What complicates this are the really, really extensive Anglican recordings and music for the Vespers. The pattern it follows is so logical (and I suppose easier to understand because of it being 100% English and yet foreign being British that it seems 'special') and the Vespers has become a real vehicle for composers.

Hi, Ralph, nice to run into you here as well!

I suppose that I am trying to reconcile and understand the pre and post V2 versions...and how it might best be done today.

For the post Vatican II version: check out the Mundelein Psalter, Chicago: Hillenbrand Books, 2007. It uses the exact texts from the Liturgy of the Hours set to simple chant tones. It only offers Lauds, Vespers and Compline, but does so for all days of the year, with propers of seasons, saints, and commons. I have seen it work pretty well and it seems like all the work has been done for you. It sells for about $50

My personal preference is to use the Latin because it is so much easier to chant.

For the Ordinary Form version in Latin, it seems like one must buy so many books. An easier Office to pray in common according to the new form is Compline. The entire Sunday Office for Compline is in the Liber Cantualis and it is an inexpensive book - probably $12 or cheaper. The Liber Hymnarius is about $60 and it contains all the hymns, Invitatories, and the Te Deum; plus some responsories for the Office of Readings. One can add solemnity to the recited vernacular Office by spicing it up with the Latin hymns. The Office of Readings benefits most from this book: Invitatory, hymn, responsories and Te Deum can all be chanted in Latin. The rest can be recited in English.

The Liber Usualis is so easy to use for the traditional version, especially for Sundays per annum. It is all there for you. All you have to do is find the proper Sunday for the Magnificat antiphon and the Collect. For the propers of Seasons, you have to turn the pages back and forth for the psalms, but it is still pretty easy to use.

Again, I would recommend starting with Compline in common to learn the style of the traditional Office. It is easy, especially with the booklet: Ad Completorium from the Fraternity Publications Service. It is $4.50 and has everything in Latin and English side by side for every day of the year. Once getting this down, it is easier to take on Vespers.

Frogman (and others),

I recently discovered the Liturgy of the Hours and studied it extensively before I could figure it out. It took me weeks, months.

Currently, (when I pray it), I follow the "Christian Prayer" or 4-volume "Liturgy of the Hours" from Catholic Book Publishing Co., which uses US-approved texts. Sometimes I use the digital version from Universalis (but they use the texts approved for the UK and other countries).

I can write more extensively later; let me know if this is the kind of "mini-culture" or tutorial you are referring to.

Oh, and as an aside, keep our parish in your prayers. We will start a LotH teen prayer group on November 7. We will start reciting, working out way to chanted tones (8G exclusive for now).

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"How I learned Vespers", using "Christian Prayer" or "Shorter Christian Prayer".

Preparation: This was meant for monks to pray during the day. Check out the Norbertine schedule. I found it easier to learn weekdays, then move to Sundays and other days.

1. Watched and prayed the Pope's Vespers service during his recent visit. I hope you can still see the video at: http://mfile.akamai.com/18596/asf/atlanticvid.download.akamai.com/18594/wm.atlanticvideo/cc_pope/evening_prayer.asx

Is there any better example than our Holy Father?

2. Watched it a second time, this time using the pdf file of the Vespers service. (Later I can find the link and post it.)

3. Compared the pdf from his visit and the "Christian Prayer" book. (This is tricky, and I can explain how in an update.)

4. Used Resources. Read the "General Instruction of the LotH" (p. 8). Also read the "Ordinary: Evening Prayer" (p. 694-698). Again and again. These pages are the most important.

Also looked for web pages. (This took a lot of research.)

5. Practiced.

6. Learned Psalm Tone 8G. (This took a lot of research.)

7. Tried to learn Magnificat 8G (I couldn't find many recordings. I have ABSOLUTELY NO BACKGROUND in singing, reading music of any kind. Eventually I got the basics.)

Figuring out Sundays and other feasts, celebrations for saints, etc. is the second big step.
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That, in a nutshell, was how I learned to pray Vespers and the LotH this summer. I feel as if I'm the only layperson in a 30 mile radius who prays this. It is truly sad that we've almost lost this prayer.

Now, I try to pray Morning/Evening/Night, and occasionally get to the Office of Readings.

