rare book. I got nothing monetarily, and for my own usage would have been better off with my book intact. It's one thing for Jeff to put the books from his own personal collection behind a paywall, it's another to do the same with books contributed by those who were making a personal sacrifice for the benefit of the sacred music community.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,569

    I also noticed that the blog gradually offered fewer and fewer interesting articles. In particular, the claim that the only correct way of performing Gregorian chant is that of the 1908 Editio Vaticana became rather tiresome.


    well as Patrick notes now that debate is gone.


    It's one thing for Jeff to put the books from his own personal collection behind a paywall, it's another to do the same with books contributed by those who were making a personal sacrifice for the benefit of the sacred music community


    Jeff definitely didn’t scan every edition or contribute only books that he purchased. But what he did do, and what would lead me to use words that should get me banned, is he would replace the scan sometimes with an inferior version. Thé Potiron benediction accompaniments from 1934 are in a decent scan that I have on my computer. But if the organist forgets something, the only available version is a different scan with very different recto-verso page lighting with a comb binding visible. That is wicked. And he also inserts his own stuff into the scan to make it not as useful and to advertise.


    It should be noted that Jeff says the decision was taken by the board, and that he is not himself a member of the board.


    It’s not something that anyone would pay for in no small part because Jeff is a difficult person to work with.

    Substack works because you have a lot of free posts. Someone with that will have more subscribers and therefore a bigger general reach. Only people who really care will pay. And that’s fine.

    A subscription model does not work with anything open-source or anti-copyright in its general ethos with community contributions.


    The board of directors recently made a decision. It came to their attention that a handful of loyal, generous donors have been funding everything for all these years—while the rest of the community consumes what’s offered without extending support. The argument was made that it was unjust for the burden to fall on the shoulders of only a few donors, since we receive millions of visits.


    Like, yeah. Even people with subscriber content offer tiers including free stuff. One popular model is posting in advance on a site like Patreon, then to the general public. The transit and urbanist creator NotJustBikes does this.

    I’m considering writing to the abbot of Triors to get the license for those recordings revoked. The list being available freely on the Kyriale page is the only way to access the Vimeo links since Jeff clogged the channel.

    That resource was invaluable for many groups particularly my own since we are deeply in the Fontgombault part of the Solesmes tradition. Now it’s gone? That’s not the deal, and I think that revoking the deal to use the recordings is only just.


    The gist of what I read in the email was they’re $2000 in debt because someone got busy and dropped the ball on planning and implementing their annual fundraiser, so now rather than take accountability and plan and implement a fundraiser, everyone has to pay to have access. The fund development side of me shakes my head at this. I think this will do more harm to their mission than good.


    Who is on their board and where is their tax info?

    I would be happy to help take this on if it was a matter of “no more Corpus Christi Watershed or we have to charge” and it would be a massive undertaking since the site is structurally messed up (lots of redirects and 404s and things missing context) and you simply cannot have the nasty arguments going down. Everyone here knows that I’m a homer for Mocquereau but as someone elsewhere put it: my defenses are reasonable (in no small part thanks to Dr. Weaver). Anyway, it’s a real loss that now everything is behind a hard paywall.
    Thanked by 2FSSPmusic tomjaw
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,569
    Also frankly the number of people who personally have beef with Jeff (almost always instigated by Jeff mind you) who is nevertheless the only public face of CCW and remains so suggests that the board doesn’t actually act in the organization’s best interests.
    Thanked by 3FSSPmusic davido tomjaw
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 751
    And who is on the board? Aren't non-profits required to disclose that information?

    I can’t speak for the US, but in Canada all legally registered non-profits and charities has their tax filing information, including their executive board members listed on the Revenue Canada wed site for the general public. I would imagine the US has something similar. If not, one should be able to go through the proper disclosure of information process and obtain it.
    Thanked by 2FSSPmusic tomjaw
  • @MatthewRoth Maybe Musica Sacra can just get those permissions instead, and we beef up the resource page like CCWatershed had... Ie.... if CCwatershed is no more, lets take the stuff we like and put it here. Maybe this is a make lemonade if you have lemons situation?
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,569
    Well, that’s also fine with me. I just fundamentally object to the revocation that happened essentially without warning overnight.

