No explanation of how that was possible was ever satisfactory...
if the orthodoxy of my faith will be called into question because I support the Ordinary Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite.
In this revision of the Roman Missal,
In conclusion, we wish to give the force of law to all that we have set forth concerning the new Roman Missal. In promulgating the official edition of the Roman Missal, Our predecessor, St. Pius V, presented it as an instrument of liturgical unity and as a witness to the purity of the worship the Church. While leaving room in the new Missal, according to the order of the Second Vatican Council, "for legitimate variations and adaptations,"(15) we hope nevertheless that the Missal will be received by the faithful as an instrument which bears witness to and which affirms the common unity of all. Thus, in the great diversity of languages, one unique prayer will rise as an acceptable offering to our Father in heaven, through our High-Priest Jesus Christ, in the Holy Spirit.
For decades, trads have been crying that there were two rites, two theologies, two faiths.
It would seem these words were utterly prophetic, and no doubt they ring in the halls of Rome right now, much to the chagrin of the present pontificate."What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful."
Can anyone honestly look me in the eyes and say that what we are being told now is not somehow an inversion of what was always taught?"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed."
What I was stating is that, it at least seems that there are two faiths prima facia, as a natural outgrowth of the fact that the two rites are so radically different (ergo my belief that the latter is not a "revision" of the former, but rather something radically different), and in light of 'lex orandi...' that there appears to be a totally different sacramental theology that flows from the aforementioned new rite, which therefor gives the impression of a different faith. (And to be honest, I do wonder at times.)
that there are two faiths prima facia, as a natural outgrowth of the fact that the two rites are so radically different
and in light of 'lex orandi...' that there appears to be a totally different sacramental theology that flows from the aforementioned new rite, which therefor gives the impression of a different faith.
This is an institutional problem, and less-so a personal one, which is to say: the church herself is giving the impression of a new or altered faith. (And bolder, modernist theologians do indeed make this claim, so I can't be too crazy for positing it as a possible theory.)
I'm not accusing anyone who attends the novus ordo of heresy, or not being a true believer or a true catholic. I'm just observing that the old ways and the new ways seem so radically different, that one has to wonder whether or not the novus ordo culture, writ large, has strayed too far.
Also, it's quite odd to insist for decades that the new and old rites are the same, when the material, externals, and fruits of the new rite are radically different from those of the old. But then, we have a pope who says—formally, mind you—that one is the new normal ("ordinary") and the other is extraordinary but they are two halves of the same coin. Ok fine. He also famously observed that"What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful."
It would seem these words were utterly prophetic, and no doubt they ring in the halls of Rome right now, much to the chagrin of the present pontificate.
Fast forward to today and we are suddenly told that holding to what our ancestors always held is indeed harmful. Supposedly, very harmful. So much so that it needs to be totally suppressed, post haste. No more old rites, no more old Mass
14. Mother Church earnestly desires that all the faithful should be led to that fully conscious, and active participation in liturgical celebrations which is demanded by the very nature of the liturgy. Such participation by the Christian people as "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a redeemed people (1 Pet. 2:9; cf. 2:4-5), is their right and duty by reason of their baptism.
In the restoration and promotion of the sacred liturgy, this full and active participation by all the people is the aim to be considered before all else; for it is the primary and indispensable source from which the faithful are to derive the true Christian spirit; and therefore pastors of souls must zealously strive to achieve it, by means of the necessary instruction, in all their pastoral work.
21. In order that the Christian people may more certainly derive an abundance of graces from the sacred liturgy, holy Mother Church desires to undertake with great care a general restoration of the liturgy itself. For the liturgy is made up of immutable elements divinely instituted, and of elements subject to change. These not only may but ought to be changed with the passage of time if they have suffered from the intrusion of anything out of harmony with the inner nature of the liturgy or have become unsuited to it.
In this restoration, both texts and rites should be drawn up so that they express more clearly the holy things which they signify; the Christian people, so far as possible, should be enabled to understand them with ease and to take part in them fully, actively, and as befits a community.
24. Sacred scripture is of the greatest importance in the celebration of the liturgy. For it is from scripture that lessons are read and explained in the homily, and psalms are sung; the prayers, collects, and liturgical songs are scriptural in their inspiration and their force, and it is from the scriptures that actions and signs derive their meaning. Thus to achieve the restoration, progress, and adaptation of the sacred liturgy, it is essential to promote that warm and living love for scripture to which the venerable tradition of both eastern and western rites gives testimony.
30. To promote active participation, the people should be encouraged to take part by means of acclamations, responses, psalmody, antiphons, and songs, as well as by actions, gestures, and bodily attitudes. And at the proper times all should observe a reverent silence.
50. The rite of the Mass is to be revised in such a way that the intrinsic nature and purpose of its several parts, as also the connection between them, may be more clearly manifested, and that devout and active participation by the faithful may be more easily achieved.
For this purpose the rites are to be simplified, due care being taken to preserve their substance; elements which, with the passage of time, came to be duplicated, or were added with but little advantage, are now to be discarded; other elements which have suffered injury through accidents of history are now to be restored to the vigor which they had in the days of the holy Fathers, as may seem useful or necessary.
