LOL. No, but I did have someone ask about a Coldplay song. . . they got away with a piano cover that their uncle played as a postlude.

Schubert's Ave Maria is a setting of a hymn to the Blessed Virgin Mary, which occurs within Scott's very long ballad Lady of the Lake. The situation and sentiments of the original have no bearing on marriage. Though the lady ends the poem being given the key to the hero's fetters, he is her father (I think).

Thank the Lord I don't do weddings. Hate them and can't stand all the accompanying drama. Not enough money in the world to do them.

I think that to a too great extent, the notion has been perpetrated that the wedding is the "bride's day" and anything goes that the spoiled little princess wants. Instead, it should be viewed as a liturgy of the Church with rules just as if it were a Sunday mass. The priests need to get on board with this, as well.

In my experience the odious bride-and-bride's-mother syndrome has been a relatively small percentage of the total of weddings I have played for. Having a parish customary (and a conscientious priest!) which sets standards for weddings is very helpful. Charles is definitely right, though, about the absurd emphasis on the bride, as if the groom, if mentioned at all, were an afterthought, a sort of unfortunately-necessary add-on. His chances of being demeaned and 'put in his place' at the reception are excellent. That this is feminism run amok should be apparent to all - it is not amusing, it is sick - it should be deeply frowned upon and not allowed.

I recently interviewed a couple for their May wedding at St Basil's Chapel, UST. They were most respectful and didn't question any of my offerings, nor did they have any 'requests'. Here is the music for their wedding -

Music Before Mass -
1. From Gloria of the Messe pour les couvents - - - F. Couperin
a. Plein jeu, b. Chromorne sur la taille, c. Basse de trompette

2. Organ chorale - Komm, heiliger Geist, Herre Gott (BuxWV 199) - - - D. Buxtehude

3. Praeludium, in G-Major (BWV 541) - - - J.S. Bach

4. Voluntary, No. 1, in D-Major - - - Wllm. Boyce

5. Toccata, in C-Major - - - C. Seixas

6. Meditation on Down Ampney - - - Improvisation

Music at Mass
At the Procession - The Prince of Denmark's March - - - J. Clarke

At the Offertory - Fantasia on Veni, Creator Spiritus - - - Improvisation

At the Communion - Meditation on Picardy - - - Improvisation

At the Dismissal - Psalm XVIII, 'The Heavens Declare the Glory of God' - - - B. Marcello
_______________________________________

I suppose this is 'off topic', it not being amusing. It is, though, pleasurable, and representative of a large majority of my weddings.

Have had to contend with the Cohen Hallelujah. This past weekend.

Actual emails:
Her: Dear [Gamba],

I hope you are well. We are working on finalizing the details of our mass and music selection. We will be having a "no mass", however if we decide to have a cantor, I'm wondering if that cantor is able to sing "hallelujah". I don't see it as an option, however it is one of our favorite songs. If not, no problem we will submit the form without cantor ASAP.

Thank you.

Me:
Dear [Bride],

I'm not certain which "Hallelujah" you mean – the song by Leonard Cohen/Jeff Buckley/whomever else has covered it? Or the acclamation before the Gospel usually sung at Mass? Or something else? Let me know.

If it's "I heard there was a secret chord...", then that cannot be sung in church. I too find it to be a beautiful composition, but the lyrics, telling the story of King David's misery and bondage after his adulterous pursuit of the woman he sees bathing on the roof, are simply not appropriate in a celebration of the Sacrament of matrimony.

Thank you, and have a good weekend.

Bride:
Good point. Let me clarify... what about on the organ without the words?

Me:
Again, I have to decline. I can't play a melody everyone knows goes with inappropriate words; the same problem of discord between music and the message of the ceremony would exist. Additionally, a song written for guitar and voice does not convert well to an organ solo.

Could you play it at your reception?

Bride:
Of course...understood. I guess I never realized how provocative the lyrics were until now. We will choose from what is listed.

Thank you for your help.

Commentary:
1) Next time, google the words first.
2) Next time, read the **** guidelines I send.
3) You want a special hallelujah, whaddya think I suggested “Alleluia: Mittat vobis” for, before the gospel?

I completely agree with Chris G-Z!
I think any couple who choose to marry in the church should be respected and guided to make good choices. My niece said that music was not even discussed during the pre-Cana instruction weekend and they did not receive the usual booklet with readings etc. for planning the Sacrament of Matrimony.

