Nocturnale Romanum is available
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,921
    Occasionally forum users ask if the Nocturnale Romanum book (2001) by Holger Peter Sandhofe is still available for purchase, so I sent a note to the publisher Christof Schroeder. He has closed his publishing firm and on-line store, but still has a few dozen copies of the book left for private sale. Interested readers wishing to buy a copy can contact him at the e-mail address cns at hartker.com . (And feel free to write in English.)
    Thanked by 3veromary CHGiffen benstox
  • benstoxbenstox
    Posts: 23
    I didn't receive a reply from this man when I emailed a few weeks ago, so maybe I missed the boat on this one. There isn't any other known way of obtaining a copy, by any chance?
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,341
    Now online...

    https://gregobase.selapa.net/source.php?id=23&images=1
    Thanked by 6smvanroode madorganist CHGiffen benstox Chrism eft94530
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 283
    (Does anyone know if and how legal issues were addressed?)
    Thanked by 1JonathanKK
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,341
    I would message Olivier Berten ...

    I wonder who holds the copyright, the publisher?
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 283
    First of all, the author's heirs.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,601
    ©2002 Hartker Verlag Christof Nikolaus Schröder

  • Julio_GarridoJulio_Garrido
    Posts: 17
    Anyone knows if this book can still be purchased in printed form? Thanks in advance!
  • Daniel Bennett PageDaniel Bennett Page
    Posts: 825
    http://www.solesmes.com/node/16766?position=2&list=WZQRZQ31jLgUc9yggPrzQkMl_lKN8TjyDKTMAxSSv_A
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,921
    That's a different and new book, for anyone who hasn't seen that listing before.
  • Julio_GarridoJulio_Garrido
    Posts: 17
    So, does anyone know if this book can be still be purchased in printed form? (or someone who has it a would like to sell it) Thanks in advance!
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,341
    I have checked abebooks, Amazon and google, and they have no results. So at the moment it is unavailable.
  • benstoxbenstox
    Posts: 23
    In 2014 I did manage to purchase a copy directly from Christof Schroeder eventually. At the time he had only intermittent internet access, the remaining copies were in storage, and he did not have ready access to them, so it took several weeks to arrange but I did get it in the end. If you haven't tried him, it may be worth it: info at hartker dot com was the email I used for him at that time.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw Julio_Garrido
  • Julio_GarridoJulio_Garrido
    Posts: 17
    Thank you for this information. I will certainly try!
  • Dixit_Dominus_44
    Posts: 159
    I really wonder how many people currently have on their shelves the primary books for the Ordinary Form Divine Office … to sing.
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 283
    @Dixit_Dominus_44 What do you mean by "the primary books for the Ordinary Form Divine Office"?
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,341
    @igneus Well primary books for the EF Office is the Antiphonale Romanum, of course the Nocturnale was never published, but the L.U. has Matins for feasts. So everything you need can be found in 2 books at most.

    The Liber is still in print so many people have a primary book for singing the EF Office for most days of the year... Remind me how many books we need to sing the OF office.
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 283
    @tomjaw For Sunday and festal Vespers a single one: the "Antiphonale Romanum II", Solesmes 2009.

    For anything else Liber hymnarius (Solesmes 1983) + Ordo cantus officii + Hesbert's Corpus antiphonalium officii (and some understanding of it's contents) + access to a bunch of medieval manuscripts (and some understanding of their various notation systems).
    And you still have to compose set the responsoria brevia to music yourself.

    Or you take Les heures gregoriennes - which are, AFAIK, not up to date with the current Ordo cantus officii, and don't contain the Office of Readings.

    Or you decide to chant the OF Divine Office in the vernacular and you are instantly happy: there are a few languages with a complete vernacular antiphonale. Besides the English one there is one in German; a Portuguese one in two volumes (haven't seen it in person); and there is also a very poor one in Czech, by yours truly.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 283
    * I forgot to mention multiple 20th century chant editions, also required for the "Ordo cantus officii" way.
  • Rivegauche610Rivegauche610
    Posts: 22
    Is there a means whereby one might be able to download the entire Nocturnale?
  • OraLabora
    Posts: 218
    Or you take Les heures gregoriennes - which are, AFAIK, not up to date with the current Ordo cantus officii, and don't contain the Office of Readings.


    I did an analysis recently and LHG pretty much follows the current Ordo Cantus Officii (2015) for Sundays and weekdays. The Gospel canticle antiphons for Sundays are simplified, only one is provided. The new AR I and II fix that. Where it gets sticky is feasts and solemnities, but again AR I and II fix that. So basically I use LHG supplemented by AR I and II. For the Office of Readings, I created my own Nocturnale from the first edition of the OCO. I had to improvise in a couple of places. I don’t use it much now, I prefer the monastic Vigils practice of recto-Tono if I’m going to chant before 6 am ;)

    Ora
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,341
    The 'Vatican' edition is here, hand notated, https://www.dropbox.com/s/f6v7ms0356l1oax/Nocturnale_Tilburg.pdf?dl=0

    The other option is Gregobase, https://gregobase.selapa.net/source.php?id=23&images=1
    but you will need to download each set of pages and then join them up again.

    These two Nocturnale will differ not only because they have been published in different years but also Peter Holger Sandhof who produced the more recent one did not appear to have access to the 'Vatican' edition. Of course in the Roman rite, it was not normal to sing Matins (apart from major feasts and these are found in the L.U.) and so it was often recited / recto tono from the Breviary.
  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 536
    NB: "Vatican", but not a typical edition, so not authoritative in the way that the GR 1908 / AR 1912 are. I guess most of the time people talk about the "Vatican edition", it would be better to say "Vatican typical edition".
    Thanked by 2tomjaw CHGiffen
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,341
    That is why I wrote 'Vatican' Has anyone found out if there was a typical edition.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 536
    De Musica Sacra (1958) says:

    56. Libri cantus liturgici Ecclesiae Romanae hucusque typice editi sunt:

    Graduale Romanum, cum Ordinario Missae.
    Antiphonale Romanum pro Horis diurnis.
    Officium Defunctorum, Maioris hebdomadae et Nativitatis D. N. Iesu Christi.

    So I think that is about it. But the Holy Week seems to include the Octave of Easter as well, see the edition from 1949 published by H. Dessain, Mechlin, available on CCWatershed HERE.

    Hopefully someday the typical editions of these last three will become available online at some point...
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
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