Your Thoughts on Manalo’s “Spirit and Grace” as a theological sound Catholic Communion Hymn
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 760
    Maybe it was the Holy Spirit working his grace in my soul during communion, but this communion hymn didn’t sit well with me last night during our Pentecost Vigil, and when I say “didn’t sit well” I mean I experienced a vehement disgust for it’s theologically questionable lyrics. (If you’re not familiar with it, it’s here: https://dh8zy5a1i9xe5.cloudfront.net/shared/pdf/preview/20319z.pdf)

    I went home and actually read the text and it reads like the communion hymns I found the in the hymnal at the Presbyterian place of worship my choir sometimes rehearses in. I did a little more research this morning, and yes, this piece is included in OCP’s ecumenical hymnals. Furthermore, from what I can gather in a reasonable amount of time, the text does in fact, while probably not intentional, speak of Calvin’s Receptionism and Real Spiritual Presence communion theology, which is probably why Fr. Manalo couldn’t find anything on the Holy Spirit’s involvement in the Eucharist for communion hymns- Catholicism rejects both of these.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not denying that the Holy Spirit is involved in communion, but the Holy Spirit’s involvement is different.

    Does anyone else see this, or is it just me?
  • davido
    Posts: 1,213
    It’s shoddy poetry and even worse music. Get it in a boxed set with a rainbow stole.
  • ContinuousbassContinuousbass
    Posts: 390
    Well it's not my favorite tune.
    Indeed the wonderous mystery of the "real presence" of the Lord in the eucharistic species is attested to in GIRM #3, as related to our belief in Transubstantiation. image
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    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,635
    If the local pastor insisted/commanded (against better judgment) that it be included in a Catholic Mass, I would recommend the poor director of music strongly advise it ought not be as a communion hymn but rather as an offertory hymn to follow the Liturgy of the Word.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • francis
    Posts: 11,376
    The usual fluff of OCP.
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 839
    I saw this post and thought this would be a good opportunity to test my The Parish Inheritance and particularly the Hymn Analysis Template I developed for my parish of St. Mary's. The template is an internal tool for liturgical and doctrinal evaluation of hymn lyrics. I developed a C1-C4 category system, C1 being Catholic Liturgical, C2: Catholic Devotional, C3: Protestant Origin, and C4: Not Suitable for Catholic Liturgy. I have attached the complete analysis.

    In summary, the analysis of Ricky Manalo’s “Spirit and Grace” using the “A Parish Inheritance” framework reveals significant doctrinal ambiguities regarding Eucharistic Realism. While the hymn correctly utilizes the corporate, ecclesial voice of the assembly rather than resorting to unauthorized first-person divine speech, its sacramental theology is highly problematic.

    By shifting the focus of transformation away from the sacrificial conversion of the bread and wine onto the spiritualized gathering of the assembly (e.g., "Gather this drink and form us in Christ"), the text treats the elements primarily as functional symbols of a communal meal. Because it obscures the objective reality of the Real Presence in favor of a subjective, therapeutic focus on the community, the hymn fails to meet Catholic liturgical standards and is classified as Category C4 (Not Suitable for Catholic Liturgy).

    Spirit and Grace.pdf
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  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 760
    In summary, the analysis of Ricky Manalo’s “Spirit and Grace” using the “A Parish Inheritance” framework reveals significant doctrinal ambiguities regarding Eucharistic Realism.

    This is quite interesting, yet depressing about the quality of hymns published by OCP. I’m fighting the temptation to post your hymn analysis summary on the choir loft doors Á la Martin Luther. J/k
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Don9of11
  • francis
    Posts: 11,376
    Because it obscures the objective reality of the Real Presence
    it’s far worse than that… what it more importantly obscures is that The Mass is a sacrifice in propitiation for sin… sin which is daily committed… especially blasphemy and the unkept holy day of our Lord… God has revealed to us that these are the two things that offend heaven greatly, and “Veronicas are Required” to make amends.
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 1,112
    There are two ways of saying something about a hymn text: by looking at what is actually written, or by comparing it with what one thinks the text ought to be about. My impression is that here the text is being approached mainly in the second way.

    But based on the actual lyrics, I cannot find much that contradicts Catholic teaching on the Eucharist. The fact that the hymn gives expression to only one particular aspect of the Eucharist while leaving other aspects aside is not necessarily problematic in itself. What does matter, however, is how it fits within the parish repertoire as a whole: that repertoire should be sufficiently varied and, taken together, should provide a sound reflection of Eucharistic doctrine.

    The hymn is about transformation in Christ, the sacred exchange, deification, and the role of the Holy Spirit in that process. Its theological arc stretches from the offering of the gifts – bread and wine, work of human hands – through their consecration and the reception of Communion, toward the transformation of the human person in Christ: ‘Become what you receive: the Body of Christ.’

