I heard rumblings about this, too.

Being in support of Vatican II's mandate for liturgical reform does not make a bishop an "anti-traditionalist". Agreeing that the unreformed Mass should no longer be celebrated in the postconciliar Church does not make a bishop "anti-traditionalist". Prohibiting the Prayer to St. Michael from public recitation immediately after Mass does not make a bishop "anti-traditionalist".

The Leonine prayers, of which the Prayer to St. Michael is a component, are very recent. They were never a part of the Mass itself but were made obligatory by Pope Leo XIII in 1859 1884 & 1886 following the celebration of Mass. The obligation to say them after Mass was lifted by Pope Paul VI in 1964.

Any bishop is fully within his authority to prohibit the public recitation of the Prayer to St. Michael immediately after Masses in his diocese. The faithful may pray it as a private devotion as long as its recitation is disconnected from the celebration of Mass.

My diocese's bishop ordered the prayer to be said after all Masses starting a few years ago. I disagree with making that extraliturgical addition to the Mass obligatory.

Let the Mass be the Mass. Don't clutter it with other stuff.

I can’t agree that bishops are at all within their “rights” to ban people from saying approved prayers after Mass. That’s ridiculous.
I could see them banning adding announcements before the final blessing, because it is adding unnecessary and irreligious commentary to the Mass, itself.

Here's an idea: bribe the organist to play a recessional just long enough to clear the altar party, and then bribe Susan of the Parish Council to loudly assert her right to pray when-and where- and how- ever she wants, as part of empowering the laity and abolishing clericalism for all time.... and then just start the prayer, adequately distanced from Mass.

The bishops should go further and ban leaving church after Communion...

purple?

Does the priest stay put after he’s just said “Go, the Mass is ended?”
… Much better to have the Marian antiphon…

Well, even then, he is still saying it has ended, and then you’re staying for something. So, what’s the difference?
At my parish, at our TLM there is “ite missa est… Deo gratins,” followed by the Last Gospel, the St. Michael prayer, sung Marian Antiphon, and then a recessional hymn.
At our NO there is “go in peace… thanks be to God,” followed by the St. Michael prayer and then a recessional hymn.
Nobody seems to be confused or lost in awkward posturing.

Is everything based upon how a visitor will feel about being at Mass at your parish and its particular customs?

If so, there’s a pretty basic solution: the TLM, where the language remains the same, your personal hand missal is still correct, and the only pressing question is whether it will be sung or recited and if you’re comfortable singing, should it be a sung Mass.

Personally, I’ve never felt awkward about immediately kneeling after a dismissal in the NO, and trying to block out whatever is going on, at that point. Similarly, I’m fully comfortable kneeling at the sound of the Sanctus bells and upon finishing my “and with your spirit” response, regardless of what music or commotion might be going on.
When all else fails, pray the Mass, and when Mass is over you are free to pray along with whatever prayers tend to be prayed in that particular church or to leave, whether or not you feel like staying for the recessional - because, even then, the priest could exit to the sacristy, rather than the long version of recessing through the nave, vestibule, hallway, sacristy, etc…

hahaha... What has happened to the RCC?

poiple/ "let's just ban St. Michael... he clutters up the Mass." /end poiple

Wasn't this an explicit goal of the reform? Strange, if you ask me.

When I look back at the reform, it is hard to fathom just what they were thinking.

Ah, thanks for the correction, RMS. Yes, my mistake. Edited. Pius IX started the practice in Italy that year; later Leo XIII expanded it to the entire world.

My point of view is that publicly celebrated devotions immediately before or after Mass detract from the liturgy as the source and summit of the Christian life. Publicly appending them to the Mass, even informally, immediately before or after its celebration, is to communicate that the liturgy is not the source and summit of the Christian life: it implies that you need all these extra devotions appended to the Mass if you're to be a "real" or a "serious" Catholic.

For example, I do not like it when I arrive 15 minutes early for Mass to pray and I find that a public recitation of the rosary is occurring in the nave that lasts right up until just a few minutes before Mass begins. The rosary, in that case, is appended to the celebration of Mass. Why should that public recitation of the rosary be required of everyone to listen to 15,10,5,3 minutes before Mass begins? When people want to pray their own personal intentions or make their own preparation for Mass while in the nave, having the public recitation of the rosary hinders them from doing so because it is a distraction and an imposition. People are there for Mass, not for the rosary.

Which is not to say anything against the rosary itself. Just... time and place.

I also don't like it when the musicians are rehearsing in the nave within 30 minutes of the start of Mass. They should warm up or rehearse in a separate space.

Let the Mass be the Mass. If the liturgy is the source and summit of the Christian life, then it shouldn't be cluttered with other devotions; it should be given distinction by being something celebrated well itself, without additions. Crowding Mass with other prayers or devotions makes the Mass appear to be just one more devotional act among others instead of the source and summit of Christian life.

In some cases, such as in the celebration of vigils, evening prayer may immediately precede and lead into vigil Mass, but in those exceptional cases it's a merging of two of the Church's liturgies instead of appending a devotional act to the liturgy.

Not that I disagree with the un-cluttering of Mass MarkB, (I am firmly anti-clutter), but could that same argument and line of logic not be applied to the singing of processional and recessional hymns? They're not liturgically necessary, they're often devotional in nature, and the recessional most certainly is an unnecessary add-on. Yet, it never fails to irritate me when folks race out during the recessional instead of staying the extra 60 seconds to finish the hymn. I hazard to say that those folks would view the hymns as an unnecessary addition which they don't need to stick around for, but that doesn't seem right. To be clear, I say this as someone who likes hymns, especially a good strong recessional.

