Update on the Twin Cities issue.

Those who would do evil to their church self-excommunicate, at least that what we learned in 8th grade religion class. That’s how I view McCarrick- he’s a criminal because he committed crimes and he’s always been a criminal ever since he committed those crimes. Why on earth would a pope, or now two popes in a row tolerate this kind of crime. Have these popes never heard their churches say the prayer to St Michael...

I played one mass for McCarrick years ago (western US). I think everyone at the parish had no idea of his background when he visited. I was nervous to be playing for such a highly vested prelate, so I asked a priest to say a blessing over me before my commute.Recently a different priest told me that when people ask for special blessings, that they do this because God urges them to protect themselves from evil spirits which will come to cross their paths. He knew which restaurants in town were positively haunted. When I first heard Cardinal McCarrick on the news, I immediately thought of my blessings.

When I heard Pope Francis’ reaction, I felt betrayed. His “I won’t say a word” seems like from way far left field. Papa Francisco! Don’t jump the shark on us now! Ocean waste is terrible... Pope Francis is pulling an obvious Donald on this one. Sort of </purple>.

True.
I mean is the D’s ability to redirect the media when faced with a crisis. The pope seems to be promising not to say something.

Schoenbergian,

His response, surely, was "Use your professional judgment", and "I'm not going to say anything about this".

"I'm not going to say anything about this".

He was just too busy drafting his remarks on pollution in the ocean to deal with pollution in his flock.

But but but youth unemployment!!!

I think even that has improved, but the current administration will get little credit for it.

But those victimized and abused LGBT Houyhnhnms are another matter. Waiting for Francis to address this immediately.

"...who it will be done to..." are the US manufacturers who moved to slave-labor Mexican locations. $4.00/hour wages, little-to-none health insurance, very lax enviro regs....

With the new bilateral agreement, things will be very different down Mexico way. Evinrude, Johnson Controls, GM, Ford.......there will be some pain there. Too bad.

Agreed.

The Oratorian Community of Cincinnati will have a Vigil of Reparation over the events that prompted this thread on the Feast of the Holy Cross, September 14th. Reparation will begin with a Solemn Mass (EF) in the evening (7:00 PM at Old St. Mary's in Over The Rhine), followed by a procession around the block with a relic of the true cross, a blessing with said relic, and a night of Eucharistic Adoration, before ending with reposing the Eucharist and Mass at 6:45 AM on September 15th.

Those of you from around Cincinnati (or visiting / passing through), please join us if you are available!

PRE-MASS

• Litany of the Sacred Heart (chanted)
• Hymn (Lift High the Cross)

MASS

• Full Propers
• Mass IV, Credo VII
• Offertory = O Iesu Christe (Jaquet de Mantua)
• Communion 1 = Ave Verum (Josquin des Prez)
• Communion 2 = Adoramus Te (Dubois)

POST-MASS

• Vexilla Regis (chant) - procession begins
• Crucem Tuam (chant)
• Crux Fidelis (chant)
• Psalm 50 (chant) - as we re-enter the church
• blessing with the relic at the Communion rail
• All-night adoration

@Incard....Yup.

This is not getting any better.

Also rumored that Vatican intel-agencies are looking for Vigano. Vatican intel is VERY highly regarded for good reason; the Church has people 'on the ground' worldwide. And they're not a business-suit version of the halberd bunch; they have extremely sophisticated electronics, (etc.)

Hmmmm.

One would hope that the Vatican would be smart enough to realize that Vigano's health and well-being is of their utmost concern now, because if he ends up in the state of being CCooze mentions, well - they've got a martyr on their hands. And martyrs are well-nigh impossible to argue with.

And, since it seems a few of my friends have somehow come up with this mindset, I thought it worth mentioning - the devotees of the SSPX aren't gloating over this. Not by a longshot. This only calls for more prayer and fasting. As well as sympathy with our fellow Catholics.

