Immaculate Conception Holy Day Status
  • StephenMatthew
    Posts: 112
    So, word has just come from our diocesan liturgy office that Rome has ordered that Immaculate Conception be observed in the United States as a Holy Day of Obligation on Monday December 9th this year. The prior understanding reflected in published ordos and liturgical calendars was that when Dec 8th fell on a Sunday the celebration of the solemnity moved but the obligation did not transfer with it. Allegedly Bishop Paprocki wrote to Rome requesting clarification. So, add another Holy Day of Obligation to your parish calendar this year.

    Anyone else hearing anything similar?

    The USCCB liturgical calendar still notes it as not being a day of obligation this year.
  • TimTheEnchanterTimTheEnchanter
    Posts: 205
    There are some rumblings (and a copy of the letter) on a music director Facebook group a few here are on.

    I sent a question to my diocesan liturgy office and am waiting to hear back. I feel like this is a USCCB-needs-to-issue-a-ruling situation.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    Keep your powder dry, and don't spread in advance of USCCB instruction. "I heard thusly" is not something that binds other Catholics canonically.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    It’s not a I heard thusly. The protocol letter from the former PCLT, which is binding, is public whether it should be or not, as often happens because as the OP says, relevant parties have been informed.

    What will happen in practice this year is another question.

    The USCCB has no authority to issue a ruling. Dispensations — which must take a particular form to be valid — can be granted, but not willy-nilly, and locally. (I suspect that a draft will be given by the USCCB to bishops, however.)

    It wasn’t even the prior understanding. The USCCB changed this in advance of 2013. Now Paprocki asked in his capacity as chairman of the Canonical Affairs committee, on behalf of the conference, and Rome clarified.

  • StephenMatthew
    Posts: 112
    Yeah, until we get a copy of the dubia and response (with protocol number) this is not quite official… but I think it is only a matter of when it is circulated.

    Probably trying to avoid yet another situation where a bishop finds out on the news… which already happened at least twice this year with other matters.
  • davido
    Posts: 942
    This is great! Now how can we get USCCB to fix Epiphany and Ascension?
    Thanked by 3trentonjconn G M. Jackson Osborn
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    The letter from Rome has appeared on the net. I saw this copy posted on Facebook.
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    Thanked by 4CHGiffen tomjaw Chrism ServiamScores
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 285
    How will this affect the traditional Latin Mass? According to the calendar of the 1962 Missal, when December 8th falls on a Sunday, the feast of the Immaculate Conception takes precedence over the Second Sunday of Advent (general rubric 15). Will we be obligated under pain of mortal sin to assist at the Mass of a third-class Advent feria, or is there a provision for the bishop(s) to order a votive Mass of the same mystery celebrated the previous day?
  • MarkB
    Posts: 1,080
    From a strictly canonical point of view with regard to satisfying the obligation to attend Mass on days of precept, for the two days Sunday & Monday, December 8 & 9, Roman Catholics must attend two valid Masses celebrated in a Catholic rite. The two Masses may be distributed in any of the following combinations to satisfy the dual obligation:

    1. Mass on Saturday evening. Mass on Monday.
    2. Mass on Sunday. Mass on Monday.
    3. Mass on Saturday evening. Mass on Sunday evening.
    3. Mass on Sunday. Mass on Sunday evening.

    It matters not what texts are used in the celebration of Mass on any day; only that one of those four possible combinations of Mass attendance be fulfilled.
    Thanked by 2irishtenor ServiamScores
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 621
    It matters not what texts are used in the celebration of Mass on any day; only that one of those four possible combinations of Mass attendance be fulfilled.


    But certainly, as Patrick has pointed out above, it is absurd that those who use the traditional calendar and have therefore fulfilled both their holy day and Sunday obligations simultaneously, should be required to attend Mass again on Monday.

    For my part, I'm very surprised to be reading that Monday will (may?) be obligatory. The ordo for the Ordinariate has it marked as moved, obligation dispensed. Since many American dioceses dispense for holy days adjacent to Sundays in the first place, it seems odd for Rome to suddenly be strict about this. Of course, I'll be playing and singing either way...
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    Because the US asked for a definitive interpretation.

    The ordo would have been based on the norms that were adopted in anticipation of 2013 and which Rome has now said are incorrect.

