Discussion of CMAA at NPM 2015
  • ChoirpartsChoirparts
    Posts: 147
    Thanked by 1Heath
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    While I am glad to see CMAA represented at this event, I have much to say about the first video, but I won't because it would be verging on the uncharitable.

    BUT, if CMAA is only inviting Cecilia Nam, Horst Buchholz, and Wilko Brouwers, not to mention John Robinson and Charles Cole, so as to fill a "quota" of non-Americans on the faculty, I will leave the organization, since I do not want to be part of a group of people so shallow as to view the ethnicity/nationality of its members to be just another statistic. I have never before been prouder to say that I do not belong to the AGO or NPM.

    And don't get me started on the "white guilt" they're trying to place on the big, bad, 'Eurocentric' CMAA and AGO.

    But I'm not saying anything...
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,473
    Did cmaa have booth a the convention?
    I had offered to help with one this site many times but never got a reply. cmaa seems to be run by the same six people who don't seem to want anyone else to contribute.
    just my 02.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,176
    A booth at NPM costs $900, according to a contract on their web site, plus a charge for any furniture.

    I suppose it could break even if we were to gain 25 or 30 members out of the 1800 attendees.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I don't discern much to be gained by speculating on ethnicity, nationality and culture as regards CMAA membership or leadership as self-perceived or viewed by competitors and adversaries. Cecilia Nam sings Roman Catholic sacred music, Kevin Allen composes Roman Catholic music, Pedro d'Aquino transcribes Gregorian Chant for use in today's Church and her rites, Wilco and Horst teach children and adults about authentic Roman Catholic liturgical culture, Peter Kwasniewski does all of those things in service to Roman Catholic sacred liturgy and music. That is the CMAA ethos. If NPM must engage in providing equal access to my friends Zaragoza, Manalo, Whitaker, Cortez and the rest of the cultural spectrum, as we used to say in the 60's, that's their bag. It is simply because of our RC/CMAA ethos that we don't have to feature quotas.
    I am compelled to remind my friend ghmus7 that CMAA and its board has never, to me, given any indication of being a closed star chamber or oligarchy. Yes, like all organizations there occasionally occur some internecine disagreements, most of them in CMAA (to my knowledge) are resolved successfully and positively, others require some passage of time. The fact that the board and other very influential members tolerate my preposterous self as a member attests to that. I'd even go so far as to say if I wasn't financially strapped, which prevented a 3rd Duquesne for me and Wendy, I'd happily spend my money and time, including $900 booth fee, to represent CMAA at NPM. And I don't think that the board would begrudge that offer due to my eccentricities. CMAA operates on a shoe string with primarily volunteers such as Janet, Richard, Mary Jane, Jenny, et al, and I wouldn't be surprised if that were so for the senior leadership as well.
    I haven't watched the first video, so if Horst was dissed there, I'm sure he handled it with Teutonic grace and eloquence. He was not at all marginalized from the English chant discussion. And I'm pretty sure J. Michael Thompson was ecstatic that Horst joined him with Fr. Ruff at the dais.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,176
    The first video wasn't that interesting. Because it included organizations with a largely non-Catholic membership (AGO and the Hymn Society), the discussion was mostly about practical matters: holding conferences, attracting participants. Incidentally, the two panels seemed to be events only for net viewers, not part of the NPM conference program.

    Fr. Ruff also hosted a discussion by publisher reps at the conference, in which there was general agreement that no, no, the publishers which put so much money into that conference definitely do not have disproportionate influence there. :-)
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • ChoirpartsChoirparts
    Posts: 147
    Fr. Ruff discussion with publishers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5Hw3Aq_LKY
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,951

    Discussion with NPM?
    Canon XXXIII of Laodicia
    "One must not join in prayer with heretics or schismatics."
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Fr. Ruff says some interesting things.

