Dedication of Christ Cathedral in Orange, CA
  • MarkB
    Posts: 1,085
    https://onepeterfive.com/catholic-church-look-like/

    Kwasniewski responded, kind of. Briefly passes over the criticism of his article, then goes on to offer some general principles for church architecture.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    Like anyone asked him for his opinion in the first place. I suspect no funds from him were used in the renovation of the cathedral.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,801
    Hmm, verticality- check. Balance- check. Attention to detail- check (we should assume he doesn't mean bric-a-brac or Sainte‐Foy would never have been mentioned).

    Let's give K. credit for not doubling down on the conspiratorial talk: I sure he meant nothing by that one phrase that jarred me too, though I see someone named Liam has called him out on "the last Pope" in the comments section ;-)
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • francis
    Posts: 10,828
    I had to read some of the comments which are somewhat entertaining… both on PrayTell and OnePeterFive…

    From Praytell we hear,
    “As is often said, ‘the Church is a big tent!’”

    (this phrase has been put forward by those who have always felt outside because of their heterodox practices and to justify their ‘right’ to belong.)

    To which I say, ‘Well, you’ve got your big tent now’! And what a perfect tent it is… get in!

    Also from PrayTell:
    Dr. Lee Fratantuono says:
    August 31, 2019 at 6:53 am
    Monsignor Holquin does not engage substantively with any of Peter’s critiques.

    Now of course one could argue that Peter’s critiques are not worthy of substantive response…but then silence is the appropriate course of action, not an ad hominem attack on someone. Such an attack (besides being an exercise of bad manners) might well raise the reasonable conclusion that Peter’s piece struck a nerve.

    Calling Peter a “sedevacantist” who “rejects Vatican II” and who is one of those “ilk who are mean in mind and spirit” only furthers the ad hominem nature of Monsignor’s piece, to no productive end.

    and…
    Todd Flowerday says:
    August 31, 2019 at 3:52 pm
    Not only are the allegations untrue, I disapprove of this site giving them a hearing, even via a response printed elsewhere. This is all part of a psychological racket perpetrated by people who have bought into the Culture of Complaint wholesale. As for this thread, if you’re a parishioner or have visited this church as a pilgrim, you have something to say. And that’s about it.

    Well, first I am assuming Flowerday is a parishioner or a pilgrim...
    To which I respond, “YES SIR!” I guess there is no more calling out the modernist agenda lest we embarrass them with the truth! ... or more accurately as Dr. Lee Fratantuono says, 'striking a nerve.'
  • francis
    Posts: 10,828
    .
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    I wonder if there even is a modernist agenda. The liberals I have met are as disorganized and split into factions as the Trads.
  • NihilNominisNihilNominis
    Posts: 1,023
    I wonder if there even is a modernist agenda. The liberals I have met are as disorganized and split into factions as the Trads.


    Frankly, the issue isn't Left v. Right. Both factions had their trust of church authority broken at some point in the past. Now, together, en bloc, they have made the modern Church the uncontrollable mob that it is today, standing constantly and obnoxiously in judgment of divinely instituted and guaranteed authority.

    On Left or Right, not even the words or censure of a Pope carry much weight these days, unless the Holy Father finds himself parroting the party line one way or another, in which case he will not so much be respected and esteemed, as weaponized and used as a bludgeon by partisan hacks on the one side against those on the other.

    There is one flock and one Shepherd, and a hierarchy connecting us practically to that Shepherd. How can the Church heal without a renewed, humble docility on both sides?
    Thanked by 1Elmar
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    "not even the words or censure of a Pope carry much weight these days,"

    This has also happened before. The modern situation of a pope's statements occupying much mental space in the minds of the faithful at large is a relatively recent fruit of: (a) the papacy ceasing to be a temporal power, and (b) globalized media and literacy.

    For but one illustrative marker well before the modern situation, one might consider the humiliating failure of Paul V's 1606 interdict of the Republic of Venice and excommunication of its government leaders.
    Thanked by 1Elmar
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    I would also point out that some more recent popes have squandered away the authority they had. In current times, the papacy blows the way the wind blows and its direction and objectives work at cross purposes. Chaos and confusion seem to be what flows from Rome.
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