    The interesting thing is that in the missal of St Pius V, the feast was transferred but obviously that was before it was a dogma.

    The rubrics changed around 1911 (no transfer) then in 1956 (transfer), in 1960 (no transfer) and finally in 1969 (transfer). But many places have asked for and received an indult not to transfer the feast. Ultimately, I would be happiest with s reversion to pre-1955 and 1960 practice here. The feast is too popular to transfer, and Advent is just that much less important than Lent — where if the Annunciation is moved, then St Joseph definitely should be.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    The table of liturgical days, in the Roman Missal, determines whether the feast is transferred in the OF; and the Sundays of Advent rank very high (#2).

    Immaculate Conception is a solemnity of Our Lady so that's pretty high (#3), but still not high enough to bump a Sunday of Advent.

    Note, in the list, that Sundays of Ordinary Time are at #6, so during much of the year solemnities of Our Lord Jesus Christ or of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and local solemnities (patronal solemnities) can bump Sundays.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    ^modern obsession with green Sundays bemuses me particularly when the preacher copes really hard by a reference to the feast that is ignored liturgically and then pretends to know the mind particularly of the BVM who would have wanted it that way, despite the practice of both East and West until modern times, except, in the West, in Lent and sometimes in Advent for the 2nd Sunday. Sundays after Low Sunday can also be subordinated, notably to Apostles.

    The pre-55 offered nice relief this year. Sept 8, 15, and 29 (which still trumps Sunday in the 1962; downgrading the feast in 1970 resulted, in 1974, in its omission for the first time in over a millennium) are only on Sundays every five years or so such that it’s not the end of the world. The last time was in 2019. By the logic of the 1911 reform, this is a marked improvement on losing Sunday to every double feast…
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  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    For what it's worth, a source in my diocese has written:

    the US bishops just received the note from Bishop Paprocki, clarifying that Monday December 9 is a holy day of obligation, on October 10. Rita Thiron from the Federation of Diocesan Liturgical Commissions just sent it out yesterday. [Oct 14] It is a holy day of obligation, we just had that discussion internally at the Archdiocese [...] yesterday over e-mail, and a draft notice of the change is in the works. Neither the Ordo nor any other resources reflect the change because we just received notice of it.
    Thanked by 1DavidOLGC
  • Will_Tell
    Posts: 1
    Already some churches and dioceses are saying on their websites it will now be a Holy Day of Obligation

    Diocese of Davenport

    Basilica of SS Peter and Paul (Chattanooga TN)

  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 285
    After consulting two canon lawyers and the General House, the FSSP Provincial has recommended that US apostolates observe the second Sunday of Advent December 8 and Immaculate Conception December 9 unless given a contrary directive by the local ordinary.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    Wow. That’s going to go over poorly.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 285
    Wow. That’s going to go over poorly.
    Perhaps. The notification does mention that "there is a doubt of law regarding which Mass formulary should apply, in which case one cannot insist morally that the law obliges."
  • emac3183
    Posts: 55
    Update from the Archdiocese of Saint Paul/Minneapolis: the obligation is dispensed in this diocese.
    Decree+Dispensation+December+9+Immaculate+Conception+2024.pdf
    55K
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 434
    @trentonjconn
    For my part, I'm very surprised to be reading that Monday will (may?) be obligatory. The ordo for the Ordinariate has it marked as moved, obligation dispensed. Since many American dioceses dispense for holy days adjacent to Sundays in the first place, it seems odd for Rome to suddenly be strict about this. Of course, I'll be playing and singing either way...

    The "Monday/Saturday dispensation" in the US has never applied to the Immaculate Conception because it is the patronal feast of the Church in the US. FWIW, it doesn't apply to Christmas, either.
    Thanked by 2trentonjconn LauraKaz
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    FWIW, the list of dioceses where dispensations are being issued for this year is growing.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    Removing annually or only in certain cases the obligation cannot apply to Christmas and a Marian holy day chosen by the conference. The bishops could have chosen New Year’s as the HDO to keep every year as it’s a public holiday, but they chose Dec. 8 due to the patronage. Hawaii follows the Episcopal Conference of the Pacific’s rules: only Christmas and Jan. 1.
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 402
    How will this affect the traditional Latin Mass? According to the calendar of the 1962 Missal, when December 8th falls on a Sunday, the feast of the Immaculate Conception takes precedence over the Second Sunday of Advent (general rubric 15). Will we be obligated under pain of mortal sin to assist at the Mass of a third-class Advent feria, or is there a provision for the bishop(s) to order a votive Mass of the same mystery celebrated the previous day?