    There are, of course, also musical and poetic qualities to consider, and people may differ in their judgment of those. But as far as the content of the text itself is concerned, I do not think it contradicts what the Church teaches about the Eucharist.
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 760
    But as far as the content of the text itself is concerned, I do not think it contradicts what the Church teaches about the Eucharist.

    I disagree. It’s ambiguous and requires one to do mental gymnastics at best to come to that. In a parish where a large number of the congregation don’t have a particularly good catechesis on anything, particularly the Eucharist, as well as don’t have a sufficient grasp of English to understand metaphors, it’s problematic. It also violates the Diocesan directive that was issued when the corrected translation of the Roman Missal came out to not use hymns that refer to the Eucharist as bread and wine.
    Thanked by 2Don9of11 rich_enough
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 1,112
    It also violates the Diocesan directive that was issued when the corrected translation of the Roman Missal came out to not use hymns that refer to the Eucharist as bread and wine.


    Doesn’t that directive go against the teaching of the Church? In de Roman Missal as well as the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Eucharist is being referred to as ‘bread’ (‘panis’ in Latin). Should the hymn ‘Panis angelicus’ be banned?

    It’s about the way reference is being made to bread and wine. This song does that with the adjectives ‘blessed’ and ‘broken’, both making clear this isn’t just bread.
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 839
    Doesn’t that directive go against the teaching of the Church? In de Roman Missal as well as the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Eucharist is being referred to as ‘bread’ (‘panis’ in Latin). Should the hymn ‘Panis angelicus’ be banned?

    It’s about the way reference is being made to bread and wine. This song does that with the adjectives ‘blessed’ and ‘broken’, both making clear this isn’t just bread.


    Comparing "Spirit and Grace" to "Panis Angelicus" doesn’t really work. Calling the Eucharist “Bread of Angels” is very different from pointing to the altar and singing “this bread… this wine.” The word “this” refers to the physical object present, and calling the consecrated Host “bread” can suggest it remains merely blessed bread—a view closer to Protestant theology.

    As Catholics, we believe the bread and wine cease to exist after consecration; it is truly the Body of Christ. For that reason, Communion hymns should avoid language that could confuse the faithful at such a sacred moment.

    The USCCB’s guidance on hymnody is not rejecting tradition but ensuring modern texts clearly express Catholic teaching. As I note in A Parish Inheritance, every parish’s musical tradition deserves respect, but we are also called to discern whether our hymns fully reflect the faith—honoring what is good and refining what needs clarity.
  • francis
    Posts: 11,376
    Very well expressed Don. The error of protestant theology is riddled throughout many of the hymns about the Eucharist.
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 760
    Doesn’t that directive go against the teaching of the Church?

    If I remember correctly, and I usually do, the bishop made it clear he wasn’t referring to traditional terms of piety and devotion, etc.

    I can’t find the document on my Diocese’s web site anymore, but in the document on the Diocese’s implementation of Redemptionis Sacramentum, the bishop at the time also wrote that we are to refrain from referring to the Blessed Sacrament and Precious Blood after the consecration as “bread” and “wine”, making a particular note that this is in great need of improvement, particularly among EMHC.

    Considering I found our Lord on the floor in my parish and multiple people would have had to walk over Him to get to the pews they were in and was on the floor all day and nobody recognized Him and thought to go to the office and say something all day, I’m going to reiterate and stand firm on the importance of using clear and unambiguous language when referring to the Blessed Sacrament.
  • ContinuousbassContinuousbass
    Posts: 390
    But the song refers to "bread, blessed, broken and shared", not "bread blest". Also mentions Wheat and Vine, so? We must be referring to the Last Supper-- I completely don't see your point.
  • francis
    Posts: 11,376
    Bread is not blessed… that is a protestant rubric. Bread is transformed.
  • ContinuousbassContinuousbass
    Posts: 390
    The blessing is said over the bread and then over the wine. It is about how God is the blessed one who has given forth bread and wine, and it is chanted by Jesus during the last supper....and by his ancestors. That's the transubstantiation, not protestantism.
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 839
    @Continuousbass, you make a fair point about the historical roots of the Last Supper, but there is a crucial liturgical distinction we have to look at here.

    The prayers you mentioned—blessing God for the fruits of the earth—take place during the Offertory, when we are still dealing with ordinary bread and wine. But a Communion hymn is sung after the Consecration has already taken place.

    The issue with the phrase 'this bread, blessed, broken and shared' during Communion is that it limits the action to a historical reenactment of a meal. In Catholic theology, the priest doesn't just bless bread so it can be shared; by the power of the Holy Spirit, the substance of bread completely ceases to be.

