NPM 2014, Saint Louis, MO (July 14–18)
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Beginning of day 3: it's probably not a good thing when the plenum speaker asks "what is truth?" and says that all roads lead to the same place.

    I said good things were happening, not that all is perfect.

    More updates to come.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    On another note, not about NPM, but related ...

    OCP not only has made it very hard to purchase online without a credit card, they have now closed any parish accounts that have not been active within two years. Thus, when I just tried to purchase what appear to be lovely SATB settings of the propers by Chris Walker, I was told that I cannot bill it to the church since a new account being established would require a credit check! I was given the option to purchase with my own money.

    I declined, and I guess my parish will never buy anything from them ever again, since I'm not laying down my own money and getting reimbursed 2 weeks later.
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,027
    Beginning of day 3: it's probably not a good thing when the plenum speaker asks "what is truth?" and says that all roads lead to the same place.


    WOW PONTIUS PILATE WAS THE PLENUM SPEAKER AT NPM!!!!!!?!?!?!

    [tongue planted firmly in cheek]
    [maybe]
    [maybe I'm trolling]
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Oh she referenced him and said that it's a good question.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,827
    Is she also going to wash her hands?
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 2,596
    No, she brought Purell.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,181
    Oh she referenced him and said that it's a good question.

    Nuh-uh. Pinky swear?
  • Beginning of day 3: it's probably not a good thing when the plenum speaker asks "what is truth?" and says that all roads lead to the same place.


    Guess I picked the right morning to miss the plenum!
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Yes pinky swear, although to put it totally in context she wasn't saying that his historical question was valid, rather that in trying to "live truth," we must first ask ourselves that question. It softens the sentiment in context, but ... even in context I didn't find it to be a great or valid question, and I generally think people should avoid unfortunate associations when possible.
    Thanked by 2BruceL Kathy
  • I notice that the entire 228-page NPM convention program book as well as daily newsletters and some handouts for classes and breakout sessions can be accessed here:

    http://www.npm.org/EducationEvents/convention/national/handouts.htm

    I'm only there "in spirit" this year.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,370
    I think that program book says that NPM has about 7000 members.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Thank you Fr. Jim.
    I wish I could report that perusing the document resulted in anything but depression, regret and sympathy from this quarter.
    I wasn't sure that Colloquium had much to offer me before I commited to attending it this year. Well, both me and my lovely bride will hike* the hills of Pittsburgh next June.
    I suggest you try the same.
    God bless NPM, they need it.
    Charles Culbreth

    * Actually I intend to rent a scooter or a Harley....
  • I vote Harley.
    Since I'll be there!
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 633
    I vote Harley too.Although I hope you don't need one by then.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,111
    At 7000 members, they are down from the middle 1990's when it was much higher.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,027
    I expect a lot of people are doing what I did the past few years and are members of local NPM while foregoing national membership.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 2,596
    I expect a lot of people are doing what I did the past few years and are members of local NPM while foregoing national membership.


    Especially since many employers require membership to NPM or AGO, etc. as a condition for employment.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    One of my jobs is an institutional member
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,827
    Especially since many employers require membership to NPM or AGO, etc. as a condition for employment.
    That is just bogus.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,111
    I disagree Francis. Membership in the AGO is a part of my work here and I am very thankful. The membership is not out of my pocket and I receive the periodical. I am very happy it is here.

    As to NPM, it was part of my work here also but I asked to use the money in other ways and it was granted.

    Do not disdain so quick. I am personally thankful the AGO is part of my world. And churches that offer such realize that professional organizations are part of the world of the musician.
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,827
    PM'ing you Kevin.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,193
    I will not work for an employer who makes membership in the AGO a condition.

    Why?

    Simply put, the AGO includes in its code of ethics a position that members and employers may not discriminate on the basis of, inter alia, gender preferences or identity. Further, they advocate for same-sex partner benefits in employee contracts.

    Now, I suppose I could swallow hard and re-up my long-since expired NPM membership (if the employer pays the freight). However, I will not violate my conscience with regard to Catholic Teaching and have my name appear in any way associated with the AGO.

    Period.
    Thanked by 3francis G eft94530
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,827
    DA:

    That is basically what I said to Kevin offline.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Unbelievable.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,510
    David Andrew, I write into the membership renewal form every year, "While I personally don't discriminate against anyone, my signature does not bind my employer to honor this agreement." They take the money, "ho's" that they are.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,193
    A friend pointed out that as he is in a decision-making position in a Catholic church with paid choristers, he'd be subject to the non-discrimination policy, thus exposing him and the parish to sanctions if a disgruntled section leader of the proclivities in question were to decide to make it an issue. For that reason neither he nor his boss, an avid amateur organist himself will not be members of the AGO.

