Generational Conflict between a young music director versus an aging and diminishing volunteer choir

Dr_Haze

I took over the music ministry at my parish in 2023 and have spent the past two years navigating what feels like a full-scale rebuilding while the train is already moving. In that time, I’ve led a parish-wide transition to the new Source & Summit missals, worked to elevate the overall quality of sung liturgy (chant, antiphons, cantor formation, and ensemble discipline), and balanced this alongside directing a full school music program which involves teaching around 200 students, running a girls' schola and an after-school children's choir. Structurally, much has improved: clearer musical planning, stronger cantors, better preparation, more active participation among parishioners (!) and a more coherent liturgical sound week to week. On paper—and audibly—the ministry is healthier, more intentional, and more aligned with the Church’s vision for sung worship than when I arrived. All of this progress has not evolved without several battles along the way.

My ongoing frustration lies less with music-making and more with pastoral dynamics, particularly with an aging core of long-serving amateur singers. The adult choir is unhappy with change. They seem allergic to chant, and are appalled that I have effectively placed more emphasis on chant during the mass than sacred polyphony. They are feeling underused and clearly want a return to the way things were when past music directors were given vast latitude in programming whatever music merely sounded good to them. There is a sacred file cabinet in our choir loft that has over 70 years worth of legacy repertoire that is "languishing" because I refuse to use it. But why am I avoiding it? Mainly for practical reasons. We don't have a bass section, for one. The average age of our singers is now well over 60. They haven't had more than 13 singers since before the pandemic, and whenever we've been able to add someone new, they don't stay for very long.

Things seemed to be going smoothly as we prepared to begin Advent, but now I'm entrenched in an unfortunate upheaval that started with unsanctioned mass emails being sent between choir members and parish staff behind by back, gossip, back talk, and collective whining. It has brought an enormous amount of angst and stress to several people within our parish, and many were caught off guard by this because ... nobody anywhere in the parish is complaining about the choir.

While my competency and preparation have not been questioned, I increasingly sense a bias rooted in age and change-resistance rather than musical substance. Some singers appear to externalize their own natural vocal decline, stamina issues, or learning challenges and place responsibility on my leadership, as though my presence accelerated what time and biology inevitably bring. I care deeply about honoring their service and humanity, but I’m struggling to discern how to balance truth, charity, and forward momentum without either enabling denial or becoming the convenient scapegoat for loss. I’d be grateful for insight from those who have navigated similar transitions: how do you pastor aging musicians honestly, maintain artistic standards, and protect your own vocation from quiet erosion?

Palestrina

Have you considered some light rearranging of the polyphony?

I think of the creative reworkings of 16th and 17th century convents as a good example of what is possible. I’m not suggesting you go out and buy a viola da gamba tomorrow, but might a light organ accompaniment that supplies the bass line (with other parts taking over where an essential text is involved) do the trick?

The CD ‘Sacred Hearts, Secret Music’ may provide some inspiration.

Chant_Supremacist

You may want to schedule a one-on-one with the priest to discuss things in light of the recent drama. It depends on how serious/egregious it really is.

Why don't any of the people who join stick around?

I don't have too many aging voices, but I do have choir members who prefer polyphony to chant. I think a reasonable balance keeps them satisfied. I've also chatted with them in an informal way about the various reasons behind my repertoire selection, which don't all come down to my personal preferences (section limitations are part of it), and they've been understanding. Maybe I'm fortunate.

These days I always bring choir woes, stresses, and triumphs in prayer to the parish patron. In my case, St. Ann. Since I started doing this she has been extremely solicitous. It's funny, in a wry way, I've found she doesn't perceptibly assist with my personal supplications (which are probably selfish anyway), but if it has to do with the worthy glorification of her grandson she is right on it.

wspinnen

I inherited a similar situation when I was just starting out. The choir closet at that parish was full of "legacy repertoire" which the older members were extremely nostalgic for. It was acquired in a time when the choir (supposedly) had around 60 members back in the 80's and 90's. The older members always talked about that music and about the director who built that repertoire, who I'll simply refer to as "JT." JT was there for about 25 years, was verbally and emotionally abusive to both adult and children's choir members, but got a pass for it because "the music was great," and how I was doing things was always compared to JT's.

