Corpus Christi Watershed website is now subscription-based
  • Gaudete39
    Posts: 3
    $4.95 monthly subscription

    $57.95 annual subscription
    Thanked by 1MatthewRoth
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 514
    Someone not associated with Corpu$ Chri$ti Water$hed contacted me Thursday to notify me that all of my posts (approximately 70,000 words) had been deleted from the site. Nice. I was blocked from their Facebook page months ago but only one of my posts (the last one) had been deleted from the website. Fortunately they are all archived, as are many of the PDF resources from the "St. Jean de Lalande Library of Rare Books."
  • wspinnenwspinnen
    Posts: 36
    Classic 2026 to have to pay $5 to read one article or pay $60 for access to a few. Of course, I've become less and less impressed with their work for years, and this is just the nail in the coffin lid.
  • @wspinnen I agree completely. Also the articles started to become less and less academic and more and more a space to vent about things they didn't like. I think that's what started to turn me away generally speaking, I was tired of reading complaining all the time. In a world where there is already so much negativity one would hope that in Catholic Spaces we could bring a half full perspective... although at times it is good and necessary to bring up problems and issues--but when you make it your whole existence one certainly questions where the Spirit of Christian Joy is.

    The good news is that most of what we used from them is also on Musica Sacra.

    @FSSPmusic did not realize that was you. Those were some of my favorite articles.
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 811
    Where will we get our reminders that the Brebeuf Hymnal is the greatest hymnal ever created now???
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 1,110
    I also noticed that the blog gradually offered fewer and fewer interesting articles. In particular, the claim that the only correct way of performing Gregorian chant is that of the 1908 Editio Vaticana became rather tiresome. And then complaining that experts in the field of chant do not take you seriously or are unwilling to engage in debate with you… Now that everything has disappeared behind a paywall, that is of course even less likely to happen.

    Still, it is a pity that one now has to pay for access to a rich treasure of old chant books and hymnals – all of them in the public domain!
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 750
    Classic 2026 to have to pay $5 to read one article or pay $60 for access to a few. Of course, I've become less and less impressed with their work for years, and this is just the nail in the coffin lid.

    The gist of what I read in the email was they’re $2000 in debt because someone got busy and dropped the ball on planning and implementing their annual fundraiser, so now rather than take accountability and plan and implement a fundraiser, everyone has to pay to have access. The fund development side of me shakes my head at this. I think this will do more harm to their mission than good.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,287
    all of them in the public domain!
    true, but he did the work of scanning them.

    I supported him monthly for years as I was first getting started. He was like a light house of beauty in the often rough seas of the novus ordo, and the free resources were invaluable to me as I was figuring all this liturgy stuff out. It's a pity that other noobs won't have that free treasury at their disposal anymore. Some of the resources can be found elsewhere, sure, but the articles cannot.

    Like so many others, I have found the tonal shift of the blog rather frustrating, and my readership has dropped to only occasionally to see if I've missed anything important. But the severe condemnations of other (legitimately sacral) musical styles and interpretations of chant were a major turn off for me. I'm sure that people will vote with their feet, so to speak, and that will reveal very much. I'd be inclined to subscribe again if I had any indication that things would go back to a more helpful/neutral tone.

    In his defense, he really has done a TON of work to make so many treasures available and known that would otherwise not be. And that's a lot of work. I have only scanned a handful of books in my life, and I'm not keen to repeat the experience. He also has a family to feed, so I get that, too. And web-hosting fees are not nothing. My website has started to support its own existence, thanks be to God, but it didn't for a long time, so I understand the struggle intimately, and I don't want to condemn him for putting some things behind a paywall. That said, I think he's shooting himself in the foot by making everything exclusively behind the paywall. A hybrid model would serve everyone's interests much more (to say nothing of the intended aim of the ministry itself), I am quite certain.
  • Charles_Weaver
    Posts: 216
    He is probably taking a gamble on making people pay for something that has been free for many years. But the success of platforms like Substack in recent years suggest that he might succeed.

    I'm sorry so many of you feel the blog has gone downhill. I think my articles are pretty good, although I don't post very often and have been more focused on Sacred Music lately. And I liked our series with Patrick very much. But anyway, I feel like I owe Jeff a lot, even though I disagree with him on the history of the Vatican edition and Solesmes. I have also found him personally very warm and friendly, and I have seen firsthand the good work he has done in two successive parishes. I think the site has been very, very important to the quality of sacred music for many years, and I wish him all the best in this venture and will continue to pray for him.

    Let's not forget that we also have a subscriber model here at the CMAA, and we are always looking to increase membership!
    Thanked by 2tomjaw a_f_hawkins
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,682
    It should be noted that Jeff says the decision was taken by the board, and that he is not himself a member of the board.
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 514
    And who is on the board? Aren't non-profits required to disclose that information?
    Thanked by 1MatthewRoth
  • true, but he did the work of scanning them.

    Perhaps for most, but not all. One of the books that I've contributed for that library I paid for both the book and paid+arranged for the scanning. All Jeff had to do was upload the PDF that I sent him. In the case of my other book, CCW did pay for the scanning, but I mailed my book to be destructively scanned with the specific understanding (which I communicated) that I was only doing this so that the public at large could see the rare book. I got nothing monetarily, and for my own usage would have been better off with my book intact. It's one thing for Jeff to put the books from his own personal collection behind a paywall, it's another to do the same with books contributed by those who were making a personal sacrifice for the benefit of the sacred music community.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,564

    I also noticed that the blog gradually offered fewer and fewer interesting articles. In particular, the claim that the only correct way of performing Gregorian chant is that of the 1908 Editio Vaticana became rather tiresome.


    well as Patrick notes now that debate is gone.