I googled the Cohen "Alleluia" lyrics. It does begin with David and Bathsheba, but I see the whole song as being about God's redemption. I see Cohen as saying we are all sinners and sometimes Alleluia can be a prayer of supplication and sometimes it can be a triumphant shout of affirmation of God's greatness. I don't think it is appropriate for church, but it is an interesting song. A priest I knew as a teenager, would sometimes use popular song lyrics as a "hook" for CCD Masses. This song could be used by the right priest in the right circumstances, in my opinion. It does also show in a blatant way how composition tricks can evoke emotion, don't you think? That's why people respond to it.

Has anyone else been battling the liturgical or para-liturgical use of Cohen's "Alleluia"?

We had a deacon who would do a lyrical re-write of the song and get up to the pulpit with his 12 string electric-acoustic guitar and lead the congregation in a singalong of it (and other songs he wrote) during his homily.

Has anyone else been battling the liturgical or para-liturgical use of Cohen's "Alleluia"?

Never heard of it until now.

Please refresh my memory, Chris- which historical era was burgeoning with "properly catechized Catholics?

There was never such an era. This will likely upset the trads but if Catholics had been properly catechized even the liturgical changes that originated from Trent would never have happened. But then, we have a tendency in the east to run revisionist prelates out of town on a rail during the night. The west calls them enlightened and falls at their feet.

East of the western Roman empire in the 6 of the 7 churches that remained true to their liturgies and traditions.

BTW, a great read if you are interested in what brought the Roman Empire down.

"The Fate of Rome" by Kyle Harper. In it, he notes how the fate of Rome was decided not just by emperors and barbarians, but by volcanic eruptions, solar cycles, climate instability and plagues. "He describes how the Romans were resilient in the face of enormous environmental stress, until the besieged empire could no longer withstand the combined challenges of a "little ice age" and recurrent outbreaks of bubonic plague."

Big book, long read time. I am half-way through and am fascinated. It deals with the secular and doesn't touch on religion.

Despite having a very sophisticated elite, fine literature, splendid architecture, admirable schools of rhetoric and learning, and more, the entertainment of most Romans of all classes was the circus, in which meticulously trained fighters slaughtered one another in as gory a fashion as possible, man and beast tore each other apart, and much blood and gore were on display in mock battles. Everyone from the sophisticated elite and the emperor on down had his and her favourite gladiators and favoured form of butchery. The Romans must not have been very nice people. Further, one can only wonder what our own populace would do for entertainment if their thirst for violence and gore were not satisfied by television and cinema.

Among properly catechized Catholics

All 9 of them worldwide?

And a vestige of the Roman circus and its cruelties lives on in the Spanish bull ring. It also lives on in the cock fights and baited dog fights that I've heard about being a commonplace in back-woods America. It is the same savage mentality.

cock fights and baited dog fights

Not restricted to backwoods, my friend. Michael Vick, NFL quarterback, spent time in prison for dog-fighting. Lots of cock-fighting in urban hispanic areas.

Well, the Leonard Cohen "alleluia" has now reached the nearest parish, where it is used for the Gospel acclamation. I am really just out of OF options at this point, despite having over 8 churches and chapels within walking distance of my house. Thankful to have the EF on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation, even though it is far! But I would so love to have a parish I could just walk to for evening Mass on a Wednesday evening, or drop in for Confession and Adoration, and not have anything heretical or offensive happen. It is not to be. I'll keep up my devotions at home during the week.

East of the western Roman empire in the 6 of the 7 churches that remained true to their liturgies and traditions.

Hey now, that Archbishop of Constantinople -- what's his name, again? -- John Chrysostom, I think. He made some pretty radical changes to the Liturgy, too!

I never quite understand why it is important to understand the pre-liturgical history of a particular piece of music in order to decide whether it is suitable for the liturgy. Honestly, every other tune in the hymnal is from folk or secular sources...some of the greatest masses of Palestina, Victoria et al infinitum are based of secular motets that had erotic texts. Do we really need to have an exhaustive historical research into every tune that we use?

Agree totally, ghmus7.

If you have to explain to someone why the Coen Hallelujah is inappropriate - then obviously THEY don't associate it with a secular song. I'm willing to bet that 95% of the population genuinely believe that it is a song praising God, because all they can remember is "Hallelujah, I heard there was a secret chord that David played and it pleased the Lord". So this isn't actually a piece that I'd bother using my limited fight-for-appropriate-liturgical-music energy on. At least not while I'm in a parish where most people see singing the Ordinary as optional anyways.

Is there a general ranking of "hills to die on"? It's true there are worse things than Cohen's Hallelujah at Mass. Priests who sit down and let extraordinary ministers distribute Communion, mind-numbingly-loud rock music, mind-numbingly-loud readings, out of tune guitars and flutes, liturgical dances of any kind, and sermons or advice in Confession undermining Catholic dogma...these come to mind.

Gamba, I'm far more terrified by scenario #3 than by #1 or #2. #3 has permanent repercussions.