    Don't ask me to describe some of the scandalous behavior I witnessed as a regular attendee of NPM conventions.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,510
    My pastor is the decision maker in the parish and he will not tolerate anything that causes scandal or bad example. If AGO wants to impose sanctions over that, bring them on! It's a spineless organization more interested in money than the welfare of members. It has good publications, sponsors good concerts, and has wretchedly abominable dinners at the local chapter level. That's about it.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Why in the world would you care what a stipend paid singer does when not at church or who he sleeps with anyway? Not sure why this is a "thing."
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,827
    Why in the world would you care what a stipend paid singer does when not at church or who he sleeps with anyway? Not sure why this is a "thing."
    hmmm... did Bill Clinton say that? I think Pelosi would entirely agree with you too.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    I wish I could do for our economy what he did!

    Seriously. They're not even real employees. I care if they can sight read and hold a part. Spoiler alert: most can't.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,827
    I wish I could do for our economy what he did!
    What he 'did' TO our economy is what we have inherited from him and those before and after him.

    It is utter foolishness (and impossible) for a human being to think he can divorce his personal and private moral obligations and actions from having any direct consequence on the future of his society.

    Path leads to path, path to slope and then finally, the cliff. The demoralization of the soul by the actions of its leaders will ultimately lead to the demoralization of the nation itself. In the political sphere the fruit is revolution, in the spiritual sphere, rebellion.

    They're not even real employees.
    Are you serious?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,308
    There are cases and there are cases.

    A singer who appears steadily as a psalmist is, in effect, a lector, so the criteria for a lector are appropriate, e.g., a Catholic of good repute in the community.

    A choral singer in a loft -- well, that's different: he or she is not a public face for the parish.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,827
    Hmmm. Does that mean that those who sing in the loft don't need to be of good repute?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,308
    Let's get this thread back to the topic. We've already talked on the topic of whether to let non-Catholics and bad Catholics into the choir more than once.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,510
    Why in the world would you care what a stipend paid singer does when not at church or who he sleeps with anyway? Not sure why this is a "thing."


    Unless the singer did something outrageous to call attention to himself, I wouldn't know what he did in other places. AGO slants everything toward the high number of liberal Protestants who belong to the organization. Those of us away from the huge cities who don't have the issues of paying singers (wish we had the money) or keeping up with the latest fad in Presbyterian musicianship are outside AGO's concerns. I pull out the things from the organization and its publications that I can use, and disregard the rest.

  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 1,629
    If whoever is so whatever that it's causing scandal, then you have to do something. Otherwise, I don't worry about other peoples' sins. I have enough of my own.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,181
    Just to clarify one often-misunderstood point: "Scandal" isn't a matter of whether people are horrified, but whether people are confused about matters of sin. If people take away from a parish music program the idea that sinful behaviors are acceptable for Catholics (or anyone), that constitutes scandal.

    In other words, scandal isn't the emails you get, but the emails you don't get, if that makes sense.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    They are not employees in the sense that a DOM or DRE or principal are. They don't even get background checked. In fact I once hired a convicted felon to sing for me. She was an ok soprano; nothing to write home about though, and THAT, not her conviction, is why she didn't get hired permanently.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,181
    Being a former criminal is not the same as being a current obdurate unrepentant or even committed sinner against the natural law.

    But I would agree that this isn't the right thread for this discussion.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    This isn't the right CENTURY for this discussion.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,181
    Which century was it right for? Or should I ask, for which century was the first chapter of the Letter to the Romans appropriate?
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    I agree with Gavin.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    By the way, final NPM wrap up to come for those who want to be "on-topic."
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,308
    Those handouts which Fr. linked above are encouraging: I haven't started reading yet, but the topics include many worthwhile subjects.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,181
    I agree with Gavin.
    Reason #23241345 to be Catholic. Theological questions aren't decided by a show of hands.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    This isn't a theological question. And again, what year is this?
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,181
    AD 2014. The point being?

    And yes, it's a theological question.
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 633
    God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow...just thought I'd throw that out there.

    His standards remain the same whether you consider them relevant or not. And at the end of the day EVERYTHING is a theological question. Just sayin'.

    Nothing is morally neutral. It either helps you and the souls around you get to Heaven...or it doesn't. Period.

    Even what goes on at an NPM convention is a theological question. (See...I was on topic). :)
    Thanked by 1Torculus
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,827
    Even what goes on at an NPM convention is a theological question.
    Wendi, did you mean 'theologically questionable?"
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 633
    Well...maybe that too. :)