When does priest/director interaction become micromanagement?
  • I am a longtime music minister (cantor, pianist, former director) who has finally left music ministry after many months of frustration. Our pastor currently denies our very competent, talented director the ability to choose appropriate hymns for the choir. He decided that the congregation was tired of hearing the same singers every weekend, and despite not having adequate musical coverage for weekend masses, has made a rule that a singer may only participate musically in one mass. In an attempt to have children’s choirs cover the main mass, the children, who are dependent on parents to bring them, do not consistently show up to provide adequate support. I was not the only competent musician in the shrinking adult choir. I have discussed the situation with the pastor, who says every hymn is his responsibility, and then he complained he has too much to do and no time. I have suggested trusting his director, who he hired himself, and the musicians, who by the way kept the music going for months between director hires (not once, but twice in the past 4 years.) Has anyone else experienced this? What did you do? I am out now because the frustration and stress was affecting my spiritual health, but I still care deeply, and I’m hoping my absence will speak volumes.
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 694
    I’ve experienced worse on account of being a woman with a full range, but low tessitura that gives some tenors a run for their money.

    I have learned that sometimes you just have to let natural consequences do their thing and hope people learn from their mistakes. I have far greater things to stress about than a volunteer ministry position.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,437
    He needs to back off
    Thanked by 2monahartselle tomjaw
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,570
    The pastor gets to eat the soup he is cooking.
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 112
    "...every hymn is his responsibility," How about the propers? Why would he care so much about hymns when the first choice in the GIRM are the propers?

    As far as hearing the same singers every week, maybe he's subtly trying to exclude less-than-beautiful voices? If a cantor is good, why should anyone object to hearing a good, professional voice at more than one Mass?
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 694
    As far as hearing the same singers every week, maybe he's subtly trying to exclude less-than-beautiful voices?

    Maybe, but something seems off given the high director turnover rate.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,234
    “And some people get tired of the homilist every week.” lol
  • PaxMelodious
    Posts: 482
    the pastor, who says every hymn is his responsibility


    Every hymn, every ordinary, every proper IS his responsibility.

    If you have a problem with that, you will fundamentally have a problem with working in any Catholic church role.

    Yes, some choose to delegate. It's nice when it happens. There are certain practical issues when they don't. But they are not required to do so. And we non-clergy have no right to expect it.
    Thanked by 1a_f_hawkins
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,437
    Then don’t hire a DM.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw davido
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,431
    I mean, if it's clearly set out at the get-go that the priest will be making all selections of hymnody, then folks can choose to play by those rules or not. I might be able to work under those circumstances if the priest is adept at such a task. Is he doing a decent job of selecting hymnody?

    His being the one to assign cantor/choir Mass dates and times seems a little funky, but is he doing a decent job of it? Are you suggesting that the children's choir is not suited to the Mass times they are being assigned? Maybe this isn't possible, but perhaps you could inquire what criteria he uses to assign Masses to this or that singer/group.
  • DrJS
    Posts: 16
    The "one Mass per weekend per singer" rule sounds like mismanagement to me. I wonder if the current director could gently suggest to the priest that having the children's choir sing at the main Mass every week, while a worthy goal, takes years of program building and education to accomplish. The same could be said for a large enough adult choral program for multiple groups in rotation.
    Unfortunately, micromanagement and mismanagement from the priest creates an impossible situation for the DM. The interference prevents success, and any failures fall on the DM. This in turn creates the revolving door of a DM position you describe.
    You did the right thing by speaking with the priest. If he doesn't listen to good counsel, then it was indeed time to move on.


    Thanked by 2tomjaw irishtenor
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,240
    There is a very good reason why this guy Dad29 will NEVER again work in a church. Lotsa priests who do not know their limits.

    Wasn't that way 40 years ago!
    Thanked by 1Roborgelmeister
  • davido
    Posts: 1,186
    Were priests 40 years ago often more adept at social interactions? My perception of clergy from my childhood to now is that now they are often awkward fellows who don't know good ways to interact with people.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,570
    If ordained and religious life attracts personal temperaments inclined to developing mastery of complex systems of information and exercising said mastery in their ministry, such persons' appetite for control typically only erodes with the vicissitudes of age and erosion of energy through buffeting by life experience.....
  • Pastors are transitory. They come and then they leave.
    Let us be more permanent than they. You caved after months but pastors last for years.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,064
    Priests. You can't live with them, you can't live without them. Some of them just need a good smack.
    Thanked by 1davido
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,570
    Some of them just need a good smack.


    Flannery O'Connor's clear-eyed, unsentimental solution comes to mind for some reason:

    I have decided I must be a pretty pathetic sight with these crutches. I was in Atlanta the other day in Davison’s. An old lady got on the elevator behind me and as soon as I turned around she fixed me with a moist gleaming eye and said in a loud voice, “Bless you, darling!” I felt exactly like the Misfit and I gave her a weakly lethal look, whereupon greatly encouraged, she grabbed my arm and whispered (very loud) in my ear. “Remember what they said to John at the gate, darling!” It was not my floor but I got off and I suppose the old lady was astounded at how quick I could get away on crutches. I have a one-legged friend and I asked her what they said to John at the gate. She said she reckoned they said, “The lame shall enter first.” This may be because the lame will be able to knock everybody else aside with their crutches.

    -Flannery O'Connor, Letter to A [Betty Hester], The Habit of Being (116-117) (emphasis added)
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 694
    Some of them just need a good smack.



    I did once, and one time only after careful discernment and many complaints and requests from parishioners who felt I had the requisite rapport to talk to our priest about his abrasiveness to parishioners, tell him that at times he was “acting like a jackass to people and putting people off.” It stung his pride a bit for awhile, but he got over it, and appreciated my honesty.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,064
    I have always said, "I never claimed to be a good Christian." Church musicianship can really get you riled up at times. I have often wondered if the trials are a road to sanctity. I can only hope.