So there you have it. the docs from 1903 and the latest GIRM that Fr. Jim Chepponis posted.

as well as that of light or loud instruments

No light instruments?

So I guess the Lazer Harp is out?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-TF7bgm2jg

and even worse, ignored.

EXACTLY! WHYYYY??? *cries*

Ecclesiastical norms can and do change. Canon 20 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law states:

A later law abrogates a former law or derogates from it if it expressly states so, if it is directly contrary to it, or if it entirely re-orders the subject matter of the former law; but a universal law in no way derogates from a particular or special law unless the law itself expressly provides otherwise.

An ordinary formula by which a later law expressly abrogates a former law or derogates from it is often found at the end of legislative documents: All things to the contrary notwithstanding.

Another way for an earlier law to be abrogated: some later law is directly contrary to it. So if an earlier law states that it is forbidden to use a piano at Mass, and a later law states that it is permissible to use a piano at Mass, the later law is what is in force.

Finally the third way that later law abrogates or derogates from earlier law: the later law entirely re-orders the subject matter of the former law. Such happened - and was not called into question at the time - when the law in Pope St. Pius X's motu proprio was completely reordered and restated in Pius XII's Musicae sacrae disciplina (25 december 1955). (See Pius' reference to an orderly presentation of music norms and responses to new questions in paragraph 1, and the reference to presenting those norms in a new light and strengthened by new proofs in paragraph 3.)

And, of course, music legislation has again been entirely reordered by Sacrosanctum Concilium and subsequent legislative documents.

Like many documents from earlier times, it is not being ignored. It has been superseded by later documents from competent ecclesiastical authorities. GIRM is our current set of regulations by the USCCB, the competent authority on the liturgy. Rome controlled liturgy much more closely at that earlier time. Now that authority has been delegated to the conferences of bishops.

...and Fr. Krisman's very informative post.

THIS is the AHA! moment I was looking for. Okay. So my mind is a bit less boggled.

Go forth, wail, gnash teeth, and rend garments while in sackcloth and ashes. LOL.

Believe you me, I shall.

the outright assertion that the piano IS NOT AND NEVER CAN BE an appropriately Sacred instrument is ridiculous.

I'm not sure it's entirely ridiculous. Extreme, definitely. But, I think that discussion is probably better left to the thread already examining the value of both instruments. Perhaps my feelings stem from the fact that I am in a very acoustically live church that can seat 800-900 people with a small Yamaha grand. (I very much dislike the sound of Yamaha pianos.) In my experience, the congregation immediately shifts their focus toward singing and toward the Mass with the organ, whereas the piano typically elicits a much more casual atmosphere far less centered on the liturgy. Maybe it's my playing. Who knows?

I am hardly new to church music, but I am still very new to sacred music and being responsible for reading and understanding legislation so THANK YOU for your responses. This is very helpful.

What you need is a sultry cantor in a cocktail dress sprawling on top of that piano. That would bring some life to the psalms and give new meaning to "All Are Welcome." LOL. I am with you on the Yamaha pianos. Never did like them.

The problem is that while the organ is sacred by default, the piano requires a deliberately sacred way of playing in order to function well in liturgy.

I sense an article brewing.

If your budget allows, hire a piano tech to voice the hammers on your piano. Yamahas are inherently bright and percussive. I, by default, hate them. When jazz was my main focus I spoke negatively about them often ... even in that percussive musical context they are annoyingly bright and tingy.

Anyway, see if you can get it voiced. When I interned as a piano tech a few years back I was given a project of -somewhat- rebuilding a 6' 3" Yamaha grand. With new hammers (probably not in your budget) and careful voicing, it actually sounded like a decent piano. "Smokin'!", as one of my piano professors reviewed it.

Different sounds in different scenarios though. Never liked Chick Corea simply for the fact that he plays them, and so his "sound" is unnatractive. Then again, Brad Mehldau gets a nice sound out of them. A lot of it is the player, a lot is also the instrument.

See about getting yours voiced. When working on those pianos and a/b'ing two Yamahas, one mellowed down and the other in its "natural" state, it was (jazz reference, heyo!) Night & Day.

Also - simplify.

Seems legit.

And besides that, if you ARE going to destroy a piano, you should probably light in on fire and launch into the night on a catapult.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F92FQdnLlSc

I will admit: what passes as "praise and worship" music in the Catholic Church is pretty cheapie compared to the Protestant ones.

A good Protestant work is "Refiner's Fire". (I was actually starting to think this might sound well on the organ....and maybe even sung SATB :) ) I used to go to Baylor University, and that song was even used at our campus ministry Masses (replete with guitar and piano, of course).

