UK Papal Visit
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,465
    Here's a website offering more info about the music for the UK papal vists. Looks better than other reports Iv'e seen.

    http://www.beingcatholic.org/news/2010/07/25/article-on-musical-preparation-for-bellahouston-mass.html
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    Excellent for Scotland. Thanks.
  • City of God, I was hoping that could of just been contained within the the United States until it wasn't sung anymore eventually.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Papal visit: The Vatican puts its foot down. The Pope will celebrate the main part of ALL the Masses in Latin, says Marini

    Monsignor Guido Marini, Papal Master of Ceremonies, confirms in an interview with Scotland’s Herald newspaper today that during his visit to Britain Pope Benedict XVI will celebrate the Prefaces and Canons of all his Masses in Latin, “to emphasise the universality of the faith and the continuity of the Church”.


    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100052595/papal-visit-the-vatican-puts-it-foot-down-the-pope-will-celebrate-the-main-part-of-all-the-masses-in-latin-says-marini/
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    Here's a link to the 'liturgy' page on the visit website. The page links to a .pdf version of the 'Magnificat' booklet that contains the papal liturgies and associated material, including music. The Bishops of the two Conferences (Scotland and England & Wales) are to be congratulated for making a million hard copies of this available for free.

    Interestingly, the only copyright notices I've seen so far are against music and non-liturgical texts - I can't find any references to copyrights on translations of liturgical material. Assuming I haven't missed something (and I'll grant my eyes aren't what they used to be), does this set an interesting precedent, or have the publishers explicity obtained permission to use translations without reference, and if so, why?

    ps I see the Holy father is to be serenaded with 'Amazing Grace' by the Strathclyde Police Pipe [Bag]Band. I'm sure he'll be amazed but have the grace not to show it.
  • Maureen
    Posts: 675
    Whoa, pard! The acknowledgements are on Page 478 of the PDF, and include copyright notices for The Roman Missal, The Liturgy of the Hours, The Jerusalem Bible, and the Grail psalms.

    Also, that tune is "New Britain"; "Amazing Grace" just happens to be set to it. It's unfortunate that people can't set the credits correctly, of course. Also, it's a bit odd to play a funeral pipe tune for the Holy Father, but that depends on what's being buried. The Alleged Spirit of Vatican II being buried by the Real Spirit of the Council Fathers, perhaps.

    (If you're going to be all shocked, be all shocked that Magnificat prints that as the hymn for Morning Prayer on one of the days before the papal visit; so they chose it of their own free will. And anyway, as a poetic account of an adult convert's experience of grace, there's nothing wrong with it. Sheesh.)

    Also, it's interesting that the statue of Our Lady of the Taper from Cardigan gets brought out for the occasion, given that Apocampo, Chile's statue of la Virgen de la Candelaria is also out of her usual shrine right now. Synchronicity....
  • AG to "New Britain" is the most popular piece of "bagpipe" repertoire. That is not to say that it is so popular amongst pipers! Most of them really hate it when asked to perform it. It has become a musical stereotype. It is requested just as often at weddings as at funerals. (Don't get me started on what Freud would have to say about that!) There are so many more interesting "laments" and fold tunes for the pipes - but no one is familiar with them except for pipers. There are also multiple versions of the piece, including one in 4/4 rather than 3/4. (It's a really bad sound when two pipers perform AG, and they're not playing the same meter!) An adjustment to melody needs to happen in the 3rd line if the pipes are accompanying the hymn being sung, at least as the melody appears in North American hymnals.
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    Maureen,

    :oops:

    Thanks for the correction of the copyright acknowledgements.

    However, my suggestion of Papal shock related to the wail of the pipes as they play "New Britain", not the tune or hymn, which I rather like.
  • Bagpipes certainly give an impression "wailing". But their actual loudness is quite a bit less than a really strong pipe organ reed stop. A pipe band outdoors will sound just fine. One or two pipers inside, especially with organ accompaniment, is a wonderful sound. My son and I have been doing it since he was in 6th grade, and had learned AG.
  • Do not be fooled. The music at Bellhouston Park in Glasgow is a travesty. James MacMillan's fine new setting of the Mass has had to be forced into the programme. Mgr Gerry Fitzpatrick, the priest in charge of the music tried his best to have it withdrawn because he thought it 'unsingable'! The Bishops of Scotland, in their infinite wisdom, have invited Susan Boyle to sing at the Mass ('I Dreamed a Dream' from Les Miserables etc). It will be terrible.

    IanW: Excellent for Scotland?! I think not.