    A priest from the FSSP cleared this up for me years ago. The current liturgical calendar is legally in force to be followed according to Canon law. When a solemnity in the Traditional calendar falls on a Friday, but it is not a solemnity in the current calendar (Feast of St. Michael the Archangel), Traditionalists are still required to observe Friday penance. The same holds for holy days of obligation. They would celebrate the feast liturgically on the Sunday, but the obligation would still have to be observed on the Monday, but they would use the Mass of the day.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    ^that should be the answer. Ironically the problem with modern practice wherein the feast and therefore the obligation have to be moved, defying the wishes of anyone who actually cares, is that the pre-55 is not a solution since public Masses (but not private ones — certainly not private in the most strict sense) are of the feria, not of the octave.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,885
    Kalamazoo received a dispensation too, sadly. I at least appreciate that our Bishop clarified that the dispensation was only happening this one time, and next time the directive for transferring to the next day would be honored.
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 285
    They would celebrate the feast liturgically on the Sunday, but the obligation would still have to be observed on the Monday, but they would use the Mass of the day.
    Third-class feria of obligation—which would at least justify altar flowers and instrumental music ;)
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Third Class Féria of Obligation is my bluegrass band’s name.
    Thanked by 3FSSPmusic mattebery Joseph Michael
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 708
    In the Cleveland Diocese we are celebrating Immaculate Conception on Monday 9. My parish is having a 7pm evening Mass in the NO. I'm not sure what the TLM guys are doing.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    In the U.S., at least, celebrate the feast in Sunday, December 8 as required by the 1962 rubrics. Then, on Monday the 9th (which is a day of obligation now since the Immaculate Conception is transferred to that date in the Novus Ordo and the Vatican just said a few weeks ago the U.S. bishops can’t dispense that obligation), celebrate two II class votive Masses of the Immaculate Conception as an external solemnity, while the clergy pray the Office of the Advent feria. This is in compliance with nos. 358 and 359 of the 1960 Code of Rubrics as modified in 1962, which allows this in the U.S. since the Immaculate Conception is the patronal feast of the nation.


    cf. Twitter. The same is true of the pre-55 basically (except that it can't be before ordinarily); as an aside, I have never figured out what an external solemnity on the day itself would look like.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 285
    I have never figured out what an external solemnity on the day itself would look like.
    Might this apply to October 7 when it falls on a Sunday? The external solemnity of Our Lady of the Rosary is observed on the first Sunday of October, but a second-class Sunday takes precedence over a second-class feast of Our Lady, so it remains an external solemnity, the Office and additional Masses being of the Sunday.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    Ah but this was also the case before 1960 where the Sunday yielded, rightfully so, to the feast.

    An external solemnity can’t be celebrated on certain Sundays, and then in the case of the very day which is impeded, it normally would be a (double of the) I class feast that trumps most Sundays.

    Which to my mind rules out this being an exception for chapters. But I have got to run so I can’t pour over Stercky to see if it would ever apply to a feast that could not take precedence over a ’gesima.
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    This would be so much simpler if we could multitask and do two things at once by commemorating a Sunday on a Feast or visa versa.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Chant_Supremacist
    Posts: 32
    I'm a little confused. Does this apply only for the US? Does anyone have information on what a TLM in Canada should be doing? My priest is also unclear but currently intends to celebrate it on the 8th, giving precedence over Advent II.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 285
    Yes, only the US. Immaculate Conception is not a holy day of obligation in Canada.
    Thanked by 2Chant_Supremacist CHGiffen
  • CatholicZ09
    Posts: 284
    I wish the U.S. would revisit the Saturday/Monday rule, at least for January 1. I feel that the Octave Day of Christmas should be a HDO regardless on which day of the week it falls.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,311
    it's very stupid because it's a public holiday. For whatever reason, it was exempted in the Napoleonic concordat, so it's the only public holiday in France formerly on a day of precept which is not a modern day of precept.

    I also hate getting stuck with evening Masses as a result of musicians (pros, of course) not wanting to reduce their partying.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
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