=)

DE- St Francis of Assisi, Henderson NV. I noted your other post, but as we're doing neither Solemn (yet) nor 1st Vespers (yet!) I'm hoping for others to chime in over there.

One notable exception to the general rule of using the day’s liturgy is that, when All Souls is on a Sunday, the LotH celebrates the SUNDAY IN ORDINARY TIME, not the office of the dead.

That may be it....not sure.

priorstf,

There is 1st Vespers of the 4th Sunday of Advent in my edition of the LotH, both in the Proper of Seasons and in the antiphons in the psalter for 1st Vespers of Sunday IV.

You are correct in that the Magnificat antiphons are specific to the calendar day, but 1st Vespers of the 4th Sunday of Advent takes precedence over ferial Vespers of the Saturday before. (Actually, the psalter doesn’t even contain Saturday vespers.)

This is ALL very helpful, don't stop!

We did an Evening Prayer over the summer at our choir school. Our pastor is big on involving the Deacons, and we are too, so they assisted very nicely.

When we shortly move into out new church every wednesday evening there will be Mass at 6:00, followed by Sung Vespers at 6:45, followed by Choir Rehearsal....

Yes, the rubrics for Vespers can be complicated. They are all in the Fortescue-O'Connell Ceremonies of the Roman Rite, though. The cantors do stand and genuflect a lot at solemn Vespers. Here are my notes from the text with some modifications for our situation. Mostly I'm leaving out the pre-intoning since that would essentially be the blind leading the blind. Our organist will give the priest his pitches.

Hey, why can't I upload pdf files from Firefox? I had to switch to Explorer.

I get an error saying that the file application/download does not match .pdf

Noel: http://www.anglicanbreviary.net/instructions.html This is for the Anglican Breviary, which is the old breviary but in English. So the procedure is 100% the same, just a different language when you recite it. And anyone who can tell me where to get a cheap copy of this book would have my gratitude!

Ralph,

Bear in mind that the 2nd typical edition of the Liturgy of the Hours, which has yet to be translated officially to English, does indeed match the psalm/canticle antiphons to the Lectionary cycle.

A couple of reasons one might want to do Latin Vespers in the modern form:

1. the vespers hymns from the Liber Hymnarius are superior to the ones in the Liber Usualis, both for the text (more ancient, not the Urban VIII neoclassical revisions) and the music (closer to the more ancient sources & just seems to flow better. Lucis creator is a case in point, at "optime": do-re-ti-la-sol in LU, do-re-do-ti-la-sol in LH)

2. if everything else in the parish is ordinary form, the Magnificat antiphons really should match up with the morning's gospel.

With the complexity of trying to arrange a modern Latin vespers and the paucity of resources, though, I understand completely the attraction of the traditional Vespers.

May I just thank you all?
When I first tried to understand the LotH and do it with decent music, I was made to feel like an imbecile by various people online and IRL, because I didn't "get" it, got lost in the books and had trouble trying to coordinate the requirements/suggestions/hymns/fabricated psalm prayers/etc...
Glad to know not everyone comprehends it instantaneously

"One notable exception to the general rule of using the day’s liturgy is that, when All Souls is on a Sunday, the LotH celebrates the SUNDAY IN ORDINARY TIME, not the office of the dead."

But I believe the General Instruction says that if the liturgy is done with the faithful, i.e., those not required to say it, the Office of the Dead is to be or may be used. (Can't remember wording)

(Save the Liturgy, Save the World)

Concerning the LU hymns and their revised texts: the 1912 Antiphonale has the original texts in an appendix, for those that use them «de iure vel ex consuetudine aut indulto». There are differences to the Liber Hymnarius, but this would be better than the tampered LU versions.

priorstf,

The antiphons are from the 1975 (?) English translation of the Liturgy of the Hours, 1st typical edition. They correspond to the Latin texts in the 1st typical edition.

The psalm-prayers are, like the alternate opening collects in the current ICEL Sacramentary, original to ICEL.

I am not sure which Christian Prayer book you have; Catholic Book Publishing’s edition has complete Lauds and Vespers. Pauline’s also has Compline and Terce/Sext/None....everything but the Office of Readings, basically.