51. The treasures of the bible are to be opened up more lavishly, so that richer fare may be provided for the faithful at the table of God's word. In this way a more representative portion of the holy scriptures will be read to the people in the course of a prescribed number of years.
52. By means of the homily the mysteries of the faith and the guiding principles of the Christian life are expounded from the sacred text, during the course of the liturgical year; the homily, therefore, is to be highly esteemed as part of the liturgy itself; in fact, at those Masses which are celebrated with the assistance of the people on Sundays and feasts of obligation, it should not be omitted except for a serious reason.
53. Especially on Sundays and feasts of obligation there is to be restored, after the Gospel and the homily, "the common prayer" or "the prayer of the faithful." By this prayer, in which the people are to take part, intercession will be made for holy Church, for the civil authorities, for those oppressed by various needs, for all mankind, and for the salvation of the entire world [39].
54. In Masses which are celebrated with the people, a suitable place may be allotted to their mother tongue. This is to apply in the first place to the readings and "the common prayer," but also, as local conditions may warrant, to those parts which pertain to the people, according to the norm laid down in Art. 36 of this Constitution.
Nevertheless steps should be taken so that the faithful may also be able to say or to sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them.
And wherever a more extended use of the mother tongue within the Mass appears desirable, the regulation laid down in Art. 40 of this Constitution is to be observed.
"What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful."
One may choose to abrogate his prior legislation, but one cannot abrogate his observation that is as true as the sky is blue. I refuse to believe that attending the mass that nourished saints for centuries is somehow bad for the church, my soul, or for anyone else. I don't buy it. It is a lie.
It is most becoming that there be in the Church... only one rite for the celebration of Mass
In terms of"What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful."
It is a theological novelty to suggest that people retain the right to a Mass in an older edition of the Roman Missal.
"What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful."
“This liturgy, which Pope John Paul II has kindly granted to all those who are attached to it, is an integral part of ‘the richness that the diversity of charisms and traditions of spirituality and apostolate represents for the Church.’”
“I therefore hope that this new edition will meet the expectations of these faithful and help them to participate actively in the celebration of Holy Mass. In this way it will contribute in its own way to the liturgical renewal called for by the Second Vatican Council and will highlight ‘the beauty of unity in variety.’”
- Cdl Ratzinger, 1962 preface
Don't get me wrong: I have great respect for the Petrine office and authority, but he has no more right to abrogate millennia of tradition than to tell me to 'jump off that cliff for Jesus'.
the liturgy is made up of immutable elements divinely instituted, and of elements subject to change.
It is quite simple, Papal authority has limits... as described in Vatican I. I suppose that as so few people have read the verbiage of Vat II, but spout endlessly about the 'spirit', they are even less likely to have read Vatican I.
Vatican II does have a right to set up a commission, but the product of that commission is just a product. Was the product expected or did it go beyond what was called for?
Which parts are Divinely inspired? The Roman Canon? and which parts are subject to change? I note you do not say...
The changes have definitely gone beyond what was called for. The changes have not been made in good faith and we have the autobiographies of those involved that prove this. What exactly is holy about a prayer made up in a cafe, over a glass or two of wine?
Also we are told "by their fruits we will know them", so why is our seminary closing? why is our Church dying? This springtime of Vatican II looks like a nuclear winter.
@MarkB : But whereas two Coke varieties can exist simultaneously as consumer items, I question whether it makes sense for the Roman Church simultaneously to maintain two authorized forms of the Roman Rite...(etc, etc)
...Liturgy is not a consumer item.
However, Latin Rite Catholics in Chicago will unite in celebrating the liturgy “exclusively” according to the Novus ordo Missae on specific days during the liturgical year: the first Sunday of every month, Christmas, the Triduum, Easter Sunday, and Pentecost Sunday. The policy indicates that this liturgy, which may be celebrated in Latin, must be celebrated with the priest facing the people.
The intention for this policy is:
“to foster and make manifest the unity of this local Church, as well as to provide all Catholics in the Archdiocese an opportunity to offer a concrete manifestation of the acceptance of the teaching of the Second Vatican Council and its liturgical books.”
I understand why Cardinal Cupich would institute certain days when the EF cannot be celebrated, but I do find it odd that he says it must be celebrated verses populum.
"What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful."
In neither TC nor in the Responsa do the Holy Father or +Roche say that the TLM is per se harmful. Rome’s concern seems to be with perceived division, disunity, and disobedience which have sprung up since SP and the creation of boutique parishes/communities devoted to the old rite. At least, according to his own words, +Francis’s problem seems to be with the current situation, not with the actual text of the 1962 Missal.
There are only a very small number of recalcitrants. They do not get to make the Church bend to their will,
If the liturgy is not a consumer item, then why is the NO customizable to the person looking through its menu of options, only 'buying" and making use of the parts they like?
At what point is it ok for individual prelates to say, "well, sure, these items are on the menu, but... you can't choose it on certain days of the month" and "sure, that's technically only optional, but I'm going to insist that you use only this option, as often as I like"?
So, why should one's local Ordinary be allowed to use its options as his own play thing, as is clearly what has happened in Chicago?
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