    - CMAA membership trends younger.
    - CMAA is experiencing growth.
    - Chant is "dull music" that only people like him like.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW G
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,037
    Two of those are indisputable and are good. The other is debatable, and I think he is wrong. See the other two points. Besides, we are the oldest sacred music organization...because NPM doesn’t promote it!!!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,176
    Yes, choirparts, that's the right video.

    Above, ghmus7 wrote:
    Did cmaa have booth a the convention?
    I had offered to help with one this site many times but never got a reply. cmaa seems to be run by the same six people who don't seem to want anyone else to contribute.


    Of course we need initiatives: did you actually propose something and contact CMAA about it? (If you only posted a forum comment, that doesn't count: that's not addressed to anyone.)

    Looking at NPM's web site, and their conference schedule, I made a few estimates. If we wanted two people on site during the exhibition hours, we'd need 48 man-hours of volunteer time, plus prep time before the event. Could we get two lead volunteers and four assistants from the local area or from attendees? If the volunteers are non-attendees, we'd need to buy some admission passes ($195 ea.); there is also the booth fee ($900) and costs for rented furniture, maybe some video equipment (to show a video about the colloquium), and some printing and shipping, and the budget could run somewhere in the vicinity of $2000. Of course that is based on some arbitrary assumptions.

    Reasonable people might say that the cost is out of proportion to the potential benefit. So I hope ghmus7 will not think me unreasonable when I say that his criticism comes off as rash.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,188
    Attendance was down significantly this year from reports of some friends who did go. I know that it has been going down for the last three national conventions.

    I would not spend the money to be represented there. There are too many other things to do.
    From the bourbon lands....
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Chant is "dull music" that only people like him like.


    Chant sung lifelessly is dull music.

    Chant sung by people who know what they are doing is INVIGORATING.

    Young people everywhere agree.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,696
    Attendance was down significantly this year from reports of some friends who did go. I know that it has been going down for the last three national conventions.


    Well.. to be fair... it was in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,302
    Still, it's fairly expensive and what do you get for your money? As far as I can tell, not much. Churches that used to foot the bill for this sort of thing don't have the money anymore, and it's not worth the investment to many people, myself included.
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    And Colloquium was in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Matthew...so your point is...?

    Thanked by 2CharlesW melofluent
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,951
    I have seen local churches cut back on funding those trips to conventions and seminars. Many churches have not recovered fully from the economic downturn - can we say the "R" word, recession?
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,188
    And my church paid for me to go to the colloquium. Even to Pittsburgh.....
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,176
    And Colloquium was in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Matthew...so your point is...?


    Oh, he's probably thinking of Pittsburgh specialties such as the famous relic collection in St. Anthony Chapel on Troy Hill. We visited it, and then I frightened poor matthewj by zooming down the steep hill in my little car.
    Thanked by 1BruceL
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,037
    Pittsburgh is almost 2x as big as Grand Rapids, and it has a good reputation. There are good restaurants, sports (the Pirates were in town over the weekend of the Colloquium...), and places to go. GR might be a nice place to live...but to visit? It isn’t high on my list of places for a convention.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Digression timeout-
    I get Colloquium 26 in St. Louis. Great city. Horst and Cecilia are there. We'll try.
    OTOH, should I be still viably employed, think about somethings: Where are-
    MaryAnn Carr Wilson, Jeffrey Ostrowski, Jeffrey Morse, Frank La Rocca, Christ ZG, Sam Dorlaque, Christ Tietze, Jeff Culbreath, Adam Wood, Paul Ford, Hildegard, Rudy de Voz, William Mahrt, Matt Meloche and likely a whole lot of folks I can't recall at this moment located?
    West....


    Phoenix.
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 774
    Hey, St. Louis is darn west of me, CC.

    AND, I reckon, it's all the same to the lady from Ireland, the guy from France, and the guy from Australia, all of whom made it to Pittsburgh.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Honestly, I think you'll never win. At least in my case, I find it unlikely I'll be able to go to anything much further west than St Louis. To each his own I guess.

    The idea of bouncing around is the best, I think. Perhaps a return to SLC or west coast somewhere after StL?
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,037
    No, you won’t...