Oh, music can definitely clutter the Mass. There's no good reason for an entrance hymn or antiphon to last much longer than the procession/incensing of the altar.

There's no good reason for a recessional hymn to go on and on and on either. I've found if the parishioners know the recessional hymns will be rousing and short, most of them will stick around to sing it.

Music serves the Mass. If music serves itself or the musicians, then there's a big problem.

The entrance and exit of the clergy is distinct from the action of the Mass, but psychologically and ritually it is intimately connected. Older Missals prescribe prayers for the clergy before and after Mass, in many non-Roman forms there are prayers to be said, or stations at side altars during the procession.

My point of view is that publicly celebrated devotions immediately before or after Mass detract from the liturgy as the source and summit of the Christian life. Publicly appending them to the Mass, even informally, immediately before or after its celebration, is to communicate that the liturgy is not the source and summit of the Christian life: it implies that you need all these extra devotions appended to the Mass if you're to be a "real" or a "serious" Catholic.

I simply couldn’t disagree with this statement more. The St. Michael prayer doesn’t detract from the mass one single iota. Nor does the rosary. I don’t disagree that silence before mass for private prayer is a good thing (and that the rosary can therefore be frustrating if you’re not into it) but that’s a separate issue entirely. The fact remains: additional devotions that are the bread and butter of the Catholic prayer life do not detract from the mass at all. Especially when they occur before or after mass. If you interrupted the homily to pray a decade, sure. But communal devotions before or after? Heavenly day. You’re over reading things to put it mildly.

I also don't like it when the musicians are rehearsing in the nave within 30 minutes of the start of Mass. They should warm up or rehearse in a separate space.

Hopefully you’re the benefactor we need to add on to the church and build the choir room! I’ll rehearse elsewhere with my choir just as soon as I have an “elsewhere” to rehearse.

Hopefully you’re the benefactor we need to add on to the church and build the choir room! I’ll rehearse elsewhere with my choir just as soon as I have an “elsewhere” to rehearse.

Understand that. I had a choir room in the basement - or undercroft as the pastor called it. The average age of the choir was near late sixties early seventies. Bringing them up the 3 flights of stairs to the loft took way too much time. By the time they got there, they were too winded to sing. If we had to go over something quickly before mass, the loft was the only option.

I simply couldn’t disagree with this statement more. The St. Michael prayer doesn’t detract from the mass one single iota. Nor does the rosary.

Depends on how close to the mass they occur. If the priest and people are preparing for mass and your devotions end 5 minutes beforehand, that's too close to mass times. Everyone else isn't obligated to stop everything and humor your private devotions. The Rosary and St. Michael prayer are good devotions but in no way are they liturgy or even on the same level as liturgy.

Whether or not they are viewed as same level of liturgy might be questioned. We have genuine rosary fanatics here that push that devotion as the cure-all and end-all for any and all issues or problems besetting the world. "But Our Lady of Fatima said..." Keep in mind that with the billions and billions - not a Carl Sagan quote - of rosaries said, the world and the church are not substantially any better for it. More of the same with or without it.

You know what really grinds my gears and detracts from Mass and praying? People breathing. Seriously. Why do people have to breathe so loudly? It’s like nails on a chalkboard. It would be so much easier to pray throughout Mass if people didn’t impose their breath sounds on the rest of us.

I've often wished churches would list their Masses like this:
Sunday 8am (quiet people) 10am (youth band) 12:30 (conservative/chant) 3pm (charismatic) or something like that.
I've more than once accidentally shown up to a Sunday Youth Mass, complete with rock band. Once it was at 8am, which is usually a pretty safe bet for "only old ladies, generally quiet and brief". But nooooooooo...

If it's done by everyone all together, it's liturgy

That's an interesting formulation. Does it also apply to applause for the newlyweds?

Publicly appending them to the Mass, even informally, immediately before or after its celebration, is to communicate that the liturgy is not the source and summit of the Christian life

Really? Then according to Leo XIII, the Mass could NOT have been the source/summit back in the day.

Silly Pope.

If the priest and people are preparing for mass and your devotions end 5 minutes beforehand, that's too close to mass times.

That's your opinion and you're going to stick to it. If you need >5 minutes to mentally prepare for Mass, it's my opinion that you are taking time from my Rosary. And I'm sticking to it.

Any idiot can find the circuit-breaker for a noisy organ(ist.)

That hiss you are hearing is either a leak in a windchest or a music critic.

or a serpent on the run...

You are getting into the world of conjecture where little can be proven. As for "Catholic piety," it wouldn't be the first time it has become near idolatry.

It is actually considered a brass instrument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4jQTre1jYs

I think Francis might have been referring to the reptile kind, or busybody sopranos who hiss continually. LOL

It strikes me as rather inconsistent to oppose the association of praise & worship music with the Mass on the grounds that it is devotional in character and not suited for liturgy, but then scream from the rooftops when other items that are devotional in character (but viewed as more "traditionalist") are expunged from the Mass, whether it be the Last Gospel (which I actually favour, for what it is worth), Rosaries within or surrounding the liturgy, or additional prayers added ad libitum. The Mass is addressed to the Trinity, not Mary or St. Michael.