Absolutely there are plans. I know that revisions are currently in the works. I haven't yet heard what the expected timetable is, though. I don't think they expect it to be ready for a while yet, unfortunately, though good work is definitely being done!

While you still have it from the library, take a look at number 42, a chant/polyphonic/chant Lamb of God. Gorgeous!

Yes, there are active efforts underway, but I wouldn't expect it to be completed on a timeline that competes with the major publishers.

Does anyone know where this book may be obtained?

Randolph

Do you know if any decision has been made regarding Psalter translations that are to be used - do you think the hymnal will continue to use a variety of approved translations for them? That is, as was explored in another thread here a few months ago, GIRM 61 allows more flexibility regarding the approved translations from which sung psalm texts may be drawn:

http://musicasacra.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2992

Liam,

As important as it is, this is one of those forementioned "close to the vest" issues. I have been under the assumption, however, that if any newly translated psalm requiries a major revision of an existing Marier musical setting the older translation will be retained. I could be all wet but that has been the consensus among the troops.

Randolph,

PS: At the 9:30 Mass, we re-introduced #42 (discussed earlier in this thread) during Eastertide, and I believe it was well-received.

I second Jeffrey. I don't imagine the late Dr. Marier would object to my adapting "Blessed are those who fear the Lord" to "Happy are those who fear the Lord" to conform with the current translation (or is it the reverse?) or fitting a slight revision of the text to a psalm tone. But when there's a major change needednor a completely different antiphon, those are the weeks that I reach for Kelly, Rice, Schmitt, or even Gelineau (on occasion) instead.

Though I considered letting this topic fade into forum oblivion, it is only fair to Heath and others that there be some response. The short answer is a new “Hymns, Psalms and Spiritual Canticles” will not be forthcoming anytime soon. There are a number of contributing factors complicating the process: we are talking about a complete revision and not a reprint; though HPSC is a parish hymnal, the parish does not own the rights of publication; deference must be given to wishes of the Marier family who are the primary financial supporters of the revision; the implementation and musical implications of the new missal texts and Grail psalter must be carefully considered and reviewed; the new leadership of the choir school and parish has introduced a reexamination of the quality and vision of the project; and developments in technology bring into question the very function and necessity of traditional hardbound hymnals.

That’s quite a mouthful, but let me expand a little on one item mentioned above. I think most of us at St. Paul’s think having a new and very young music director, who comes from an environment where the name Theodore Marier has no iconic status, has created an unexpected yet healthy self-examination. Since some of us are accustomed to mentioning Marier in an almost reverential tone, as if his ideas and compositions stem directly from the Holy Mount, it is startling to hear someone say that some aspects of his work are dated and can be improved. (I’m referring to some chants, hymn choices and harmonizations.) The talents of our new director are so impressive, though, most of us are willing to allow him the time to make his case. And I think some of his thinking too will evolve with more exposure to the current edition of the hymnal.

There will be a hardbound revision; it just won’t be printed within the timeframe we all had wanted. In the end, however, we'll have a better, more enduring hymnal.

This all strikes me as completely reasonable. The time frame for reprinting is passed, it seems. the book will continue to be there to inspire a new generation that moves forward. Dr. Marier's legacy still lives.

Jahaza, there are permission issues -- too many -- even for that.

HPSC has been our primary hymnal for the past 25 years. A few years ago, we had all the books rebound. I hope they last until the revision is printed. It is like Advent....waiting, waiting, waiting.

I never met Dr. Marier, but after singing his music for a quarter century, I feel that I know him very well.

I'd be willing to sell mine. Contact me at markpraigg(at)yahoo.com.

The consensus at St. Paul’s is that a HPSC revision, at least as originally envisioned, is never going to happen. The parish now uses a soft-cover book created by John Robinson that includes most of the settings of the Ordinary found in the original hymnal, but with adaptions to accommodate the new English translations.