One day, the pastor got fed up with the nostalgia for JT and told me to go in the closet and get rid of the legacy repertoire, which I think was the best decision in our case. Purging it felt great, like I was ridding myself and my eventual successor of dead weight.

I went in and found that most of the music they were nostalgic for, was cheap, mass printed music from Protestant catalogs like Augsburg and Concordia. There was also a lot of Gordon Young and Owen Alstott. Some of the music was properly Catholic, but the scores were in terrible condition and not worth saving.

I should also add, I had to wear a mask in that closet because of the amount of dust and dirt, and I had to wash those clothes twice.

A good pastor won't let his music director be walked on and mistreated, and I hope you have that support from yours. Definitely bring these problems to his attention and don't let it discourage you from continuing what you've accomplished. What I learned from my story and being compared to JT, is that no matter how well you do things, how hard you try, someone's going to give you a difficult time; it's no reflection of who you are as a person.

The Rosary will be your best "weapon" in this situation.

Roborgelmeister

I had one-on-one interviews with every member of a choir I inherited. I'd been forewarned that they would be challenging. I also checked their range (just sing America for me; start wherever it's comforatable). Two out of eighteen quit on the spot, and there were very few problems over the course of four years with those who stayed on. The problem was the priest, and it was worse with his replacement. The choir begged me not to go, but I knew this was a priest I couldn't / wouldn't work with.

PaxMelodious

Sounds to me like your adult choir is grieving, both their personal losses / aging, and also due to structural change in the church (abuse crisis effects, aging clergy leading to inevitable change, etc).

It's your pastor's job to pastor them. Your job is to deliver a music programme for the church. Of course that requires some care on your part, but be clear that your care is directed to enabling them to contribute to the music programme, it's not wide-ranging.

I'd keep the adult choir as part of the mix - and look to start some new initiatives that need to share the air-time that the adult choir get, eg a youth choir, or chamber chant group. Maybe some in your adult choir are ready to graduate to being in the funeral choir only?

Make sure that your relationships with the pastor, secretary, janitor and other significant people (whoever matters in your scenario) are solid enough not to be damaged by bouts of ranting.

Diapason84

There was also a lot of Gordon Young

I know we're talking choral music. But his original compositions for organ can be good for short notice needs (aside from the innumerable settings of syrupy hymn tunes).

Diapason84

unsanctioned mass emails being sent between choir members and parish staff behind by back, gossip, back talk, and collective whining

If you have evidence of these, make copies and share them with the pastor. I suggest meeting with him promptly to discuss this whisper campaign, which is subversive and unprofessional, regardless of the gossipers' volunteer status. You need to know now whether he has your back and will support your musical vision when the complaints increase. I am quite familiar with covert email communications between angry volunteers, staff, and clerics. If the pastor does not unequivocally stand with you now, consider brushing up your resume--no offense.

Diapason84

It depends on how serious/egregious it really is.

"Unsanctioned mass emails" among staff and volunteers are serious.

iMalton

I was recently told by a friend that Satan often enters churches through the choir loft. It's obviously a bit of a quip, but since the liturgy is beautified by music, of course he would attack it, and so there we find much cause for pride and frustration and general strong opinions lacking in compromise where the Church allows for such.

Currently I'm taking a break from my own schola for such unfortunate reasons, and I've had similar situations in the past too.

I'm in agreement with the other proposals above: communicate clearly with your parish priest. In my experience, if the priest is supporting you completely, you may have others who don't like it, but ultimately you work for him and he as parish priest is "chief liturgist". If he (or if someone higher than him, like the Chancellor or Bishop) is against your liturgical musical choices, there's really nothing you can do. I have unfortunately been at the brunt of this sort of situation as well.

Prayer, gentle tone, general cheerfulness when speaking, support from your priest, all these can help settle the situation. I wish you the best of luck smoothing out the situation.

Merry Christmas!

iMalton

Ah, I should also add "overly ambitious" to the list of church choir problems, which OP seems to mention and I've definitely also experienced. That's super hard to counteract because people can be so convinced it's still possible to sing some hard musical piece when truly it won't sound good due to lack of experience, numbers of singers, singers' tones, etc.