    It's one thing for Jeff to put the books from his own personal collection behind a paywall, it's another to do the same with books contributed by those who were making a personal sacrifice for the benefit of the sacred music community


    Jeff definitely didn’t scan every edition or contribute only books that he purchased. But what he did do, and what would lead me to use words that should get me banned, is he would replace the scan sometimes with an inferior version. Thé Potiron benediction accompaniments from 1934 are in a decent scan that I have on my computer. But if the organist forgets something, the only available version is a different scan with very different recto-verso page lighting with a comb binding visible. That is wicked. And he also inserts his own stuff into the scan to make it not as useful and to advertise.


    It should be noted that Jeff says the decision was taken by the board, and that he is not himself a member of the board.


    It’s not something that anyone would pay for in no small part because Jeff is a difficult person to work with.

    Substack works because you have a lot of free posts. Someone with that will have more subscribers and therefore a bigger general reach. Only people who really care will pay. And that’s fine.

    A subscription model does not work with anything open-source or anti-copyright in its general ethos with community contributions.


    The board of directors recently made a decision. It came to their attention that a handful of loyal, generous donors have been funding everything for all these years—while the rest of the community consumes what’s offered without extending support. The argument was made that it was unjust for the burden to fall on the shoulders of only a few donors, since we receive millions of visits.


    Like, yeah. Even people with subscriber content offer tiers including free stuff. One popular model is posting in advance on a site like Patreon, then to the general public. The transit and urbanist creator NotJustBikes does this.

    I’m considering writing to the abbot of Triors to get the license for those recordings revoked. The list being available freely on the Kyriale page is the only way to access the Vimeo links since Jeff clogged the channel.

    That resource was invaluable for many groups particularly my own since we are deeply in the Fontgombault part of the Solesmes tradition. Now it’s gone? That’s not the deal, and I think that revoking the deal to use the recordings is only just.


    The gist of what I read in the email was they’re $2000 in debt because someone got busy and dropped the ball on planning and implementing their annual fundraiser, so now rather than take accountability and plan and implement a fundraiser, everyone has to pay to have access. The fund development side of me shakes my head at this. I think this will do more harm to their mission than good.


    Who is on their board and where is their tax info?

    I would be happy to help take this on if it was a matter of “no more Corpus Christi Watershed or we have to charge” and it would be a massive undertaking since the site is structurally messed up (lots of redirects and 404s and things missing context) and you simply cannot have the nasty arguments going down. Everyone here knows that I’m a homer for Mocquereau but as someone elsewhere put it: my defenses are reasonable (in no small part thanks to Dr. Weaver). Anyway, it’s a real loss that now everything is behind a hard paywall.
    Thanked by 2FSSPmusic tomjaw
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,564
    Also frankly the number of people who personally have beef with Jeff (almost always instigated by Jeff mind you) who is nevertheless the only public face of CCW and remains so suggests that the board doesn’t actually act in the organization’s best interests.
    Thanked by 3FSSPmusic davido tomjaw
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 750
    And who is on the board? Aren't non-profits required to disclose that information?

    I can’t speak for the US, but in Canada all legally registered non-profits and charities has their tax filing information, including their executive board members listed on the Revenue Canada wed site for the general public. I would imagine the US has something similar. If not, one should be able to go through the proper disclosure of information process and obtain it.
    Thanked by 2FSSPmusic tomjaw
  • @MatthewRoth Maybe Musica Sacra can just get those permissions instead, and we beef up the resource page like CCWatershed had... Ie.... if CCwatershed is no more, lets take the stuff we like and put it here. Maybe this is a make lemonade if you have lemons situation?
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,564
    Well, that’s also fine with me. I just fundamentally object to the revocation that happened essentially without warning overnight.

    Also yes the board composition is public. It is on form 990, but CCW’s last available form 990 is from 2012.
    Thanked by 2FSSPmusic tomjaw
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,272
    Many moons ago I found CC Watershed really useful and sent in money as I could.
    No thanks now.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen tomjaw
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,619
    The State of Texas lives down to its reputation of chiseling at the state level (Texas may profess a love of federalism, but historically that's intended for the state to refuse the federal AND it constituent municipal gummints): if you want to pay $1 per search, you can do an online business entity search for this non-profit corporation. (Something that is free in other jurisdictions).

    https://www.sos.state.tx.us/corp/sosda/index.shtml

    Normally, non-profits in many states have annual report filings confirming the membership of the board and chief officers, et cet., and if filings are not made for a few years, a corporation can be dissolved passively (without notice) for non-compliance. It's a problem for small non-profit corporations that don't have a governance process for this kind of thing.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,564
    Yeah but there should be federal filings too, no? I don’t understand that.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,619
    CCW has filed Form 990-Ns (<$50K in annual income) with the IRS for years from 2025 going back several years.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,564
    Where are they? They’re not available on the usual databases.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,564
    OK, so they're on the IRS site

    Great

    but the state of TX lists their address as being in CA, not in TX, which is what the IRS has, as of this year, Jeff O doesn't live in either place, and he's the principal officer, but not on the board—so who made this decision?

    He's blaming someone other than himself…but the board's composition is private? This is insulting.
  • I was once told that the French had a meeting to figure out how to get people to pay for something that was already free, and in this meeting they invented bottled water. I presume this story, as it relates to bottled water, is apocryphal. But for $5 a month you can now access CC Watershed.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,243
    The composers who contributed to the Chabanel Psalms project may be surprised if their work becomes hidden behind a paywall.

    I tend to doubt that fussing about CCW's board is worthwhile. Small non-profit corporations that are founded to support one person's projects tend to have small boards that are sympathetic to the founder.

    The short-form IRS filings indicate that the organization takes in under $50,000 a year, so you can conclude that nobody connected with the organization is getting a big salary out of it.
    Thanked by 1Liam