Pray for St. John Cantius, Chicago
  • Gamba
    Posts: 119
    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2018/03/19/pastor-removed-st-john-cantius-parish/

    The pastor of a Catholic church in the Goose Island neighborhood has been removed from his duties, as the Archdiocese investigates allegations of “improper conduct involving adult men.”

    Rev. C. Frank Phillips, pastor of St. John Cantius Parish, will not be allowed to perform sacramental or other priestly duties, and will not live at the parish during the investigation.


    Whatever he has or has not done, let us pray that those his parish has brought to the Church and her music will not be scandalized, and that the work of the Canons can continue.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,431
    And let's pray for the conversion of heart of +Cupich, while we're at it?

    That's the nicest thing I can say right now.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,300
    I wouldn't be so harsh on Card. Cupich. Removal of a priest having a homosexual encounter seems to be fairly common in the USA since 2003, even though there is no specific canon addressing the offense. Some bishops go even further -- removing the priest from all future ministry.

    I will pray for all concerned.
  • G
    Posts: 1,383
    "Some bishops go even further..."
  • I am of two minds on matters such as these.

    I believe that any priest or prelate found guilty of crimes such as these should be summarily defrocked and turned over to the civil authorities. I can hardly think of a punishment that would be too harsh for ruining the lives and minds of youths or adults - not to mention their superiors who protect them. These acts are criminal and any who perpetrate them are criminals.

    However,
    it seems strange, exceeding strange to me that we, living in a land in which one is presumed innocent until proved guilty, should punish or disgrace someone before his or her 'day in court'.
  • madorganist
    Posts: 482
    MJO, Fr. Phillips was not accused of anything illegal. They have been very vague about what exactly the accusations were but made it clear that they involved adults who were not part of the religious community. It sounds like they were not parishioners either, but that too is unclear. According to his superior:
    It seems fair and just to restore the canonical faculties of Fr. Phillips...no civil or ecclesiastical crime had been established...the ideal would be his restoration as their superior general.
    https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2018/07/20/canons-of-st-john-cantius-founder-fr-c-frank-phillips-relocating-to-st-louis/
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • dad29
    Posts: 1,655
    "Homosexual encounter"? Who said anything about that, RonK? Not the Archdiocese....

    Based on further reports--none of which are confirmed--it seems that Fr. P. may have used terminology which was offensive to someone or some two people.

    MJO, there is no "crime" here at all. There are no children, nor teenagers (the favorite target of homosexual predators.)

    Cdl. Cupich was looking for an excuse to get rid of Fr. P., and he found one.
  • madorganist
    Posts: 482
    it seems that Fr. P. may have used terminology which was offensive to someone or some two people.
    Wow. "Improper conduct involving adult men" doesn't mean what it used to, especially when it's a priest in question! Infuriating.
    Thanked by 1G
  • Cdl. Cupich was looking for an excuse to get rid of Fr. P., and he found one


    Do you mean that the course of action was already decided, but the proximate excuse hadn't been yet found to accomplish it?

    Does Cardinal Cupich strike you as the sort of man who would look for a fig leaf in a situation such as this?
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 993
    Do you mean that the course of action was already decided, but the proximate excuse hadn't been yet found to accomplish it?


    Of course. This is beyond common in the Church, unfortunately. Trumping up minor infractions or even outright fabricating infractions gives TPTB cover for doing what they want to do anyway. It's downright shameful that this happens in the Church, but it happens every day...
    Thanked by 2dad29 G
  • Liam
    Posts: 3,612
    "living in a land in which one is presumed innocent until proved guilty"

    Then again, the "land" here is not America but the Church.
  • dad29
    Posts: 1,655
    Does Cardinal Cupich strike you as the sort of man who would look for a fig leaf in a situation such as this?


    He strikes me as the kind of guy to stay far far far away from. In a way, Fr. P. got the better of the deal compared to the Order he founded.
  • G
    Posts: 1,383
    Wow. "Improper conduct involving adult men" doesn't mean what it used to

    Precisely why it's such a useful phrase. Once it's used the inference many will make is that the conduct was homosexual, (although the archdiocesan spokeswoman's mention of sensitivity training, or some such, indicates it just as likely that the "offense" was using language to which homosexuals objected.)
    The effect of slander without the effort of slandering...
    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
    Thanked by 2madorganist dad29
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,431
    He strikes me as the kind of guy to stay far far far away from.