    When a text focuses heavily on 'wheat, vine, bread, and wine' right as people are approaching the altar, it keeps the focus entirely horizontal on the physical creation, rather than vertical on the miraculous change that just occurred. As francis noted, our focus at Communion shouldn't be on bread that was blessed, but on Christ who has transformed the elements into Himself. It’s a subtle shift in language, but pastorally, it changes how the parish perceives the Real Presence.
  • ContinuousbassContinuousbass
    Posts: 390
    I don’t think the hymn is referencing our liturgy: during the consecration the priest says that Jesus took bread… “tibi grátias agens benedíxit”. The blessing Christ said, not the preparation of the gifts, and not Christ transforming something. God intervenes in our world by the power of the Holy Spirit, by the Holy Sprit was he conceived and born in Bethlehem (literally “the house of bread”). The priest calls upon God to send down the Holy Spirit to make the gifts holy. Honestly if you’de like to know more about the Catholic faith and the Holy Mass, I encourage you to talk to a priest as soon as possible.
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 839
    I appreciate the encouragement, but I think we may be talking past each other a bit, so I want to clarify what I am—and am not—arguing. I’m not denying the role of the Holy Spirit in the Eucharist, nor am I claiming that the language of “blessing” has no place in Catholic theology, especially in reference to the Last Supper. Those points are well established.

    The concern I’m raising is a different one: not whether a phrase can be interpreted in an orthodox way, but whether it communicates Eucharistic doctrine clearly and unambiguously in the specific context of the Communion rite.

    At the moment of Communion, the Church is not simply recalling the Last Supper or describing the preparation of the gifts—we are encountering the fully consecrated Eucharist, which is no longer bread and wine in substance, but the Body and Blood of Christ. Because of that, the language used at that moment carries a particular weight.

    When a hymn uses demonstrative language like “this bread… this wine”, especially in the present tense, it can reasonably be heard as referring to what is physically before us. In a setting where Eucharistic catechesis is already weak, that kind of phrasing risks reinforcing the idea that the elements remain bread and wine in more than appearance.

    So my critique isn’t that the text is explicitly heretical, but that it is pastorally and liturgically imprecise for use during Communion. A hymn can be theologically defensible in isolation and still be unsuitable in that specific liturgical moment if it introduces ambiguity where the Church intends clarity.Liturgical song must always explicitly mirror the lex orandi (the law of prayer) of the Rite.

    That’s the basis for my classification in the analysis.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,635
    And that's why I believe if TPTB insist on its inclusion during the Mass, it ought to be placed before the Liturgy of The Eucharist.
  • francis
    Posts: 11,376
    Don… very well put. Patient and charitable in your exegesis. Thank you.

    Protestant theology has no place in the Mass… before or after transubstantiation. Why? Because it introduces doubt, ambiguity and confusion in the Rite that has no place for such.

    This is a significant weakness of the NO. It introduces all three. This hymn would never be sung in or near the Traditional Rite for any reason. The music also carries a certain theological relationship to these kind of ambiguous texts, although, that is more difficult to explain in the limited scope of forum commentary.
    Thanked by 2Don9of11 davido
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,099
    It's not enough that a hymn text be able to be "interpreted" in an orthodox or Catholic way; it should be an expression of belief not requiring mental work to be understood correctly. Ideally a hymn text would become part of the prayer life of a community, and as such should not have to be "explained" to avoid an interpretation foreign to the faith.
  • ContinuousbassContinuousbass
    Posts: 390
    And the Apostles thought they were merely going to a Seder...I'm suprised it's not a Valse Ranchero yet. The Holy Spirit and giving thanks to God (grace) are the essential dialouge we have at mass. We don't let other faiths dictate how we express our universal one.
  • Saying a text should not require mental work comes a little close to saying it shouldn't be thought-provoking, or that poetic qualities are dangerous and should be minimized in favour of straightforward rhymed catechesis.

    I may be muddying the waters, because I'm not fond of the doctrinal content of the hymn in question either. I'm just wary of critique taking over-generalized forms.

    I'm thinking a little of verse 6 of Let All Things Now Living, in the CBW III, which begins "And you, most kind and gentle death.."

    Perhaps people find doctrinal problems in this hymn too. I mean, from the perspective of straightforward catechesis, I would say that death is a punishment given in justice from God. But God being both perfect justice and perfect mercy, his punishments are also mercies, and the verse simply takes up that perspective. I've always liked that this verse is thought-provoking and not just quotidian catechesis.
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,099
    I'm not saying that hymns should be simplistic catechesis or shouldn't be thought-provoking; they just shouldn't be confusing or misleading.