Either book, though, is the official text of the Divine Office as found in the full 4-volume set.

Note, too, that none of these offices is called by their traditional names in the current English translations. Personally, I hope this changes when/if they get around to retranslating the LotH (i.e. for the updated Latin LotH edition) since “Evening Prayer” sounds no different than “prayer in the evening”, whereas “Vespers” indicates a specific liturgical office. Presumably the traditional names were jettisoned to give the impression of a simpler learning curve.

gabrielp:

«However, for the Ordinary Time antiphons, they don't seem to match what I have in my copy of LoTH.» They do not. The Ordo Cantus Officii (OCO) does not prescribe the same antiphons as the Liturgia Horarum (LH). This has nothing to do with the English translation. The example you give of psalm 109, for which OCO prescribes antiphon «Dixit Dominus» in all four Sundays, while LH prescribes different anthiphons, is a striking one.

«the Ordo recommends that the Revelation Alleluia canticle be done as a responsory, without an antiphon» Exactly. A third antiphon for Second Vespers of Sundays is given only during Lent, when (for obvious reasons) that canticle is replaced with another one by S. Peter.

«But I am given an antiphon in my translation, does anyone know where to find the music for the antiphon?» If you really want to follow the LH, rather than the OCO, you have these LH antiphons for Advent, Christmas Season and Ordinary Time here:
http://www.nocturnale.de/Nocturnale/Liturgia_Horarum.html
I repeat: the antiphons in that site's files follow the LH, not the OCO. Some of them are neo-gregorian. (They were prepared by Holger Peter Sandhofe, who passed away in 2005 when he was 33; take a moment to pray for his soul. He never finished the files with antiphons for Lent and Easter Season.)

«how does one chant this canticle? It doesn't really seem to fit a psalm tone.» It fits an ancient tone sung in Ascension Thursday with psalm 46. You can find that here:
http://www.scholasaintmaur.net/Telechargement/
You have to register to download (it's free). Choose «Partitions» and then «Cantique de l'apocalypse - alleluia ton solennel» (Revelation canticle - Alleluia, solemn tone).

If you mean www.scholasaintmaur.net, you have to fill in some fields in their site, apply for registration, and wait for an e-mail with a link to activate your account. After activation, then you will be able to download files and to register to receive by e-mail the Divine Office (bilingual Latin + French; the second column being only useful if your French is better than your Latin... and they send the several hours per UCT+1: a little bit early in the USA).

dvalerio,

I did register, and I did receive the email. It keeps telling me my access is denied, “Veuillez contacter un administrateur” and all.

Hi dvalerio,

Thank you very much for your helpful input. I managed to download the Alleluia canticle, it's great! And I did check it in the Apel as you suggested, and you're right!

Now, the reason I am asking all this is that I'm considering taking on a project to arrange/type-set the gregorian antiphons in order in a book form (so you don't have to flip through several books to find each antiphon), and,if possible, adapting them to the English. I intend to do this for a school thesis-like assignment (I'm in final year of music college, and we're allowed a free-interest final project for credits), but which I will definitely make available - should it go through.

I believe, based on what I've seen discussed, this ought to be exceptionally helpful for young scholas who want to chant the Office. Am I believing correct? How useful do you all think such a project will be? How practical? I really want to do something that can be of practical benefit.

Thanks for your input and comments!

God bless,
Gabriel

Does anyone have actual sample of Vespers in honor of the BVM? Our beginning schola wants to do it, so we can pray together as a schola. And it's still confusing for me. I need some sample to start with. Looking at LU is more confusing. I heard the Vespers for BVM can be done any time of the year. I would like to see it either with Latin in modren form or EF.(EF might be too hard though, I assume) But Latin with translation would be a great help. (or at least resourses.) I'd truly appreciate it.

You can try "Universal Music for Evening Prayer"
It's published by CanticaNova, and quite a good resource.
There is one for morning prayer as well.

I agree with Michael O'Connor on ease of "assembly." I use an abbreviated form of the traditional Vespers (fewer psalms with the antiphons in Latin and the psalms in English) and using the intercessions for the BVM from the contemporary LOH. You can also email me for one of my programs. If you stick to Marian vespers, it's really quite painless, with much of the chant and text remaining the same or closely related.