A significant change in the new book is that Marier’s much beloved Psalter settings have been replaced by the new Grail texts sung in a liturgy-of-the-hours style with the antiphon, based on the psalm tone, sung only at the beginning and at the end. For the verses, the boys sing the first two lines and the congregation, with men leading, sing the third and fourth lines. Because this has been a controversial move, a compromise has been worked out whereby the Marier psalms are retained at the 9:30 a.m. Mass (when the parish volunteer choir sings).

The old hymnal of course remains in the pews, but it is used primarily for hymns. Many of us are hoping that those portions of the hymnal not restricted by legal complications will soon become available to all on-line.

I have a pew book of Marier, but I would like to get a copy of the ORGAN ACCOMPANIMENT book. Anyone willing to sell ?

me quoque

Where can one locate that book by John Robinson?

What a shame that they are not going to at least make an effort to reissue the HPSC.... There are so few good hymnals out there, and especially with the sung responses, at least responses that sound good.

JMO

GIRM 61, with the US adaptations. Discussed deep in this old and much-referenced thread, but has been noted elsewhere for years too (it's just one of those Catholic church musician chestnuts that tends to be ignored by non-musicians):

http://musicasacra.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2992

Bottom line: New Grail will be the exclusive translation for recited responsorial psalms in the liturgy. But for sung psalms, prior translations are effectively grandfathered until they are abrogated (and, we now know from Summorum Pontificum, that abrogation of liturgical texts needs to be express, and requires more than issuing new editions, et cet.) Policy-wise, it makes perfect sense, because re-setting psalms, which by their nature are intended to be sung, is a more labored thing that dealing with texts that are recited.

Dear Liam,

I certainly understand all that, and have written and posted about it at length, as have many others on this forum. The question (for me at least) is this: is it really true that a Psalm translation variant approved by a Bishop for Liturgical use in, say, 1969 is still approved in 2005? 2025? I've never seen this addressed by any authorities. To my knowledge, nothing you cite (above) addresses this, but I would be glad for more information. Thanks, in advance!

I understand that it is permitted to use any previously approved translation for the psalm text (verses), but what about the antiphons (refrains)? These were revised for the 1998 lectionary, and from what I understand, these were done by ICEL independently of the biblical translation and were meant to be uniform no matter which translation they were coupled with (i.e. in the old days when there were three approved lectionary translations (NAB, RSV and Jerusalem), the antiphon was always the same).

So are we permitted to sing "Happy are you who fear the Lord" instead of "Blessed are those . . . "? or the old "Father, I put my life in your hands" on Good Friday (as it is in Dr. Marier's hymnal) instead of the current "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit"? I see plenty of churches doing it, but was wondering whether it was kosher.

The antiphons travel with the verses in terms of permitted treatment depending on whether they are sung or merely recited. The GIRM 61 doesn't distinguish between the antiphon and verses.

Contact me off forum if you need scans of anything from this hymnal

My first post on this forum::

I wonder if anyone can send to me a scan of the hymnal for private use. I am part of a small music choir and the director and I want to use it for our own musical benefits to develop our skill. If anyone could suggest or email, Hohlflutephat@gmail.com is my address. We will print out about 20 hymnals on our own since it is out of print-that is why I ask for a high quality scan. I think the sorprano lines are so fun and easy and lovly. I am a sorprano also. I look forward to singing this lovly music. With my group too.

Thanks you for your help.
Phil

Phát (Phil) Hoh

Be aware, Phil, that the hymnal is under copyright.

For what it's worth, someone has posted a copy on Scribd.

Bfranck (and everyone else).
You clearly have many successes with your work in this hymnal! It makes me more excited to use it in my chorus. Its used for education in my choir, so i don't think copywrite is a problem. Will try scribd.
Is the Ward method too worth trying? How can i get a start with Ward method?

Thanks.
Phil (Phát Hoh)

{ Hohlflutephat@gmail.com is my email to anyone with advice }

In light of recent posts on this thread, I feel obligated to share some observations about the current state of the music program at St. Paul's, Harvard Square, Cambridge and the progress towards a new St. Pauls' Hymnal.