Abbysmum

Ah, I should also add "overly ambitious" to the list of church choir problems, which OP seems to mention and I've definitely also experienced. That's super hard to counteract because people can be so convinced it's still possible to sing some hard musical piece when truly it won't sound good due to lack of experience, numbers of singers, singers' tones, etc.

This, this and this. I am in the middle of this right now. I have been trying to gently encourage the selection of more appropriate music for our numbers, skill, experience, etc, but our director gets all starry-eyed about wanting to do a piece, regardless of the complexity and impracticality. I am "only" the accompanist for that particular choir, but because I'm involved in so many things and have my proverbial fingers in so many music pies (to butcher an idiom lol), I get most of the feedback from the congregation.

OP, thanks for bringing this up. You've gotten some good advice, I think. We're struggling a bit with this too, as both a generational shift and a cultural shift (due to a large number of new, young immigrants bringing their traditions into the parish) is occurring in the parish. It's difficult when the pastor is somewhat indifferent when it comes to matters of liturgy - thankfully, we've gotten some excellent feedback from our parochial vicar, and I've been able to use it gently steer the discussion.

Dr_Haze

Thanks so much for the thoughtful and helpful comments. Our pastor just recently joined our Parish. He was not prepared for this situation, as he himself is not at all musical as a priest, and he came from a Parish where there hadn't been any form of a music ministry for nearly 13 years. This has been an educational experience for him, and thankfully, from an administrative standpoint, he sided with me immediately and came to one of our rehearsals to address what he viewed as a 'spiritual problem', in that, it was his way of reminding us that the reason we are there is to serve God, serve the liturgy, serve the parishioners... but certainly not to serve ourselves. He told them to stop telling me how to do my job, and further mentioned that he's had nothing but positive views of my work, and positive feedback from parishioners.

The overt insubordination, doubt, and blatant disrespect is what really cut me deep this Advent, and it really ended up being the animus of two senior members of the choir who insist they speak for the whole group when they clearly do not. One of the senior members has been singing in the choir since the 1950's, back when only men and boys could join. He is also completely blind, and it is hard for him to keep up with all the chants and antiphons we cover on a weekly basis. It's a delicate matter, but it's hard to come out and say that nothing in my job description says anything about following the agenda of one senior member of the choir just because he's been there longer than anyone. I am working with our staff to come up with ways to curb volunteer participation, or maybe politely suggest to the man that his voice would be better suited from the pews along with the parishioners.

tandrews

Ah, I should also add "overly ambitious" to the list of church choir problems, which OP seems to mention and I've definitely also experienced.

Yup, just because you sang it in grad school with a choir of 70+ 20-somethings with all the resources in the world at your disposal does not mean that will immediately translate to a choir of a dozen septuagenarians and no men. You can get there, but you are in it for the long haul with SLOW changes. It's very humbling and I wish my grad school professors warned us back then that this is a legitimate challenge when you enter the professional sphere.

Diapason84

I am working with our staff to come up with ways to curb volunteer participation, or maybe politely suggest to the man that his voice would be better suited from the pews along with the parishioners.

Back to the OP's latest comment: sounds good, except I would avoid staff who have been responding to, or seem sympathetic to, the covert emails. Any ideas to filter participation should get the pastor's approval in writing before being implemented.

CharlesW

If you have enough people - that's a big if - you could form an older choir and let them sing periodically. You would have to be able to form a younger group to carry most services and functions using the argument that it would expand participation. I have been in a similar situation with oldsters - and I am no longer young myself - who don't realize their voices will not support the literature they once easily sang. "whatdya mean we can't sing the Franck Psalm 150 anymore?"

SponsaChristi

I was recently told by a friend that Satan often enters churches through the choir loft. It's obviously a bit of a quip

I’m not so sure that it’s a quip. Stay tuned for the Final Judgment for more information.

PaxMelodious

I’m not so sure that it’s a quip.

Absolutely not a quip. I had a parish priest who would not allow a choir for 15+ years, simply because of the poisonous behaviour from one that he had to deal with previously.

