I forgot to add another motive for asking the foregoing: I am about to go out on the road for three months to give more of these presentations and I want to improve them. I have also been asked to write about this.

Gratefully,
Paul

Ask the average Canadian Catholic to recite the Nicene Creed and they'll either look at you with a confused look or scramble to find their national hymnal and read it out of the front sleeve.

Francis, I am a cradle RC, baptized 12 days after I was born in 1947; I've received six of the seven sacraments. Catholic schooled from 1st grade through graduate school. Taken the oath of fidelity, made the profession of faith, teach theology with a canonical mission at our archdiocesan seminary, served on the archdiocesan theological commission, serve on the archdiocesan liturgical commission, a benedictine oblate. I think that makes me RC enough . . .

The Children EP's were ad experimentum from 1975 to 1980 and were approved unconditionally in 1980; they are in the Missale Romanum 2002.

The Apostles Creed may be used in place of the Nicene Creed:

19. Loco symboli nicæno-constantinopolitani, præsertim tempore Quadragesimæ et tempore paschali, adhiberi potest symbolum baptismale Ecclesiæ Romanæ sic dictum Apostolorum.

Also, this is important to celebrating liturgies utilizing the EP for children.

http://www.nccbuscc.org/liturgy/q&a/mass/child.shtml

The times it was used in our parish this year, very few children were present. So it was somewhat an abuse of the rubrics. Not only that, but the words to the consecration were altered during the prayer, which likely made the Mass illicit or invalid.

We (a number of parishoner's concerned about the practice) were told the words of consecration were different in the EP for children. Just not so.

As you might suspect, "experimenting and being creative" with the liturgical rites often give rise to suspicion.

This is "creativity" at its worst.

No offense, but you haven't seen very many Masses, have you.

BTW... where is number 19 taken from?

The Ordo Missaeof the Missale Romanum.

I think the matter on the Magnificat threw me because you were hoping to get a musical setting on an unapproved translation for the LOH.

What is this matter in reference to? I have no recollection. I'm annoyed at what appears to be an assumption that I would do something illicit.

Mark is quite right: Using the Children's EPs at Masses where children are not in the majority is hardly " 'creativity' at its worst."

Playing fast and loose with the words of institution, however, is illicit at the very least and may be invalidating.

Just because the Children's EPs "were not included in the revised translation" does not mean that they are going to be dropped. They are in the Latin Missal, for goodness' sake!

Paul:

This was my understanding of LOH for clergy.

The copyright for the English-language translation of the Liturgy of the Hours themselves is held by ICEL, the infamous International Committee on English in the Liturgy. The readings and New Testament Canticles are from the New American Bible, whose copyright is owned by the US bishops’ conference.

My seminary uses only approved translations for reciting the LOH. I was seeking the simple and solemn toned canticles for use at Mass at communion, when Mass is combined with the LOH; in such situations any imprimatured translation can be sung.

Paul, I think your approach is well-conceived. A few thoughts:

1. The suggestion to "avoid using the Gloria" seems contradictory to your laudable advice to have congregations immediately learn the Latin "Gloria XV." Perhaps better advice would be "Avoid speaking the Gloria in English until it can be sung. Until such time, sing it in Latin, preferably Gloria XV."

2. I don't have any hang-ups about Rec., Children's, and VNO EP's, but I think that from a purely practical standpoint, priests should limit themselves to EP-I and EP-II, since those are the EP's most commonly used for Sunday and weekday Eucharist. I would recommend that they get these two prayers to the point that they are virtually memorized before delving into other options.

3. Regarding the singing of dialogues, presidential prayers, etc., let me say, "Amen, brother." This will serve the liturgy in many fruitful ways.

4. Might I suggest that this is an ideal opportunity for parishes to reflect on finally abandoning settings of the Mass Ordinary that are not exactly faithful to the official texts. (e.g., I still giggle every time I hear a church full of people sing "Jesus, slam of God.") It may also be a good opportunity to abandon the practice of singing "refrain-style" settings of the Gloria -- just because we *can* (and that point has been debated elsewhere on this forum) doesn't mean we *should*.

5. Regarding Joseph Michael's suggestion above, I think this is a great idea. I've been meaning to pair psalm verses with the Memorial Acclamation I wrote this past summer, and JM's suggestion finally gave me the impetus to sit down and sketch it out. See the attachment.

Olbash:

We sang your acclamation tonight at choir practice. The choir LOVED it. Beautiful work.

@olbash: really lovely.