College Suggestions for Organ and/or Composition Major and Musical Wisdom Requested
  • A_Crabby_Crab
    Posts: 3
    Good afternoon to all,

    I am cautiously beginning to look for potential colleges to apply to. I am a sophomore in high school. For context, I am an organist, pianist and a bagpiper. If all goes well, I will soon begin to learn carillon also.

    My pipe dream (sorry for the pun) is to one day be an organist or music director at a church in Maryland, which is the state in which I live, and also to compose and teach piping/organ/piano. I love the liturgy and I love music and I want to serve and dedicate my life to it.

    I am seeking suggestions for colleges with organ and/or composition undergraduate programs based on the following criteria in no particular order:

    I would like it to..

    1. be either Catholic or have a strong Catholic presence.
    2. be close to a good bagpipe band
    3. be as close to Maryland as possible
    4. likely transfer at least some of my credits from the community college A.A I am beginning right now.
    5. enable my pipe dream of studying at the University of Saint Andrew's in their Sacred Music department.

    I am obviously also going to ask my teachers for recommendations but I would like to have some names so that I can begin planning.

    I also am seeking some help on where to start in regards to three issues I think are somewhat important.

    1. My knowledge of vocal music is severely lacking and I have had no formal instruction in singing aside from the children's choir (my voice is different now!). Also, I know next to nothing about chant. I know it is immensely important but I don't know how to learn it or where to begin. How should I begin to learn chant and is a teacher necessary in this regard (for voice or chant)?

    2. My compositional skills are also severely lacking. I often compose for pipes but to compose for organ or piano seems outlandishly difficult to me. Even more difficult is composing for instruments that I don't even play! How should one begin in this regard and should I perhaps abandon the idea of majoring in composition?

    3. I have no knowledge of conducting (instrumental or choral) and I foresee that this is an important skill to have. How should I start developing this skill?

    Just trying to figure some stuff out and if any of you have advice in this regard I will be incredibly grateful.

    God bless,

    Crab
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • CGM
    Posts: 733
    I'm sure that many people will have many opinions on this subject. Here's my $0.02:

    I'm not aware of universities that offer explicit and thorough training to become a Catholic church musician.

    From long experience with many musicians over many years, I'd recommend taking a close look at the entrance requirements for Westminster Choir College, in nearby New Jersey. I've worked with many Westminster graduates over the years — singers, organists, conductors — and I've found them all to be first-rate musicians. While the program is not a Catholic music program, it is a profoundly excellent grounding in music, and will serve you well for the entirety of your career.

    On a related track, one of the best programs of organ study in the country is at Rice University in not-nearby Houston, and the organ program has an emphasis in "church music skills".

    For a bit further in the future, there's an exceptional graduate program in sacred music at Yale University — the Institute of Sacred Music, in not-so-far-away Connecticut. If they accept you, the tuition is free, and the program is very fine.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,438
    Dear Crab -

    For bagpipe matters contact Anthony Masterson, a piper of international repute who lives in Houston. He gives pipe tutelage on line as well as in person. I'm sure that he would be glad to hear from you. (He would probably have some advice about pipers in your area if you would prefer them.) His email is mastersonpiping@gmail.com. We have several pipe and drum corps in Houston. The one at St Thomas' Church and School has won numerous top prizes at pipe competitions in Scotland, and Anthony has been with them.

    As for the carillon: there are precious few of them in the US. In Maryland you may not be too far from Washington where at the 'National Cathedral' (Episcopal, actually the Cathedral of Ss Peter and Paul) they have a very active carillon group, as well as a peal of bells. You might profit from getting in touch with them.

    Let us know how this all works out for you!
  • Here's a routine reminder: Avoid flames: critique principles, not people. Be discriminating but don't nitpick. Be academic not acerbic. Be principled not polemical.
  • OrganistRob320OrganistRob320
    Posts: 166
    Dear Crab,

    I understand your willingness to remain close to Maryland as I did the same in my college studies. Unfortunately I do not have any information on pipe bands for you.

    As to the college suggestions:
    I would be remiss if I did not at least mention my alma mater of Catholic U in DC. That being said, with the recent news of the disbanding of the Rome School of Music into the larger university arts division... The future for the Sacred Music program I and many others studied in could potentially be in jeopardy.

    Westminster Choir College has an outstanding reputation for "liturgical" musicianship, though the program has changed somewhat since the College was moved to the main Rider campus.

    Duquesne University in Pittsburgh does still offer an organ degree as well as Sacred Music and often would place students in area Parishes.

    Your singing, composition, and conducting questions are all items that would be covered extensively in your collegiate studies. For a basis on where to start, I would check with your area Directors of Music and your current teachers.

    A word of caution for the conducting however; I am unaware of any music school which would exempt a student from basic conducting coursework. If you enter already having a firm grasp of the basics of conducting, that class will be exceptionally boring and you may end up being tasked with being the "class accompanist" given your organ/piano skill. I speak from experience on this.

    - Rob
  • wspinnen
    Posts: 16
    1. It isn't close to Maryland, but given your interest in organ, composition, and carillon, I recommend my alma mater, Indiana University Bloomington. Their organ department is over 80 years old, highly distinguished and provides excellent training in repertoire performance and sacred music skills. If you chose to major in composition, their teachers have a wide range of specializations and interests (Renaissance counterpoint, aleatoric, computer music, anything you could ask for) and you would still have the chance to participate in the organ program. The Metz carillon is an incredible instrument as well; there's a carillon instructor there and regular opportunities to perform on it. As for a Catholic presence, they have a great Newman center run by the Dominicans. Sorry for the shameless plug, I'm biased! :)

    2. If you want to be close to Maryland, attend Peabody at Johns Hopkins. The Dominicans have a student parish there, and Baltimore, as I'm sure you know, has a long Catholic history. As Rob noted, CUA is having some problems; it may not be prudent to apply. There's also Westminster Choir College in New Jersey, which wouldn't be far.

