Project Idea
  • JustASeminarian
    Posts: 8
    Hi all!
    While I am not a musician, I do desire to help the Church in whatever way I can. I have an idea for a project with the new translation coming out but I need some help if anyone is interested...? Perhaps someone is already working on this ...? My hope is for it to get out at the same time as the LoH 2nd Edition, which is schedule for Feb 10, 2027.

    Project:
    Latin/English Vesperale for the Liturgy of the Hours.

    Principles:
    - Would have Vespers for every day of the year.
    - Would be printed basically like one volume of LoH (size-wise and paper style) and have 5 ribbons.
    - Latin/English on same page as much as possible or at least left and right pages.
    - Chant notation.
    - Psalm verses rather than the Meinrad stanzas.

    I know there are several possible layouts, but this is what I am leaning towards:
    - Intro
    - Magnificat tone options
    - Days of the Cycles/Seasons
    - - Hymns (I'm at the office and don't have my Latin LoH, but I think this may be better placed in an "Ordinary" section at the beginning.)
    - - Psalms
    - - Readings
    - - Responsories
    - - Magnificat Antiphons
    - - Intercessions
    - - Collects
    - Sanctoral Cycle
    - - Proper Hymns
    - - Proper Psalms (if there are any for Vespers, I don't think there are)
    - - Proper Readings
    - - Proper Responsories
    - - Proper Magnificat Antiphons
    - - Proper Intercessions
    - - Proper Collects
    - Commons
    - - Same as Sanctoral Cycle but common


    Thoughts? Want to help?

    God bless!
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,369
    It is a lot of work.

    It will take you more than a year whether you do it entirely in LaTeX or only chant elements in LaTeX, the rest being laid out in InDesign. You also have to deal with the copyright problem. A bilingual antiphonal has to be larger. The Cistercians are doing this. It is quite interesting.
  • JustASeminarian
    Posts: 8
    Well if I could get access to the program the Committee on Divine Worship created as mentioned in this article, that might help.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,369
    Help, yes. But it is a massive project.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,250
    It has been done in Latin/French.

    https://heures-gregoriennes.com/en/
    Thanked by 1JustASeminarian
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 437
    The suggested layout (looking up each element in a separate book section) is almost as impractical as it can be. A nightmare to use.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,369
    Yeah that too. I don’t know how I would design such a book for the LH which has far more material per section (with correspondingly fewer parts per office: two psalms, a canticle but with the Mag antiphons of Sunday on a longer cycle, more hymns etc.)
  • JustASeminarian
    Posts: 8
    @kevinf - that's fantastic! Thanks!
    @igneus - have you ever prayed the LoH from the breviary? This is set up just like it... and the Liber Usualis was just as crazy to use when I was in the FSSP seminary. We'd use 3-4 ribbons for each.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 3,369
    The Liber Usualis is poorly designed!

    Also if the new breviary is set up like that, then it’s a disaster but I’m pretty sure that even the LH follows the traditional scheme.
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 660
    https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/22959/ordinary-form-loth-chanted-according-to-the-oco-2015/p1
    Thanked by 1JustASeminarian
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 437
    @igneus - have you ever prayed the LoH from the breviary? This is set up just like it...


    Yes. Several different historical versions of the breviary. Others I have not prayed, but have studied. None was set up just like it.
  • JustASeminarian
    Posts: 8
    After continuing to research this, I am leaning towards only Sundays (I & II), Solemnities, and Feasts. It would be similarly organized to this, but would have both Latin and English and the chant for both. This has Sundays, Solemnities, and Feasts plus several Memorials. It goes:
    - Sunday of year
    - Psalms for Sundays
    - Sanctoral
    - Commons
    - Ordinary

    I'm still leaning towards having several options for the Magnificat so as to match the antiphons.

    Does anyone have any idea on the how to set the English words to the music? What Aaron Williams did seems to work, but I was not sure if there was anything semi-official...

    @igneus - There's no way to make a Vesperal without needing at least 3 ribbons unless I repeat everything for each day. Unless you had any ideas? I'm seriously all ears on this!
  • monasteryliturgistmonasteryliturgist
    Posts: 529
    I could prob. help you out if its just Sundays, Solemnities, and Feasts with the English settings of antiphons and psalm pointing as I already make booklets for those things- obviously we have to wait for those translations to come out but yeah I could prob. help.
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 437
    There's no way to make a Vesperal without needing at least 3 ribbons unless I repeat everything for each day.

    Of course. I'm not suggesting to get rid of ribbons completely. The standard content layout of LOTH books is reasonable and efficient. The initial post suggested a much more fragmented book, with separate sections for each structural element.
  • JustASeminarian
    Posts: 8
    So I spent that last few hours really working on this and figuring out the layout. So here's the deal:
    Hardback with bible thin pages. This is just for Solemnities, Sundays, and Feasts.

    Option 1:
    - Have an Ordinary that has the intro, Our Father, and notes for how to chant the readings, preces/intercessions, and collects
    - Everything else is set for the day, so there is no flipping pages, just turning them
    - 2 ribbons
    - ~2000 pages
    Cost: ~$44.99

    Option 2:
    - Have an Ordinary that has the intro, Our Father, and notes for how to chant the readings, preces/intercessions, and collects
    - Have a Hymnody Section (unless it is proper for the day)
    - Section for the days (both seasonal and sanctoral) - this would have antiphons with page numbers to the psalms, Reading, Responsory, Mag. Ant., Intercessions, collect
    - OT section since they repeat
    - Psalmody (so the psalms used would be in order with the different tones needed, so might be all 8 tones for some)
    - Magnificats (all 8 tones)
    - Common of the Apostles (as it is used 4 times)
    - 7 ribbons!
    - ~1000 pages
    Cost: ~$34.99

    I'm honestly tempted to just go the Option 1 route, as I am hoping for easy adoption in parishes. The costs are very much estimated but the royalties look to be up to 12% total to the Vatican and to the USCCB. Reminder Latin would be on the left hand pages, and English on the right.




    Thoughts?
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,421
    As part of my career, I have spent time teaching seminarians how to use liturgical books like the LOTH and the Roman Missal. I have used the 4-volume LOTH on a daily basis. If you want Mary and Joe Catholic to be able to use the book, I recommend Option 1. In my opinion, plenty of people might get interested in praying Lauds or Vespers but then are smacked in the face with the reality of flipping all around the breviary to find the right pages and give up. Lower the barrier to entry, if possible. 2,000 pages might be very large, so 2 volumes might be advisable.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    I wonder if the Committee on Divine Worship staff would be willing to let you arrange the psalm texts in the form of verses instead of as stanzas. If I remember right, the usual instructions for Scripture readings require that the "sense lines" be preserved intact.
    E.g.: https://www.usccb.org/offices/new-american-bible/permissions

    Perhaps it would be good to start with a smaller book for Compline only.
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