    Scottish Catholic music is at an all-time low. You have no idea....
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    Maestro,

    My 'excellent for Scotland' referred to the value of the proffered link to those who wanted to know about music for the the Scottish part of the visit (I was trying to say "the link is only for Scotland, not the other part of the UK to be visited", without sounding picky to those who have no earthly reason to know the difference). It was not intended as a judgement on the music, which appears to be a curate's egg in both countries.
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    Steve,

    It's no coincidence that Scottish Regiments have, historically speaking, advanced on the enemy with bayonets fixed and bagpipes skirling. It would scare the life out of me.
  • IanW

    But that's just my point. You have bought into the stereotype, even if it does come from a historical source. Bagpiping today has come a long way from that point in time. It is an art, and it is beautiful. And, again, bagpipes are NOT as loud as many church organs CAN be.
  • Steve - about 'marching as to war': the last time pipers led the way into actual battle was in north Africa during WWII - the Germans were reportedly terrified and called them 'the ladies from (Hades)'.
  • Beautiful pictures, Jeff O. Many thanks for putting them up again. It's almost like a personal visit!
    One can only guess at what Newman's opinion about the music being planned for the papal visit would be.
    But then, Newman apparently did not care all that much for music - he said (somewhere) that 'music can hardly be considered an education'.
    What an unfortunate and insensitive position to hold... by anyone!
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    Newman was an active musician, and considered (in The Idea of a University) music to be the expression of ideas greater and more profound than any in the visible world. Susan Treacy has written an article on John Henry Newman and Music for Adoremus.
  • I was never so glad to be corrected! Nor do I recall where I thought I read the sentiments alluded to above... I had thought it Was in The Idea of a University. How happy I am to have been mistaken.
  • Maureen
    Posts: 675
    The Idea of a University was pretty stern about restricting universities to their traditional study of the liberal arts (and theology), which includes music as one of the Seven but would never call someone to study only that one. In Newman's view, technical education or a research institute wasn't really a university thing.

    Re: bagpipes -- Anyway, there were single reed bagpipes all over Europe and the Mideast (probably all over the world), and they were a Roman instrument. Heck, they were a traditional Bavarian instrument!

    Medieval German bagpipe music on YouTube
    Live medieval German bagpipes in Wurzburg
    Medieval German band Corvus Corax playing "Stella Splendens" (Which is nice, because it's a Red Book of Montserrat tune, and there are pictures of bagpipers on a lot of Spanish pilgrimage route churches. Not church music, though; it's a dance tune for helping people stay awake all night during the vigil of a holy day, and it was danced outside on the square. It has religious words, though.)

    One of the nice things about Holy Family in Dayton is that a couple of the stained glass windows include bagpipes (dudelsacks, anyway) as motifs. One is clearly supposed to be a shepherd's bagpipes, but I can only suppose that the one associated with Christ's Passion is supposed to be a Roman military one. And of course angels are notorious for playing bagpipes as well as harps and other instruments, though not in the pictures in that church. :)
  • I am so grateful to Martin Baker for the wonderful music he has planned for the Papal visit to Westminster Cathedral. The music is excellent. At least there is one place where we can all be proud to be Catholic!
  • Baker has been gracious in the past in responding to email questions as well.
  • rob
    Posts: 148
    "I dreamed a dream" at Mass?! I certainly hope you're joking or mistaken. I cannot imagine any place in Catholic devotion or liturgy for such a bitter and despairing tune.
  • image

    Published by Bishops of England and Wales.
  • Maureen
    Posts: 675
    My understanding was that Boyle wasn't performing at Mass, but rather at a concert beforehand or afterward. (Presumably to kill time for the poor pilgrims trapped in their fenced pilgrim area.)
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    I think that handy visual aid would be far more helpful if the columns were reversed. Perhaps it was meant to say, "Here are the terms you usually use when you are thinking of this sort of thing. Don't say that. Use this term instead. Don't say table, say altar."
  • ."A senior Catholic insider said last night: ‘This booklet is most unfortunate because it risks exposing the Church to ridicule once again."
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    No, I don't think they did. I think they said, "Look, you boneheads, don't call it bread and wine. Call it what Catholics call it: the Blessed Sacrament, or Holy Communion."
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Here's more information about the pamphlet from the Daily Mail.
  • I hope Msgr. Marini sends a nice letter to the UK bishops telling them how embarrassing this pamphlet is.
  • Sorry, I have the "." concession, used when holding my tongue...well, trying to.
  • Maureen
    Posts: 675
    The Pope is in Scotland! Amazing St. Ninian's Day parade of parochial schoolkids -- also, a thousand pipers. :)

    There's a video from the Telegraph. It shows Susan Boyle in her parish church, which looks very nice. She says that what she'll be singing is a secret, so who knows?

    (It sounds like she's got a bit of a cold, so let's hope she feels better by the day. You can certainly tell that good nutrition makes a difference to health, though; when she first hit the scene, she had that slightly malnourished look that comes with middle-aged genteel poverty.)
  • Mark P.
    Posts: 248
    I just heard the choir singing "Soul of My Saviour" during Communion. It was the Maher tune. Wonderful!
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    Beautiful visuals: long twilight shadows and wind-blown chasubles.
  • I'm happy - I heard a harp!
    Now I just have to find the piece.

    I thought it wasn't half bad for a stadium Mass. I'm a big fan of MacMillan and urge people to explore his wide range of compositions. He even writes for his own parish choir.
  • Friday, 1:20 EDT. Waiting for Pope and Archbishop to arrive in Westminster Abbey, the choir is singing....If ye love me by Tallis.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    ...followed by some bloody awful nonsense.