Good thing that Mgr Vigano did not cross Hillary, eh? He'd already be a "suicide" with a bullet through the back of his head....

irony of ironies...

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- "May God forgive you for what you have done," the newly elected pope told the cardinals who elevated him to the highest office in the Catholic Church.

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2018/10/catholicism-after-2018

Of course, as many have noted, this is the dissolution of the present Church. Mr. Reno notes in the article I linked above that we are passing from an era in which predatory homosexual behavior was (and still is) acceptable. But, as he also proposes, the findings regarding Cardinal McCarrick are the signs of the breakup of this "acceptance" among many in the Church. He also notes, as we have seen here and other places, the power of the bishop is and has passed from an absolute rule to a mix of administrative conduct and fund-raising.
Personally, I believe this is also the beginnings of the real death of the Novus Ordo. It is the product of an era that has come to an end with this scandal because of its association with progressive ecclesiological practice. In essence, the bishops are screwed
( metaphorically) because of their own lack of leadership. They turn out advisory guidelines for the liturgy, but frankly, few bishops actually enforce these guidelines. The real growth lies in new initiatives: i.e., the FSSP, SSPX, ICRSP, EF communities and schools that have begun as result of parents and clergy deciding to go a different route than the weak and dissenting parochial schools that are in most of the country. I know that in my own place, we practice the NO very closely to the EF. In time, we will go to the EF. We are the only parish growing and the only school growing in the diocese of Palm Beach,FL.
I urge you to read the linked article. It is sobering and yet hopeful. The guarded peace of the last 50 years has come to an end. We may be in the midst of an ecclesiological war, but the new initiatives I referred to will sustain us and offer new possibilities.
Bon courage mes amis....

My favorite comment from the article: "Over the last generation it’s been far more fatal to your career to say the Mass in Latin than to groom seminarians as love-boys.”

the late Rev. Fr. Dr. Malachi Martin

Am almost through his book The Jesuits. Martin detailed the problems with the Jebs which began just before their 1964 General Convention which elected Arrupe. Strictly co-incidence that Vat II was running at that time, of course.

That was the GC at which the Jebs migrated towards 'social justice' stuff; their next GC (1973) cast it in bronze. They pitched all their old formation protocols, and adopted the "lived experience should guide" line straight out of Modernism.

R R Reno's most recent essay in First Things mentions some of the results in the Jeb seminaries. Ugly. KevinF linked to it above and it's really worth your time!

And for Hallowe'en, be sure to read Martin's Windswept House!!

Some days I feel like the only 'trad' who isn't terribly enamoured of Malachi Martin . . .

For the record, the quote which francis presented above ("May God forgive you...") was from Pope John Paul I:
http://www.catholicnews.com/services/englishnews/2013/pope-francis-prefigured-discovering-the-real-john-paul-i.cfm

Dad,

Martin's books are (allegedly) fiction... but more and more people have the sense that he was writing something else. Who, for example, was the Cardinal of Century City than the late Cdl Bernadin? Liking his books has nothing to do with it. It's a shame that so much dystopian literature in previous decades is becoming historical narrative in our own day.

...had those in the '40's, '50's, and '60's...,

...and we have had them ever since, and forever (for hundreds upon hundreds of years) before. It would be the apex of naivete or ostrichean myopia to believe that this predation is a problem peculiar to the past generation or two and into our own times. Children (boys and girls) have had their emotional lives ruined by this monstrous crime from time immemorial. This didn't happen 'out of the blue'. It is good, good, that cleansing light is now being shown (the brighter the light the better) on the very creeps who commit these acts within a Church that has managed to shuffle them under the rug ever since there was a Church. Should we not all pray, and pray earnestly, that justice will be done to the victims and the Church be cleansed utterly of any tolerance whatsoever for priests who are not chaste, and for any other functionaries in the Church (female as well as male) who stain the lives of others.
This is not only a problem of homosexual priests. There have been predations upon little girls; and, one has heard of numerous women who have found themselves in a sexual relationship with a priest while she was in counseling with him, or even in the confessional.