    Also yes the board composition is public. It is on form 990, but CCW’s last available form 990 is from 2012.
    Thanked by 2FSSPmusic tomjaw
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,272
    Many moons ago I found CC Watershed really useful and sent in money as I could.
    No thanks now.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen tomjaw
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,620
    The State of Texas lives down to its reputation of chiseling at the state level (Texas may profess a love of federalism, but historically that's intended for the state to refuse the federal AND it constituent municipal gummints): if you want to pay $1 per search, you can do an online business entity search for this non-profit corporation. (Something that is free in other jurisdictions).

    https://www.sos.state.tx.us/corp/sosda/index.shtml

    Normally, non-profits in many states have annual report filings confirming the membership of the board and chief officers, et cet., and if filings are not made for a few years, a corporation can be dissolved passively (without notice) for non-compliance. It's a problem for small non-profit corporations that don't have a governance process for this kind of thing.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,569
    Yeah but there should be federal filings too, no? I don’t understand that.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,620
    CCW has filed Form 990-Ns (<$50K in annual income) with the IRS for years from 2025 going back several years.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,569
    Where are they? They’re not available on the usual databases.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,569
    OK, so they're on the IRS site

    Great

    but the state of TX lists their address as being in CA, not in TX, which is what the IRS has, as of this year, Jeff O doesn't live in either place, and he's the principal officer, but not on the board—so who made this decision?

    He's blaming someone other than himself…but the board's composition is private? This is insulting.
  • I was once told that the French had a meeting to figure out how to get people to pay for something that was already free, and in this meeting they invented bottled water. I presume this story, as it relates to bottled water, is apocryphal. But for $5 a month you can now access CC Watershed.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,247
    The composers who contributed to the Chabanel Psalms project may be surprised if their work becomes hidden behind a paywall.

    I tend to doubt that fussing about CCW's board is worthwhile. Small non-profit corporations that are founded to support one person's projects tend to have small boards that are sympathetic to the founder.

    The short-form IRS filings indicate that the organization takes in under $50,000 a year, so you can conclude that nobody connected with the organization is getting a big salary out of it.
    Thanked by 3Liam tomjaw davido
  • probe
    Posts: 160
    When I volunteered to lead a parish chant group last autumn, CCW was my first discovery after "Let's Sing with the Pope" from PIMS. I was happy to donate small amounts a couple of times and learn a lot about the Kyriales and the Propers. Since then I have found this forum and then other sources like Source & Summit, Neumz, Square Notes app, gregorian-chant-hymns.com, gregobase, YouTube, etc, and have learnt GABC. $5 a month isn't much, I pay €5/mth to use the Cantamus.app; but I don't think an ongoing subscription model fits what I need now which is fairly selective searching. My thanks to Jeff anyway.
  • davido
    Posts: 1,206
    I wonder how much USCCB psalm royalties figure into CCW’s operating costs
    Thanked by 1irishtenor
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,545
    There's a lot going on. But certainly, part of the mix is the recent death of Jeff's bishop supporter., Bishop Gracida.

    It seems to me to be a time for personal outreach, if anyone here knows Jeff on that level.
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 751
    $5 a month isn't much,

    That’s $5 USD. It’s $6.80 CAD/month. It all adds up. You’d be amazed at how much you can trim a budget by saving $0.10 here and $0.25 there. The door swings both ways. I’m not cheap, but my Latin Mass community’s music budget couldn’t even afford to buy a music stand that worked properly.

    It also means schola members won’t have easy access to the chant propers for practicing without paying for a monthly subscription.
    Thanked by 2Liam probe
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,569

    I tend to doubt that fussing about CCW's board is worthwhile. Small non-profit corporations that are founded to support one person's projects tend to have small boards that are sympathetic to the founder.


    Chonak you say this but also point out that the Chabanel psalms contributors (and others) now have work behind a paywall. Jeff needs to take accountability, or he should tell us whom we can contact, because there are massive legal implications here. I don’t think that anyone has suggested that there Is a scheme of getting rich here, we’re just angry that there has been a complete change in their operation without warning.

    But if Jeff is the only named person and is the one making the announcement, then he deserves the blame.


    It also means schola members won’t have easy access to the chant propers for practicing without paying for a monthly subscription.


    And so many other things where it’s easier to send links to the post itself containing a link to some file: video, sound, PDF.
    Thanked by 1FSSPmusic
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,247
    The chant propers are available from several sites.