I have been attending St. Paul's in Harvard Square off and on for 22 years. With all due respect and admiration for the great work that has gone on there before John Robinson's arrival, I can say with great confidence that the boy choir and men's schola both sound the best I've heard them in those 22 years. The quality of the singing is simply extraordinary, and the musical literacy of the students in the program is evident to anyone who takes the time to speak with the students, observe a rehearsal, or examine the achievements of recent graduates of the program.

While abandoning the Ward Method might be a disappointment to some, the move is far from "a clear tragedy." The boys are very fine sight-singers, and they perform much, much more Gregorian chant now than they have in recent memory. In the past two decades, St. Paul's might have had two or three of the Mass ordinaries coming from the chant repertory -- a refreshing change from virtually everything within a 100-mile radius of Boton, to be sure -- but hardly as "steeped" in Gregorian chant as it is today. Now, Gregorian propers, as well as ordinaries, are more and more frequent at St. Paul's, with a clear movement toward the Latin Novus Ordo. Antiphonal singing of the psalter on the psalm tones is also having a strong impact on the Gregorian flavor of the liturgy there.

I would also like to make the case that John Robinson most certainly was a "natural fit" for the position. There simply are not many people in the U.S. who have any sort of experience with a boy choir school, and looking to England was a logical step. And while his musical influences are certainly informed by his experiences with Anglican cathedral choirs, his liturgical influence is much more in line with Brompton Oratory, or perhaps St. John Cantius, Chicago. As recent converts to Catholicism, John and his wife are zealous advocates of the Faith, and they have been working tirelessly to promote the Catholic identity of the school and the parish music program. Furthermore, as an organist, John is certainly one of the finest in the U.S. His interpretation of the literature is thrilling, his hymn playing is commanding yet organic, and his improvisation is intensely Catholic, with vocabulary from every good Catholic source from Greogiran Chant to Langlais and Messaien painting a breathtaking soundscape for the divine liturgy.

Very early on in his tenure, I had a frank conversation with John about his intentions for the program. He articulated a bold vision for drastically improving the choral sound of the men and boys, using Gregorian propers and ordinaries, moving the choir to the loft (the acoustically superior location), and making major renovations to the current hybrid pipe/digital instrument. Even the name of the school -- Boston Archdiocesan Choir School -- would be changed to St. Paul's Choir School, and the Boston Boy Choir name would be abandoned altogether. (After all, it is, first and foremost, a parish choir.) Regrettably, the rapid implementation of this vision was not executed without a few missteps, and some dear friends of mine have been hurt in the process. But, now that time has passed, even some of John's most vocal critics have come to admire the results he has acheived over these past few years.

As for the hymnal, there will be no second edition of HPSC coming from St. Paul's. HPSC is a wonderful resource, and I refer to it constantly. While I never met Theodore Marier personally, I can honestly say that he shaped who I am as a church musician today through the HPSC hymnal. That being said, it would be impractical to issue a second edition of HPSc, at least not anything that would closely resemble the current volume. Responsorial psalms and metrical psalms -- the primary features of HPSC -- are no longer the norm at St. Paul's. Copyright costs for much of the rest of the content of the hymnal is prohibitively expensive.

There will, however, be a new St. Paul's Hymnal; and, according to the word on the street, this could be happening this year. Some of the features will include a complete psalter designed for antiphonal singing, a large expansion of the number of hymn texts and tunes, SATB harmonizations in the pew edition, a number of devotional hymns, and the use of original texts wherever possible. It's getting late, and I know I'm missing some of the other features I've heard about, but this new hymnal is going to be the critical linchpin for moving the music program forward at St. Paul's.

I hope that this thread remains a lively discussion about "Hymn, Psalms, and Spiritual Canticles" and steers clear of uncharitable remarks about St. Paul's. Perhaps a compendium of the revised works of Theodore Marier, adapted from HPSC, could be developed by an entity other than St. Paul's. Perhaps the person to do that is reading this thread right now!