3. ST. CLEMENT
2. DOWN AMPNEY
1. LAND OF REST

Three more I like.

@JulieColl I believe the tune name is ST DENIO, but maybe it is just one of those stupid publisher mistakes (misteaks)...

Yes, it is St Denio.

And, yes, Sicilian Mariners is amongst the most vacuous and boring tunes ever foisted off on us. I've thought this from the time I first heard it at something less than ten years old.

Have all you in the northern hemisphere been spared Elgar's DRAKES BROUGHTON? Down here it is a beloved of more old-fashioned congregations, paired with John Henry Newman's "Firmly I believe and truly". The tune is banal, and congregations insist on singing it at a dirge-like pace, scooping up on every rising note. And while I do dearly love much of Newman's poetry, this one has got to be one of his worst. One might as well sing the creed.

'Firmly I Believe and Truly' is sung smartly up here on the western side of the pond to Nashota House, a grand and artful tune which seems 'tailor made' for it. As for Drake's Broughton, I hope that you keep it down there. We don't want it. You are spot on: it's dreadful!

Well, Adam, (with all due respect, plus some extra) what you are 'wondering' is just another version of 'eek! I don't know that, therefore it is elitist, and we don't need any of that uppity stuff around here', and on and on. You know how it goes. I think that what you are wondering is inherently (subconsciously, of course) the sort of thing that balkers and deliberate ignoramuses of all stripes oh-so-predictably toss (c)rudely into the ring the moment they are presented with a steak (not even a Chateaubriand - just an ordinary steak) because they are proud to wallow in hot dogs* or spam (and resent that anyone else would want a steak - just a plain old one, not even filet Mignon). These are the people who would never have permitted us to have the Sistine Chapel ceiling or Palestrina's musical icons. This is what I think (consciously, of course).

Please do not regard this as a diatribe against you. I think that you are doing this 'wondering' in innocence. But the domination of those who (mindlessly) crucify what they don't like as elitist is what would (consciously, of course) rob all the rest of us of our patrimony (and!, feel glad to have done so).

*Oh, and by the way, I, too, like hot dogs, though not as much as hamburgers. It is, though, becoming increasingly difficult to find a good, delicious, old-fashioned version of either. The thing now is to gussy them up with blue cheese, portobello mushrooms, unique house dressing, bacon, various artisan buns, plus anything they can muster that drips and oozes, caramalised** peppers, this week's fad veggie or green, and who knows what else. And they call it a 'hamburger'

**Most anything nowadays that doesn't have caramalised something or other in it is just hopelessly outre.

(Too, stop wondering if certain hymns and/or tunes are disliked because they are 'popular'. A less than stellar tune or text is what it is, no matter it's popularity or lack thereof. Some tunes are dreadful [Kings of Orient] and are popular- and unliked by your 'some people'. Their popularity doesn't make them, voila!, admirable. Also, some tunes are admirable [Hyfrydol, Es ist ein ros' entsprungen] and, yet, are popular - and liked by your 'some people'. There are some inherent contradictions in your reasoning, which is, I think badly flavoured with an a priori bias [unconscious, of course] which doesn't float. There is no passable formal argument here.)

There are objective characteristics that contribute to tunes being boring:
- repetition of phrases
- low rate of harmonic change
- melodies within a small ambit

Firmly I Believe and Truly has 5 stanzas of 8787 meter. So when it is paired with an 8787D tune like SUO GAN, one of the stanzas will have to be dropped. That's my first problem with the pairing.

My second problem is that SUO GAN works more like a 44434443D tune than an 8787D one. When paired with Firmly I Believe and Truly there are simply too many melodic breaks in the middle of words or after "and" or a preposition. So, for my taste, it would not be a good pairing, even if the text had six 8787 stanzas.

1 Firmly I be- / lieve and truly
God is Three and / God is One;
and I next ac- / knowledge duly
manhood taken / by the Son.

2 And I trust and / hope most fully
in that manhood / crucified;
and each thought and / deed unruly
do to death, as / he has died.

3 Simply to his / grace and wholly
light and life and / strength belong,
and I love su- / premely, solely,
him the holy, / him the strong.
--
4 And I hold in / veneration,
for the love of / him alone,
Holy Church as / his creation,
and her teachings / as his own.

5 Adoration / ay be given,
with and through the'an- / gelic host,
to the God of / earth and heaven,
Father, Son, and / Holy Ghost.

I can't take credit for the excellent idea of pairing Suo Gan with Firmly I Believe, although I have definitely advocated for the idea. The idea was generated during a discussion here on the board, and I firmly and truly believe that eft fellow proposed it.

There's a simplicity to the tune, much of which comes directly through the caesurae in the even numbered lines. (I don't hear nearly such a dramatic pause in lines one and three of each stanza). Right from the beginning you get 2 facts: God is three and. God is one (re-mi-do). So simple, so true.

Fr. Krisman, is it possible you are omitting the verse that begins And I take with joy whatever? If included, no verse need be omitted under the Suo Gan scheme.

http://cyberhymnal.org/htm/f/i/firmlyib.htm

https://books.google.com/books?id=0WzmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PR4&lpg=PR4&dq="and+I+take+with+joy+whatever"&source=bl&ots=-G8-nSC9Qe&sig=qAqV4bfoH0kfwm1MD8__Yduur3c&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQj7aB-uPNAhWJ5CYKHSBrD3AQ6AEIIjAD#v=onepage&q="and I take with joy whatever"&f=false

Speculation!

We could speculate freely about what human characteristics correlate with an affinity to those musical characteristics. Maybe it's not musical training, but something broader. personality (temperament), or general cognitive ability, or shoe size, or language ability.

- melodies within a small ambit

As a side note:
Every time I glance at the screen and see this sentence, I think it says "small armpit."

I just sang through something to ABBOT'S LEIGH for the first time yesterday evening.
I wasn't a fan.

It changes the mood so much if you sing ABBOT'S LEIGH in D major.

AUSTRIA vs. ABBOT'S is more like hamburgers and hotdogs than steak, if you ask me.

Why everyone no like me favourite tune?

Ya but i like NICEA too... lol

I find RUSTINGTON to be an excellent substitute for HYFRDOL (or AUSTRIA, for that matter), and one that doesn't get enough play this side if the pond.

Is there a NICAEA II?

What about CALON LAN for Firmly I Believe?

Blaenwern is a new favourite of mine. Bravo!
Let us be careful to not wear these tunes out.
Like eating too much of a good thing, over use really spoils the appetite for more of the same

Another excellent and marvellous tune which gets very little attention is Bryn Calfaria..

(Doing purple is such a chore.)

Purple is a state of mind.

Scripsit Jackson:

I think that it is really nice that Chonak likes Nicaea, and that, also nice, he doesn't like the not-so-nice (and non-existent [what perspicacity!]) Nicea. Nicely done all 'round!

That's very nice o' ya!

That Pluth text set to BLAENWERN is also in Seasonal Missalette (issue expiring 7/30/16) at #211.

Jon, is that from The Secular Hymnal? (I sure hope so.)

Now I'm going to have to figure out a way to praise corn on the cob besides just standard yummy sounds. Any ideas?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3-59688i8s

I'm really warming to Blaenwern. Thank you for reminding me of it