He's softened the stance a bit recently, because of years of working with people who see choir as part of the mix provided it's suitably directed into focus on liturgical service rather than music performance. But those early experiences really scarred him.

francis

I was recently told by a friend that Satan often enters churches through the choir loft. It's obviously a bit of a quip

i had a good priest friend who also said the same… back years ago when rectories had cooks, the kitchen was also included.

Anna_Bendiksen

I thought that was a Russian Orthodox saying?

kevinf

I am currently in my fourth place in which I have had to start from a place as earlier discussed. That seems to be my modus operandi these last years and I actually like it. The clue to the matter is the priest. In my present case, he removed all the GLory and Praise books, installed the Ignatius Pew Missal and when I came, he told the choir singers they could either stay and learn or clear out. Many simply vanished but some did come back. The ones who came back were not wedded to the past as much as they thought and have made the transition to Latin and the neumes reasonably well. I have a small group of 12 and they work really hard. In my choir room I have a shelf with G and P book, the old Gather 3 book and the OCP responsorial psalms with a title underneath which says "Honoring the past." In a few years they will have forgotten all of the junk, but right now it still is in their heads some. I refuse to honor old choir singers requests and remind them that it is our job to look to the future. We have a long way to go but we are well on the way because the priest had the courage to make the change. FYI; he celebrates ad orientem and sings quite well. I pray this will be my last place. Its almost time to retire.
My .02.

Kevin

MatthewRoth

You’ve done a lot of good work and have endured a lot. Many of us would not pack up and start again without throwing in the towel at the same time.

ServiamScores

My ongoing frustration lies less with music-making and more with pastoral dynamics

Welcome, friend.

While my competency and preparation have not been questioned, I increasingly sense a bias rooted in age and change-resistance rather than musical substance.

I have one choir member that has sung in the choir since "forever and ever, amen." She has complained vociferously about the fact that I don't do what my predecessor once removed did, back in the glory days of the 90's and early 00's. The problem is: she's the only choir member who currently dates to that time, so this is no longer a shared repertoire, and she, too, is very resistant to change or learning new things (chant). I had to have a bit of a come-to-Jesus talk with her once and explain point blank that this is not shared repertoire, and that if we are going to go through the trouble of learning new music as a choir, it's going to necessarily be music that fits our current ensemble, not singers who were here 20+ years ago, most of whom have left the parish, no longer sing, or have gone to their eternal reward.

I don't have too many aging voices, but I do have choir members who prefer polyphony to chant. I think a reasonable balance keeps them satisfied.

It is a real struggle to have more advanced singers who wish to do more, who are held back by the general dynamic. Two things have helped me in this regard: adding chant alongside other repertoire, rather than taking things away (start with adding in communion antiphons) and then sprinkling in a few harder things that I allow interested parties to volunteer to sing, rather than making the entire ensemble do them.

One thing though, is you really have to CATECHIZE the choir. You cannot simply plop chant in front of them in place of what they love. You have to teach them during rehearsal, over the course of months, about what the church actually teaches, and ease them into it. You have to help them come around to the idea of singing THE mass, rather than AT mass. (The same goes for the congregation. Bulletin columns and little talks before Mass are your friend.)

The clue to the matter is the priest.

I have long claimed that priests make or break a job. Which is precisely why you can have a great job, get a new priest, and then be forced to leave shortly thereafter, or you can grin and bear it through a bad priest, and suddenly the skies open up when a new pastor arrives. Priests are more important to me than the organ, size of the loft, number of members of the choir, or budget—and it's not even close.

ejklemz

I am in a similar position, (also a young choir director with aging choristers who romanticize the good old days of OCP and Hagen and the like), and have had to battle some of the same things. It's quite the...sanctifying...experience. But if the parish is being well fed by your efforts, that means the Holy Spirit is at work through you. Something that I've seen the most fruit in with my own tiny choir is praying a holy hour before rehearsal on Sundays, for the sake of my own spiritual life sure but offering it for the parish and choir. This is a bit of a sacrifice for me as it means an even earlier, longer morning, but I kid you not, once I started doing that (and implementing some actual discipline), people's attitudes changed. Ours is primarily a spiritual battle. It sounds like your pastor and parishioners are behind you, so keep doing good work!

ServiamScores

Holy hours (on Fridays) have really helped me too.

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