All these sins occur in society-at-large as well as in the Church, but we, the Church must clean house - even if it comes to light that our most beloved and respected priests, prelates, or persons are guilty or in any way complicit. Those who expect our respect should deserve it.

'80% homosexual'.....

hmm. that leaves 20% heterosexual, so we should not ordain heterosexuals either - or are their crimes alright since they are 'normal' and 'only' 20%? It has been estimated that as many as 40-60% of priests are homosexual. I should think that of all of them only a small fraction are guilty of these sins. A witch hunt for homosexuals would be crazy and sinful - it would also empty the Church of some of its holiest and most priestlily talented men, some of its greatest minds. So, the 80% (assuming your figures are correct) of child molesters who are homosexual comprise a very small overall percentage of homosexual priests. (Your logic is pitiful!... and ruthless -'Some homosexual priests are child molesters, ergo, all homosexual priests will molest children' would not pass muster in a beginner's logic class. I've never known a gay person who wasn't livid at the thought of child molestation.)

And we haven't begun to talk about heterosexual priests who form affairs with married women, or molest little girls. Or do their crimes not count because they are heterosexual, 'normal'? There are sexual crimes other than child abuse that stain the Church's fabric.

(I was 'approached' by a pastor once, when I was in my twenties. I said 'no', and that was that. As I recall, I at that time felt sorry for him more than anything else.)

MJO, where, precisely, did I advocate a "witch hunt"? Stop with the over-reading!

A priest is "alter Christus"--and that implies that someone with a grave disorder clearly should not be ordained.

Maybe I was not clear. The Bishops must refuse to ordain homosexuals. Regarding those already ordained, do nothing UNTIL there is an event which is publicly* known. At that time, no holds barred, get rid of him**. Same applies to hetero-problems. Once it's public, they're outta there.

*meaning that more than the victim and the priest know about it.

**De-frock.

N.B.: THIS WAS EDITED, ADDING ASTERISKED MATERIAL.

Chonak

Thanks for pointing out the quote as being from a different pope, although, that makes the situation more dire as now we’ve had TWO popes that have said this.

After you posted your clarification I had to go back and find where I had read about Francis saying the same. Apparently I referenced the wrong article.

Here are the reports I had read about Pope Francis saying the same:

https://nypost.com/2013/03/15/pope-francis-told-cardinals-may-god-forgive-you-for-what-youve-done/

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/15/world/europe/pope-francis.html

My problem with these kind of musings is that although they are veiled in a joke and may seem innocuous at the time they are given, it can bespeak disposition if you know what I mean.

Furthermore, what about the gay priests who choose holy orders to help themselves abstain from their disorder, to place themselves in an environment conducive to celibacy of all kinds?

I agree with Jackson. There's a clear difference between abhorring clearly sinful sexuality and placing a blanket condemnation on all people of a certain group, regardless of their active behavior.

I'm sorry, Chris - I fail to see how the priesthood is a place where "opportunity" presents itself. I see nothing intrinsic about it that invites men to a life of active homosexuality.

It seems that some here think any male has a "right" to the priesthood. Nope. It's not a right, never was, never will be.

Further, the priesthood is not a body-building analogy. One does not "do" the priesthood to "get strong" against sin. That's a rather amazing contention, friends.

Some here also cannot seem to read very well. There is no "condemnation" of "people" voiced on this forum. But just as someone without a sense of rhythm, or with no sense of pitch, should not become a choir director--and is certainly not ENTITLED to such a position--there are some who should not become priests. Homosexuals are among them.

In fact, the 1917 Canon Law prohibited bastards and people with certain genetic or adventitious disabilities--and heretics, and self-mutilators. The '83 Code retains prohibitions on heretics and self-mutilators.