Christus Vincit
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 181
    Hi all,

    For a tiny choir of two ladies and a female cantor, and a parish of mostly Latin-challenged, non-singers, would it be appropriate to accompany the Christus Vincit on the organ?

    If so, could someone recommend a good accompaniment? I briefly checked NOH but the melody is not the traditional one. Maybe I missed it?

    Thanks in advance!
  • CaleferinkCaleferink
    Posts: 473
    What do you mean by "the traditional one"? The Kunc? Plainsong? I found a Kunc accompaniment here: https://archive.ccwatershed.org/media/pdfs/15/03/29/01-55-48_0.pdf For the plainsong, I've found a "lead sheet" (melody and chord symbols) on MuseScore: https://musescore.com/song/christus_vincit-6519625?srsltid=AYCX9vKyaiyRK0ZtAe-HDMp0K4hXnab-Hh_zhfk2v_6J2by3QnQF2J0T To answer your first question second, I think it's perfectly fine to accompany it on organ if they need a boost, especially the Kunc. I know others may disagree on organ accompaniment of chant, but I'd rather have it done well with accompaniment than poorly without it.
    Thanked by 2Roborgelmeister CHGiffen
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 181
    Thank you Caleferink. The one I need is the chant Laudes Regiae. I just now found a version of it on another forum thread. It's ok but written in 8th notes.

    I appreciate your comment about accompanying the chant, especially since I have no male voices. I'll see how the ladies do in rehearsal and then decide if I will play accompaniment.

    Thank you again!
  • probe
    Posts: 282
    The Musescore Official one is by Laurence Bévenot and requires $6.99 purchase.
    Christus Vincit (Arr. Arranged by Lawrence Bevenot OSB 1901-1991) - Plainchant

    There is a free choral Musescore Laudes Regiae but print only, not download mscz at https://musescore.com/user/8551836/scores/12592915

    The Laudes Regiae square note PDF at https://scholamalverniensis.chessck.co.uk/api/blobs/site3973?path=Christus%20vincit%20(updated).pdf says "Based upon an original chant transcription by Dom Laurence Bévenot OSB (1901-1990) from Codex F, 160 of the Worcester Antiphoner (13th cent.), first published in Music and Liturgy, October 1940, copyright © Society of Saint Gregory, and in which all rights are reserved. The present edition may be freely copied for non-commercial purposes."

    Today I learned "'Christus vincit' is the anthem of the Society of St Gregory, the national society for music and liturgy in England and Wales"

    Here's the CCWatershed organ version, no attribution that I can see: https://archive.ccwatershed.org/media/pdfs/15/03/29/01-55-48_0.pdf

    And also at the Institute of Christ the King.

    P.S. Off topic but this obituary of Laurence Bévenot in the Ampleforth Journal (old insecure http, not a problem) is a most entertaining read.
  • probe
    Posts: 282
    I have a question for the scholars. Listening to the two chants, the Laus Regiae sounds more militant to my ears. It reminds me of a Crusader chant, a time in Church history I would not be keen to evoke. Could anyone say anything about the history of the two melodies? You can refer me to a source if would take too much time to explain. TIA.
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  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 833
    It reminds me of a Crusader chant, a time in Church history I would not be keen to evoke.


    Why not?
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • TLMlover
    Posts: 181
    Thank you everyone, for the links and auggestions. I think I'm not going to risk the Laudes Regiae "Crusader chant" version. It was my plan, but I have no men's voices and I'm worried it will just go right over everyone's heads and possibly be too long for the offertory.

    Instead, I'll do the Montani version with English psalm-tone verses to Psalm 116 Laudate Dominum. I found that on this forum, I think, from an older thread.

    It's not the Laudes Regiae but the people might sing it since it's just a small refrain. I don't think their heads would explode from such a tiny but of Latin.
  • Chant_Supremacist
    Posts: 387
    The Laudes Regia is fantastic when it's BIG, so organ is not a problem. I'd want more than 2 singers. Hopefully you have big voices. Edit - maybe a good choice to wait until the choir is larger. Ime, even at a congregational-singing-challenged parish, people do pick up the Montani refrain easily.

    LR could fit in the TLM offertory if you shaved off a couple of the verses.

    Re: history, not a scholar by any margin, but my understanding is that it was patterned off of triumphal litanies for Roman victories, so yes militant is a key word, if that wasn't clear from the text alone.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw probe
  • RoborgelmeisterRoborgelmeister
    Posts: 443
    The Laudes Regiae was sung magnificently for the Installation of Pope Leo. Nothing wrong with the Kunc/Montani, but the Ambrosian style chant is quite stirring, and must not be sung slowly.
    In the hymn "To Jesus Christ, Our Sovereign King," the final word as originally written by Msgr. Hellriegel was "Commander!" It was written as a counter-blast to Nazism.
    Thanked by 4CHGiffen probe oldhymns Chant_Supremacist
  • probe
    Posts: 282
    @trentonjconn the use of Christian endorsement of wars of conquest on the Middle East.
    At least that's how I remember it. The real story is, as usual, 'it depends' as discussed in:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Catholicism/comments/158h1uc/how_do_modern_catholics_view_the_crusades/

    @roborgelmeister has just provided more insight on its use.
  • probe
    Posts: 282
    Following on RobOrgelMeister's post I searched for more info:
    https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/18521/laudes-regiae-christus-vincit/p1
    and I find it was composed by French church musician Aloys Kunc around 1882.

    I've listened to the Laudes Regiae for Pope Leo's installation:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMFhsVo2NvU
    It is the same as the Ambrosian version at
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jB8oVatCf4

    An EWTN commentary says "The procession is accompanied by the ancient Laudes Regiae in Gregorian Chant, a special litany invoking the saints to intercede for the Pope's sanctity as he begins his ministry as the successor of St. Peter."
    Is that specific to a Mass for the Pope or is it also suitable for Christ the King, Nov 22?

    Yet another version is the Tonus Simplex which includes the psalm "Laudate Dominum"
    https://gregobase.selapa.net/chant.php?id=20965
    Source: 1951 - Cantuale Romano-Seraphicum (Franciscan), p. 266.

    Choices, choices...
  • RoborgelmeisterRoborgelmeister
    Posts: 443
    Laudes Regiae (from an Ambrosian Chant) appeared in many editions of The Peoples [sic] Mass book with an English translation. And the same in Pius X hymnal, see attached.
    Christus Vincit PIUS X HYMNAL 1953.pdf
    226K
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  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 3,434
    We sing the Laudes Regiæ every year for Christ the King. And yes, it is definitely appropriate for that day. It is a chant of praise that also pleads for those in civil authority; a sort of hybrid between a litany and the Te Deum.
    Thanked by 1Chant_Supremacist
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