    And then Christ Is Made the Sure Foundation--nice one.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    The choristers are seriously distracted.
  • Do you know the tune name?
    I couldn't help but notice that some of the Anglican clergy, without books in hand, were singing along the hymn, even into verses 3, 4, and beyond.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    It's even more apt than I'd thought--the tune is Westminster Abbey. The text is JM Neale's translation of Angularis fundamentum.
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    ...followed by some bloody awful nonsense.

    Kathy, are you English?
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    Hahahaha.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    After multiple events--Mass, youth greeting, Welsh greeting--the Holy Father shook the hands of the choir, who stood along the walls in a hallway of the cathedral. First he greeted, one by one, a number of the boys, then he crossed the aisle to the men. Then back to the boys. What was remarkable was this: he remembered where he had left off. He shook the hand of the next boy in line.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    The post-Communion hymn of praise, which visibly moved many in the congregation:

    "O Bread of Heaven, beneath this veil
    Thou dost my very God conceal:
    My Jesus, dearest treasure, hail!
    I love Thee and, adoring, kneel;
    Each loving soul by Thee is fed
    With Thine own Self
    in form of Bread.

    O food of life,
    Thou Who dost give
    The pledge of immortality;
    I live, no ‘tis not I that live;
    God gives me life, God lives in me:
    He feeds my soul, He guides my ways,
    And every grief with joy repays.

    O Bond of love that dost unite
    The servant to his living Lord ;
    Could I dare live and not requite
    Such love - then death were meet reward:
    I cannot live unless to prove
    Some love for such unmeasured love.

    My dearest God! Who dost so bind
    My heart with countless claims to Thee!
    O Sweetest love, my soul shall find
    In Thy dear bonds true liberty.
    Thyself Thou hast bestowed on me;
    Thine, Thine for ever I will be.

    O Mighty Fire, Thou that dost burn
    To kindle every mind and heart!
    For Thee my frozen soul doth yearn;
    Come, Lord of love, Thy warmth impart;
    If thus to speak too bold appear,‘
    Tis love like Thine has banished fear.

    O Sweetest dart of love Divine!
    If I have sinned, then vengeance take;
    Come pierce this guilty heart of mine,
    And let it die for His dear sake
    Who once expired on Calvary,
    His heart pierced through for love of me.


    Beloved Lord, in Heaven above
    There, Jesus, Thou awaitest me,
    To gaze on Thee with endless love;
    Yes, thus I hope, thus shall it be:
    For how can He deny me Heaven,
    Who here on earth Himself hath given?"
  • This hymn in two tune settings, may be purchased at www.thecatholichymnal.com in the collection: Eucharistic Hymns, a Collection of Catholic Hymns.

    However, we recommend The Anthology, which includes all of our books Eucharistic Hymns and Hymns To Mary and a section of Benediction Hymns.

    And, though these are for sale...and at a discount for buying more than one...if you are not able for any reason to pay for them, please download The Anthology for free here.

    [the same with the Catholic Choirbook 1 at www.thecatholicchoirbook.com]
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    I didn't have a chance to watch it. Was there any Propers, even in vernacular and/or Latin Ordinaries sung?
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    I didn't see the processional, so I don't know what was sung. The Cathedral certainly sings introits, this was Christmas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg8CQ7Klcds

    There was a Psalm sung during the Communion Procession. The hymn above was sung after Communion, in accordance with GIRM 88: this is a perfectly legitimate usage of hymnody within the Novus Ordo Mass.

    The Offertory was a motet by Bruckner on the text of Philippians 2:6-10. I do not know if this was a proper text for this particular Mass.

    The execution and choices seem to me to exemplary. Here is a page with some videos from the Mass:

    http://www.youtube.com/results?uploaded=d&orig_query=westminster+cathedral+3/5&search_query=westminster+cathedral+mass&search_type=videos&suggested_categories=24,10,19&uni=3
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Thanks, Kathy. I didn't get to see all. But it is very beauiful. Chant and Latin prayers. Our Holy Father was saying the Eucharistic prayers in Latin and all other bishops join in Doxology in Latin. Made me cry. I'm sending this link to our children's schola, when they hear the same "mortem tuam' that we sing, they will be so happy and proud.

    Our Pope will help us and lead us, Catholics, to experience the "sacred" that is lost in modern time.
    Long live our Pope!!!
  • Mark P.
    Posts: 248
    Solemn Pontifical Mass of the Precious Blood celebrated by His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI
    "Tu es Petrus" MacMillan
    Introit: "Redemisti nos"
    "Mass for five voices" (K, G, S, A) Byrd
    Alleluia: "Caro mea"
    Credo III
    Offertory: "Christus factus est" Bruckner
    Communion: "Unus militum"
    "O sacrum convivium" Hassler
    "Ecce sacerdos magnus" Bruckner
    Organ: "Fantaisie sur le Te Deum et Guirlandes Alleluiatiques" Tournemire
  • KTO has video on demand of a number of liturgies and addresses of the Holy Father in the UK. Here is the Mass from Westminster Cathedral. The ecumenical service from Westminster Abbey is also available, as is the Mass in Glasgow.