"Svatý Vaclave" is this a vesper hymn?
  • Ralph BednarzRalph Bednarz
    Posts: 504
    We must sing the hymn "Svatý Vaclave." We ususally use a 4 part hymn but I have recently uncovered this version ( http://gregorianchant.weebly.com/svaty-vaclave.html )
    ">click here
    which resembles a vesper hymn. Any info on this hymn or sources for better copies would help.
    I found this dissertation but but cannot understand the language.
    http://othes.univie.ac.at/2003/1/2008-10-14_0109523.pdf
    this is the full text of verse one

    Svatý Vaclave,
    vévodo české zemĕ.
    Kníže naš, pros za nás Boha,
    Svatého Ducha, Kryste eleison.
    Ty jsi dĕdic české zemĕ, rozpomeń se na své plémĕ,
    Nedej zahynouti
    nám ni budoucím,
    Svatý Václave,
    Kriste eleison!
  • Maureen
    Posts: 679
    Okay... the first couple pages of the dissertation are in Czech, but after that it's in German (except for lots of quotes!). Google Translate thus comes into play.

    According to page 297 of the dissertation (I started skimming for the hymn from the back, so don't be impressed!), the oldest source for the hymn you've just cited is:

    Aegidius a S. Joanne Baptista: Wjenec Blahoslawenému a wěčně oslawenému knížeti Cžeskému/Mučedlnjiku
    Božímu/druhému Abelovwi, Swatému Waclawowi z dwauch a třidcýti růži geho swatého narozenji/žiwota, smrti
    uwítej... Praha 1643.

    So it's an old Czech (Bohemian) book, but not super-old. Probably not a super-duper old hymn, then, but you never can tell.

    On page 299 and following, there are translations of the hymn verses into German also.

    Here's Google's version of the hymn verse:

    Saint Wenceslas,
    Ruler of the Czech lands.
    Our Prince, pray for us with God,
    Holy Spirit, Christe eleison.
    You heir to the Czech lands, remember their race.
    Do not let us, her future, perish.
    Saint Wenceslas,
    Christe eleison!

    But there seem to be older sources (pictured toward the end) which only have the first bit of the song, up to the first "Christe eleison", and then go into different verses.
  • Maureen
    Posts: 679
    The shorter Latin version (which is possibly older) goes like this:

    Sancte Wenceslaë! O Dux terrae Bohemae!
    Princeps Noster! ora Deum,
    Spiritum Sanctum!
    Kyrie eleison.

    Aula Coeli pulchra est!
    Beatus, qui ingressus est!
    Vitam aeternam, ignem lucentem, Spiritum Sanctum, (videbit)
    Christe eleison.

    Opem tuam invocamus
    Tu nostri miserere!
    Moestos solare, mala cuncta pelle,
    S. Wenceslaë!
    Kyrie eleison!

    There are various versions of this, and they are shown on page 307 and following. The pictures of the older sources are on page 310 and following.
  • Maureen
    Posts: 679
    Okay... I've worked my way back a little further, and it seems that a setting of the piece was sung for Leopold I in Prague in 1679. He had come there to escape plague in Vienna, and so there was a great deal of public prayer that plague would stay away from Prague, of which this was part. Which explains the extreme emphasis on "Kyrie eleison".

    It does seem to have been sung at Vespers on various occasions, like St. Wenceslaus' Day, so I guess you're good to use it that way.
  • Ralph BednarzRalph Bednarz
    Posts: 504
    Maureen: Thanks for the help. Many of the eastern European nostalgic hymns are folksy and not unlike children's songs but a then are are those which have a great deliberate form, and carry their history within their melodies.
  • ian_udell
    Posts: 24
    With his feast day coming up, and our parish's patronal Solemnity, I decided to make a rudimentary translation of the St. Wenceslaus chorale. I would love any other ideas for translations.
    Svatý Václave.pdf
    27K
    Svaty Vaclave (1).pdf
    30K
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Roborgelmeister
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 457
    It's by no means a Vespers hymn and has never been used as one (in a liturgically decent Catholic context at least). In the Prague cathedral (the church first version of which St. Wenceslas himself founded, was later buried and has ever since been venerated in) it's regularly sung at Vespers, but as part of a procession after the Vespers, not as a Vespers hymn.

    Regarding its history even https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Wenceslas_Chorale is better informed than the posts above.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • probe
    Posts: 207
    After Mass on St. Patrick's day in our church, the pipe band plays 'Boolavogue', a ballad about rebels led by a priest. Definitely not a prayer to a patron saint, though I expect most countries with a history of oppression have similar patriotic songs.
    https://www.musicanet.org/robokopp/eire/atboolav.htm
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