    SLC or somewhere in CA would be fine, but why not Omaha some year?
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,164
    Or Minneapolis/St. Paul?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    You need to come to SAN FRANCISCO.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,696
    Oakland is far more likely due to cost - and it gets my vote.
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood eft94530
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  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    Dallas.
  • Can I vote NYC area? David Hughes, Jonathan Ryan, and I are nearby...
  • ZG? Usually when people abbreviate the name (which, honestly, I prefer they wouldn't, but I expect to lose that battle, since I've been losing it for nearly 25 years) they get the letters the other way around.

    Garton-Zavesky


    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    How about Brooklyn/Queens? Lots of big, beautiful churches, great food and great coffee.

  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    The Oakland Cathedral would be a gorgeous venue.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Sorry, Chris, serious carpal tunnel in left hand, been in therapy for two months. Should've proof read. But I did give you the Left Coast Shout Out, count for something?
    Ah Richard, ever the brutal truth teller, you're right as usual. But I've spent decades and tens of thousands of my money (not the parishes') traveling Eastwards, so it was just a "hey, did ya think about.....Oakland?" Just think, we could listen to Rudy at Christ our Light, catch the #51 bus up to College Avenue to the Newman Center at UCB, aka "The Bunker of the Last Breath of Vatican II." We could have a Frank LaRocca fest at St. Margaret Mary's on Park Blvd., then adjourn to Yoshi's in Jack London Square (I'll try to book Kurt Elling.) We could charter a boat to Alcatraz and then have a self-imposed lockdown chanting "We shall never le-e-e-eave!" One of our marriage banns young couples could get married in the City Hall dome knowing we'd flash mob chant appropriate Latin Propers. Then we'd go to Star of the Sea and have it sacramentally blessed in the EF! You know I could go on....
    Thanked by 1Jenny
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 774
    Yeah, yeah... I've spent many an hour listening to Cal-I-fornians chunter on and on about the glories of their state (never mentioning the whole tax/drought thing). I should think you could do better than Oakland, though (I kinda like Truckee). Anyway, as far as Colloquium goes, best to take solace from the Monkeys: Ya better get ready... we may be comin' to your town. 2020?
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Phoenix


    Our Basilica is very nice.

    There's another place that will have an additional draw for such activities, but the place and the thing are unknown by me so I have nothing to say on that. But it's kind of a big deal.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,700
    This would be another great option in Richmond Va's, museum district:

    http://database.organsociety.org/photos/VA/Richmond.StBenedictRo.2013PasiOrganB.0909.163716.jpg
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Here I am leading either your Simple or Choral Communio's every dagnabit weekend, and you're giving me Jerry Brown and the drought. Oakland ain't got no drought, thanks to the Demo houses and Moonbeam.
    Truckee, yeah, try doin' Truckee when you gotta do chains on I 80!
    As far as the Monkees (check your spelling RR), Clarksville is a district in Oakland between Piedmont Avenue and Rockridge. Do a Morse, take the train. Love ya, RR.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,176
    It's OK. We'll bring our own water.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,164
    Melo can supply the wine.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,992
    Or have the miracle of turning wine into water.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Melo can supply the wine.

    It would be an honor, Chuck, especially if you could come.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,037
    And I’ll be 21 by a Colloquium whose location is yet to be determined... Yay!
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    If it's in California, I'm carding you Matthew!
    Thanked by 1MatthewRoth
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,696
    You can card me any day, Mr. C...

    Oh you weren't talking about me...?
    Thanked by 1MatthewRoth
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    Definitely the Bay Area.
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Let me return the favor, San Diego's a stunningly beautiful locale as well.
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 774
    "As far as the Monkees (check your spelling RR), "

    I can manage Beatles, at least.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Ooh, ooh....are you working on your magnus opus, Missa dei Fab Quattro?
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Thanks E-G, I put that on my playlist next to the Monks of Silo de Benzedrine.