    A common collect I've found myself praying for bishops (save a select few) secunda Fiddler on the Roof: "God bless and keep the bishop/archbishop/cardinal - far away from us."
    Thanked by 2CharlesW MarkS
  • madorganist
    Posts: 482
    Defamation by insinuation or implication is apparently somewhat difficult to prove legally, but that's clearly what's taken place when even conservative commentators such as Fr. Z. assume an "improper relationship (emphasis mine) with an adult male." In my opinion, Cupich is directly and solely responsible for grave damage to Fr. Phillips's reputation on account of a public written statement. Is it rash judgment to presume that he is in mortal sin until he publicly clarifies that the allegations did not involve a violation of the sixth commandment or the vow of chastity?
  • dad29
    Posts: 1,655
    It's a lot "rash-er" to write down your surmisal than to have it and keep it to yourself.

    If you haven't been screwed by a cleric, it's coming. (I do not mean physically, of course.) They do it; it's a matter of "when," not "if."
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,714
    Before I worked for the church, I have often said I had a much higher opinion of it. The same things happen in the east but the lack of centralization tends to limit it to specific areas.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,065
    1 My child, if you aspire to serve the Lord, prepare yourself for an ordeal.
    2 Be sincere of heart, be steadfast, and do not be alarmed when disaster comes.
    3 Cling to him and do not leave him, so that you may be honoured at the end of your days.
    4 Whatever happens to you, accept it, and in the uncertainties of your humble state, be patient,
    5 since gold is tested in the fire, and the chosen in the furnace of humiliation.
    6 Trust him and he will uphold you, follow a straight path and hope in him.
    7 You who fear the Lord, wait for his mercy; do not turn aside, for fear you fall.
    8 You who fear the Lord, trust him, and you will not be robbed of your reward.
    9 You who fear the Lord, hope for those good gifts of his, everlasting joy and mercy.
    Sirach 2:1-9
  • Gamba
    Posts: 119
    It is perhaps telling that the Canons were not interviewed and were left out of the investigation. Rumors have flown for years concerning Fr. Phillips’ conduct among the canons; not being a Canon myself, I cannot prove or disprove them, but I have heard them from multiple people on several occasions.

    I would like to point out what could, in one way, be a situation that permits hope.

    1) +Cupich did not dissolve the Canons Regular of SJC, nor did he expel them from the church.
    2) Nor did he mandate changes in the liturgical life of the church, or attempt to suppress the EF.
    3) Nor, it seems, did he appoint a hostile pastor who would do #2.
    4) Since the Canons were not publicly caught up in the investigation, they are free to continue their ministry in the parish as previously, without any defamation or assasination of their character.

    To me, therefore:

    – if Fr. Phillips did indeed conduct himself in an immoral and unfitting way, the parish may now be able to reach greater heights, without the spiritual kryptonite of a leader fallen into grave sin.

    – if Fr. Phillips did not act wrongly, the parish may suffer unjustly, but can survive, as it ultimately would have to do, should he retire or become incapacitated.

    If +Cupich really wants to close or “modernize” SJC, he could have found far more efficient and effective ways to do so, without removing the pastor.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 1,370
    So Fr. Philips has been disciplined for outlining the Church's teaching on homosexual acts? and +Culpich is not happy.

    So here is a question, was +Culpich promoted by Ted McCarrick or one of his friends?
  • dad29
    Posts: 1,655
    If +Cupich really wants to close or “modernize” SJC, he could have found far more efficient and effective ways to do so, without removing the pastor.


    Not really.

    First off, the pastor in this case was an excellent fund-raiser. It remains to be seen whether any of the other Order members can step up and fill that hole.

    Secondly, Cupich is not stupid. He would NOT simply shut down that church--which would be very efficient, indeed. That would cause a conflagration which could backfire on him. (I need not expand on that comment.) Similarly, he would not send in a new pastor who would rip apart that parish's structure, or the music program, or the EF/OF-Latin Masses. Same reason.

    What Cupich did was fire a warning shot--not only at SJC, but at any other priests who might have ideas like those of Fr. P.

    By the way, this is NOT to say that Fr. P. may have (or not have) used intemperate language in describing certain classes of sin. But whether true or not is now irrelevant.

    Thanked by 1irishtenor