    3. Duquesne's sacred music program is in jeopardy, as is their whole music school. I wouldn't recommend anybody apply. I'm not qualified to elaborate.

    4. As far as advice goes on your questions:
    - If you want to become more familiar with vocal repertoire, try to find a parish with a strong sacred music program, one that sings chant, polyphony, etc. That will help you get a basic familiarity with that repertoire.
    - Learning composition is something that simply takes time. In those lessons, you would eventually start to learn how to compose for instruments you don't play, and in a university setting, you would get constructive feedback not only from a teacher, but from collaborators. DON'T abandon the idea.
    - Conducting is something you will learn both by singing in choirs led by good conductors and in a college conducting class. Even when I got my MM at IU, a lot of the students in my conducting class were raw beginners: at the graduate level, mind you!

    4. My last thought is this: have you considered taking a year off between high school and college? Frankly, I wish I'd done that, but what's done is done. I suggest you take a gap-year so you can make some money/build some personal savings and focus on building your portfolio and performance skills.

    5. I wish I could help you with bagpipes.

    I hope this helps a little bit, despite my rambling. Bottom line: you don't have to be a complete master of your field when you enter an undergraduate program. Don't stress yourself out like that.
  • rvisser
    Posts: 61
    I am a Minnesota native, so I feel like I should mention that Macalester in St. Paul has a phenomenal bagpipe band. Macalaster is within walking distance (about a mile) of St. Thomas University, which, although a Catholic institution, appears to be thoroughly woke at the undergraduate level. The St. Paul Seminary at St. Thomas is very solid.
    There is plenty of good liturgical music in MN if you know where to look. You just might not find it at a university.
  • Reval
    Posts: 192
    I will just chime in here as the practical one. Are you or your parents paying for this out of pocket? After you are done with school are you going to be attempting to earn a living, or are you independently wealthy? You don't have to read very many threads on here to see that Catholic musicians don't get paid very well. Be very careful about getting in a lot of educational debt for a career in the Catholic church.
    Also, I would urge you to prioritize that list. I understand that the bagpiping is one of your hobbies, but I would rank it quite a bit lower in your list of priorities. I guess you still have a lot of time to figure it out however.
    Thanked by 3LauraKaz CHGiffen irishtenor
  • Magdalene
    Posts: 23
    I have friends who went to Franciscan University in Steubenville, OH. They have a sacred music program and they came out very proficient in organ, chant, composition, improvisation, and knowledge of Liturgy.
    Further away, but direct experience, I went to Benedictine College in Atchison, KS. I didn't major in music, but took organ lessons just to keep up what I learned in highschool. Only three semesters total, but it catapulted me far beyond where I was. The theology department is top notch and is what I credit to me being a music director now. I was able to transfer 40+ credits no problem, and their scholarships are great. There's also lots of opportunity to lead choirs, build a resume, and make some cash. It looks like they're still in the situation where the parish neighboring the campus does not have a music director. I directed a choir of professors' kids there and played the organ for Sunday Mass (volunteered) and then ran down the street to play at the Presbyterian Church (paid).
    I know I only touched half your criteria, so probably not very helpful unfortunately. Good luck!
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen irishtenor LauraKaz
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,713
    The FUS program…sigh. It’s been a mess for a while. I don’t even know what’s left of it. Only the voice professor remains on the program website.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Magdalene
    Posts: 23
    That's unfortunate about Franciscan. Sorry, I didn't know the current status.
  • Gaudium
    Posts: 48
    Please look at The Collegium in Hagerstown! And St. Mary's Parish in Hagerstown is lovely. They focus on the liturgy and sacred music, and recently hosted the CMAA summer colloquium there.

    https://www.the-collegium.org/
  • wspinnen
    Posts: 16
    I can confirm what @MatthewRoth said about FUS. I did my UG there, and the program has seriously deteriorated since I left.
  • Benton
    Posts: 14
    One of the only undergraduate programs for church music is the University of Kansas. Great organ, great professors, and a comprehensive curriculum that will give a great foundation for what you would like to do. Also, a good Catholic Center on campus.
    Thanked by 2LauraKaz CHGiffen
  • A_Crabby_Crab
    Posts: 3
    Hello everyone!

    Thank you all so much for the suggestions and thoughts! It has given me a lot more information to consider and I am very grateful.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,004
    One thing an organist told me before I went to college, learn something else in addition to music. Then you can always make a living if or when music doesn't pan out. It has been very good advice.
    Thanked by 4CHGiffen Jeffrey Quick Magdalene A_Crabby_Crab
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 487
    One thing an organist told me before I went to college, learn something else in addition to music. Then you can always make a living if or when music doesn't pan out. It has been very good advice.

    I would suggest a business administration diploma. It’s the most versatile. You can also learn the skills you need to become an entrepreneur and start your own sole proprietorship music business on the side to supplement your income. That being said, business administration is boring and so are the majority of the people who take it. Dry like toast.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 12,004
    Agreed on the boring part - LOL.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,131
    My major mistake was in not getting a MLIS degree. Librarianship was good to me, even as a paraprofessional. Yes, the profession is impossibly Woke, but what isn't in academia?

    Concerning news about Duquesne. Their library has one of the most amazing collections off sacred music in the country (along with Westminster/Rider, also threatened)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
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