    Windsor Latin Mass:
    http://www.windsorlatinmass.org/latin/chant.htm

    The Institute of Chrost the King:
    https://institute-christ-king.org/resources/sacred-music

    and, of course, CMAA whose music eesource list includes the Liber Usualis and the Graduale Romanum 1961 and 1974:

    https://churchmusicassociation.org/resources/resource-list-complete/



  • Liam
    Posts: 5,620
    I suspect it triggers people as well because it reinforces the cumulative experience of how much of their work is subject to arbitrary decisions that are announced as fait accompli - this is just from an unexpected rather than the usual quarter.
    Thanked by 2FSSPmusic davido
  • tandrews
    Posts: 234
    Went and downloaded his arrangement of the Pachelbel Canon before it got locked up. Glad I printed out the Dupre chant accompaniment PDF a couple months ago too.

    I never used CCW that much, but the St. Lawrence Center used it often, perhaps in part that Jeff's brother was a deacon at the Center at the time.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,247
    Matthew, when you write that Jeff needs to tell us whom we can contact, what definition of "us" do you have in mind? Are you one of the composers affected?

  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,569
    The Triors videos and Jeff’s supplemental recordings and all sorts of other materials are not! We have been over this!
    Thanked by 1FSSPmusic
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,681
    I asked him to take my Psalms down a decade or more ago - they’re awful and were written at a time when settings were sparse. He said that removing PDFs from the site would require a vote from the Board of Directors.

    This is not a sane or stable organization and people should stop giving it money.
    Thanked by 1FSSPmusic
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,569

    He said that removing PDFs from the site would require a vote from the Board of Directors.


    That’s ridiculous. It might not be worth the effort to get a lawyer, but they’re not his: they’re your settings, with a licensed text. He doesn’t get to distribute them indefinitely if you don’t allow it.

    Chonak, I don’t understand why you are trying to chart the course you are trying to chart and to what end. Jeff blames the board for all of these decisions. Who is on the board then, Jeff? It is not a dead end or an immaterial question. I’m furious that the easiest way to find the licensed Triors videos is now paywalled: surely that was not part of the deal.

    The only positive thing is that now hardly anyone will read his rants where he borrows from various blogs and forums such as this one, Facebook, etc. to comment without giving the right of reply to people such as myself.

    But there was a lot of good stuff there, and I don’t blame people who feel burned or otherwise mistreated.
    Thanked by 1FSSPmusic
  • I'm curious where frequent contributors have stood through all this. Were they given warning in advance? Were they consulted before a decision was made? Are they being offered any financial compensation for their contributions, past of future? Do the contributors to the blog even know anything about this "board of directors"?

    At the very least, I know that Charles Weaver, Patrick Torsell, Veronica Brandt, and Daniel Tucker are "real" musicians who do good work outside of merely what is represented on CCW (and most of them are on this forum). I assume the same for most of the other contributors, although I may not have crossed paths with them elsewhere, but I assume many here have.
  • probe
    Posts: 160
    @SponsaChristi I have to confess my mental model of how it would work is that the director pays one sub and distributes the material privately to the members. In my case, we only use public domain material such as one gets on gregobase. I hope that any copyrighted material would be clearly labelled as such with information on licensing terms, eg a price for 10 copies.
    Thanked by 1FSSPmusic
  • Charles_Weaver
    Posts: 217
    @OMM, speaking as a contributor, Jeff told me by text/phone the other day that this decision had been made. He wanted to see if I had a problem with my articles being used as part of a subscription model. I don't have a problem and told him as much.

    I have never been paid for CCW posts, nor would I want to be paid. In fact, I've been sending them $5 a month for many years, as JO has long requested in his email newsletter. I will probably roll that over to a subscription not only because I enjoy reading the blog (and occasionally contributing) but because I find the Lalande library incredibly useful. Sure, a lot of that stuff is available elsewhere. If I were part of the board or part of the decision-making team (I am not), I would probably vote to keep that section free, and I would also have advised them to navigate some of the IP concerns brought up here with regard to composers before making this move. Maybe it would have been better to move the CCW blog content to Substack or something. Whatever CCW does, I don't have an animus against them and hope they will work it out to everyone's satisfaction.
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 789
    Let me add this: I offered my English Psalm settings at the very beginning, assuming they would always be accessible. I should have known better. I was never allowed access to edit my work, and when I created a new edition elsewhere was told I could not get them removed from the Chabanel site. I have never been contacted by the organization with any offer of compensation. I'm glad I never followed up on JO's offer of a dedicated page on their site. It all makes money-grubbing OCP, et al., and copyright-obsessed USCCB look positively benevolent.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen FSSPmusic
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,569
    What license you used matters. However, not all contributors had a license displayed, and it’s certainly bad form to not withdraw a work at someone’s request.