A typical, "good" Catholic work would be something like "Go Make a Difference". I don't hear very much musical content in there at all. All I hear there is a lot of screaming....."Go make a difference, you can make a difference......"

Let's not compete with the Protestants. They can do it much better than we can. Let's get back to what we do the best. I find it ironic that the Latin Church, once known for producing the best music in the West, is now notorious for making the worst in the world. The irony is that these old musics are being showcased in concert halls everywhere, at a school of music near you, while be driven out of the very place where it was once prominent. So when people want to hear the best, they go to a concert, but when they go to divine worship, they hear the worst which the Church's composers can manufacture.

That is the argument I would make to my pastor, if I was in your shoes. We Catholics do a pretty shoddy job of the affair. Sure, one might argue if there is no reason why we can't use Protestant music. But what I am going to suggest that if Catholics cannot do a good job of manufacturing our own works, then said genre may very well not be appropriate for the liturgy. As for canonical arguments, I am not a canon lawyer, so I cannot argue well (or at all) based on ecclesiastical documents. I will respectfully submit that I think my argument above is sufficient.

I'd sooner play a 3 rank positive organ than a keyboard or piano but sometimes you've just got to work with what you've got.

Now to figure out how to make a 16 rank organ from the 1870s make a decent rendition of "Shout to the Lord" ...

I have never heard "Shout to the Lord"

It's every Christo-pop song you've ever heard since 1993.

A few years back, we had to remove all the Great division pipes for ceiling repair and painting. The loft was full of scaffolding and we had to move down front, which we all hated. We made it ok using a Roland piano and continued on with liturgies. Was it ideal? No, but it worked. I played just enough to support the singers. Not being a very good pianist to begin with, I couldn't do the fancy stuff, which worked out well. We were all glad when the organ was back in operation.

Or, in other words, "you gotta love the one you're with"?

Well, there is love, then there is convenience. Not quite the same. ;-)

At funerals here, we allow anything - within reason. So we end up singing things that we don't sing on the weekends, such as "Be Not Afraid," "On Eagles' Wings," etc.

Sometimes a Communion song requested will be such as that it only really works on the piano, so I go downstairs. But that puts me down there for the Agnes Dei (chant) as well. So I accompany the Agnus Dei on the piano. I play very sparsely, just hitting the chords, and for an intro I state the theme an octave up. It is very effective and sometimes I think actually sounds better accompanied on the piano.

bkenney27: ... the Church's teaching and documents on Sacred Music.

See the Forum Discussion
Liturgical Music Document Literacy Challenge

The posts to this Discussion reminded me of my
extensive hand-typed material at ...
http://musicasacra.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1504#Item_18

I dont believe there is any instrument on which Bach cannot be performed

Yes, but is it on an instrument anyone would want to listen to? I can imagine a kazoo ensemble making hash out of "The Liturgical Year." There are some other instruments that you theoretically could play baroque music on, but the result might not be so great. In my own experience, well-designed and built organs play several types of literature well. Others are such niche instruments they are limited in what they can do.

I was thinking of "Sheep Ducks May Safely Graze Sit."

Geese May Safely Honk
Frogs May Safely Croak

The horror......the horror....

The kazoo comment is funny, because I had to rewrite some pieces and for fun I put the instrumentation for kazoo, hurdy gurdy, conch shell and jaw harp and then I waited to see if my singers noticed when I handed the pieces out to them (It should be noted that I didn't actually use those instruments)

But on to the matter of playing the piano. We use the piano and when I do use the piano I never play exactly what is on the page or play it in the style as an organ. If I did it wouldn't sound quite right and wouldn't have the effect I was looking for. I always change it to a more a pianistic style. And if you do it right it can sound amazing. It has its drawbacks though. When our organ died on us I had to play the piano for everything and now I always get asked to play more piano because they like my interpretation so much.

Sheep May Safely Ignore Catholic Music

Once again, this is a question that would never have to be asked in an Eastern Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Church where they refuse to accept or find any appeal in protestant trends to influence their liturgy.

The true problem with the Latin rite Catholic Church since the time of the reformation is that particular laity and clergy in it are constantly willing to entertain the use or find attractive certain protestant novelties.

There's always been abuses and heresies, but imagine if protestantism had never occurred??? wouldn't that be amazing, to not have that influence! Even though it typically persecutes christians at least a bit, Islam and other religions are not as annoying, in that they are too different to seriously influence Christianity.

It's quite sad.

Although, of course, the exception is to acknowledge that the Lutherans and Anglicans do retain some positive liturgical influence to the extent that they , especially these days, preserve certain catholic elements.

If most Catholics could associate Praise and worship music as being wrong because it is a recent protestant novelty than this thread would not be here. I await that day to arrive.