    So folks need to figure out what license was used.

    If you did not license the work in a way that allows CCW to always use the work under the same license, then I would secure the copyright via registration (you already own it but need registration for damages) and then go that way to get it removed.
    Thanked by 1FSSPmusic
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,247
    MatthewRoth asks:
    Chonak, I don’t understand why you are trying to chart the course you are trying to chart and to what end.


    If you were to see a list of the current board members, you could express your thoughts to them on this policy change by CCW, as you have every right to do. But I don't think they would have any formal obligation to respond. So I doubt you'd get any benefit from it.

    Moreover, CMAA is grateful to Jeff and CCW for the collaborations we've had, such as their production of a wonderful TV documentary about our Sacred Music Colloquium, and Jeff's production of demo videos for our book Simple English Propers. I wouldn't want anyone to use the Forum as a site for conducting some kind of campaign against CCW's decisions, even though I think that paywalling their site will likely reduce the good influence that they have.
    Thanked by 1Charles_Weaver
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 515
    Their 2012 board is listed on p. 8 of Form 990 here: James Ridley, Kevin Allen, John Ostrowski, Lina Sims, and secretary Claire Ridley. That's not helpful for 2026. This site shows Corpus Christi Watershed c/o Charles Coulombe. He would not appear to be the same Jeff Ostrowski found in the Epstein files.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,257
    I think my articles are pretty good

    Actually, Charlie, yours were the articles I was most likely to read. I used the books quite a bit, particularly for organ accompaniments. And the chant recordings were a go-to for my schola.

    For years, Jeff has been an Energizer Bunny of Sacred Music. But his writings (and the willfulness of the hymns in the Campion Missal, 1st ed...part of my working environment) have struck me as neuroatypical. I don't think this will be a good decision business-wise. But sorry, we have no right to Free Stuff, even if I like and even need Free Stuff as much as the next guy. The free market will sort this all out. Valuable resources that CCW doesn't own will be concatenated. People with rights issues involved in this will work it out in court, or not. It's a better use of my time to pray about this than to fuss about it.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,569
    If you were to see a list of the current board members, you could express your thoughts to them on this policy change by CCW, as you have every right to do. But I don't think they would have any formal obligation to respond. So I doubt you'd get any benefit from it.


    Well, that's just, IDK, goofy.

    They might not have a formal obligation to respond, but that's not the dang point, although I think that some of you should hire an IP attorney to resolve your claims, and I think that in justice Jeff should make sure that anyone who donated material to him, or time, or whatever, gets to host it wherever they want, since the rug was pulled out from all of us.

    I repeat:
    Jeff blames the board for all of these decisions. Who is on the board then, Jeff? It is not a dead end or an immaterial question


    Those people need to hold themselves accountable, or I'm going to keep blaming Jeff.

    Yeah, Dr. Weaver's articles were the only ones that I would read, but I would recommend them often.

    But sorry, we have no right to Free Stuff, even if I like and even need Free Stuff as much as the next guy.


    I don't think that I agree. We have a right for stuff offered for free with the expectation that it would be free to remain free.

    People with rights issues involved in this will work it out in court, or not.


    At no small cost, which is also distressing.

    I wouldn't want anyone to use the Forum as a site for conducting some kind of campaign against CCW's decisions, even though I think that paywalling their site will likely reduce the good influence that they have.


    I think that you're not getting something: there's no real good way through to Jeff (since he unilaterally burned bridges), there's no good way to anyone other than him who might be talked out of this, and Jeff used his own site to badger us while most of us sat silently just taking it, because we thought that there was some value in his other offerings. There also aren't many places online to talk about this stuff. I'm perfectly happy to keep it concentrated in one thread.
    Thanked by 1FSSPmusic
  • Ralph BednarzRalph Bednarz
    Posts: 502
    If anyone wants to go to law with you over your tunic, hand him your cloak as well. 41 Should anyone press you into service for one mile,[z] go with him for two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks of you, and do not turn your back on one who wants to borrow.
  • PaxTecum
    Posts: 345
    I think that I have used resources from that site enough times over the years for free that I would like to sign up as a subscriber even if i never look at an article (i rarely ever did to begin with).