As I asked one elderly gentleman who complained the organ was too loud, "Did I ruin your nap?" LOL. I found with some of my older folks, it has something to do with certain pitches and their hearing aids. It creates some kind of distortion. Not wearing one, I am accepting that from someone as truth. Mixtures seem the worst. Not knowing your building acoustics, it is hard to say. But yes, I think much of the loudness issue is perception. With some people, the organ becomes the target for all the other things they are unhappy with in the parish.

One elderly man comes up to tell me that when I play so loudly, the old folks lose heart and stop singing.

Ask him to turn off his hearing aids. ;)

I am reminded of an anecdote about an old local jazz legend I studied with. He told me, "If you're ever on a gig and some [expletive] from the audience approaches you to criticize your playing, ask them to sit in with the band and show you how it ought to be done."

Not sure that's the most pastoral solution, nor would I ever let a whiner program a weekend's music (the horror!), but its an interesting thought. How would those people react if invited to plan the music for next weekend's mass, coordinate the musicians, run a rehearsal, and then perform or conduct at said mass? Oh, and a quick blurb in the bulletin explaining their selections and the relevance to Catholic liturgy, the liturgy of the temple Pope Francis refers to in the video in the thread here called "The Vertical."

Just one mass. Not too hard. And they clearly know more than any of us about church music, so it should take 10 minutes or less to justify their choices in writing.

Simple enough, right?

"You don't like how I'm doing it? Ok, here, you try!"


Again, not seriously recommended. Strongly discouraged. But just think, if pastoral sensitivity, the dignity of human persons, and the salvation of souls were not at stake, just how funny the reactions would be!

Since you will get complaints no matter what you do, might as well pull out all the stops.

Good news....they are not complaining about what music your playing.
But if the choir starts complaining......

Thanks for the humor, folks! A nice laugh to counter one of our particular job hazards.

I think some say it's too loud because to them, any organ that makes any noise is too loud for their anti-organ beliefs.

Ah! Grumpy Cat! Tardar Sauce.
You know Grumpy Cat is female, right?
She has a brother called Pokey.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8E4roEG8vA

I love Kathy's marvelous iconostasis image about the worship band.
Oh, how true that statement is!

As I said in my last post on another subject, it is better to be influenced by the Eastern Catholic or Orthodox Church in liturgical practices than a "low" protestant church ("high" anglican/lutherans not included.)

There is a simple thing to do to see if your organ is too loud.
You don't need a cantor with a kazoo , you need another person to play it while you stand toward the nave far away from it. They don't have to play it well, a few simple notes of any melody should be enough. Listen and see how it sounds, than you'll have an answer.


If I never had to hear an organ again - I'd be a happier person.
What I mean by this is that I'd rather never hear an organ again that have to hear another organ drown out whoever is singing.

This does not mean I hate the organ, however ...
I know many reading this are organists as their means of income, so I will concede that if the organ is not a substitute for good singers, is not poor quality, not too loud, but plays mostly interludes or soft accompanying bass notes - I do not mind them. If you go back in history that's mainly what organs were ment to do anyway, Whatever church leglislation exists that allows organs to "take over" all the music, especially "four hymn sandwiches" is going against the spirit of the law and conceding to an abuse that is either hard to eliminate, or that bishops are too timid to eliminate, in the vein of "altar girls".

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My predecessor was big on P&W music, along with the guitars, flutes, tambourines and a conga drummer who knew next to nothing about keeping beat. Recently a parishioner came up to me and told me the music was too loud. I asked him if he had found it too loud in the past and he said "yes, but that music was good, so I never complained". Bottom line....it's not HOW it's played, it's WHAT is played. To some, even Latin chants that are barely audible will be too loud and anything that's played on an organ (GASP!!!!!.....what an awful instrument for worship!!!), will be considered hurtful to the ears. It reminds of of people who can sit through hard rock music in a small venue and enjoy every minute of it, yet find listening to a philharmonic orchestra in a huge concert hall is too much on the ears.

Unlike your parish, Charles, my parishioners WILL go the pastor. My pastor, however, will not back me up, even with me "implementing his instructions for worship". He tells the unhappy parishioner that "the music director makes those decisions", which gets him off the hook and puts it back on me. Needless to say, it's been a very difficult situation.

This concern, I believe, is best addressed when a parish has both a competent organist and competent choir director who, of course, see eye to eye and hear ear to ear on how to accompany singing by any number of singers, from one to hundreds.
Regarding the accompaniment of hymns what catholics (and likely more and more prots that haven't heard an organ in a generation) don't fundamentally get is the notion that each congregant should be purposefully listening for two sounds, one: that of the organ; two: that of his/her own voice conjoined (that word okay, Richard C?) to it singing the hymn.
But "in the moment" hand and eye communication between director and organist can mitigate aural imbalance immediately and positively, which would include increasing organ volume as well.
I don't know if Chris McA. is a card-carrying CMAA'er, but I get his POV and don't disavow it. I don't agree with it, as I believe "organ sez 'CHURCH'" definitively. But to think such a POV would cast a shadow over CMAA is simply silly.
What things that don't reflect well on us who are CMAA are intolerance, incessant griping, disingenuity, intransigence in argumentation, stereotyping, and a host of other normal Christian behaviors.
After deciding that an organ postlude was to permanently replace a dismissal hymn, I've been pleased to hear more incredible works, played superbly which has, if nothing else, shut the PIPs' up from gabbing away while they file out mid-piece. It makes a statement: this piece on this instrument is one of God's voices singing to our souls.

This concern, I believe, is best addressed when a parish has both a competent organist and competent choir director who, of course, see eye to eye and hear ear to ear on how to accompany singing by any number of singers, from one to hundreds.

Yup. What Melo said.
Organists can neither completely trust their own judgement of volume, nor can they rely on subjective feeeeeeeelings of parishioners, many of whom (regretably) do not like organ very much. A choir director as colleague is often best suited to help give realistic feedback about accompaniment issues.

As the youth say, CW:
"THIS."
And don't forget one of our all time faves:
"I don't care, I'm the priest and I want it done my way, now!"

This is not specific to organs. Performers can NEVER tell what they sound like to "the audience." No matter the space, no matter the instrument, no matter the performer.

By the way, also, nobody's mom is a good judge of whether an instrument is loud enough.

Adam

True, but, except for amplified instruments (cough, gag, cough, spit), it's tough for any acoustical instrument to reach the decibel level that an organ can hit with ease.

Kevin, of course there was no offense intended, and you are right that players should be paying attention to their situation.
You are also right about accompanying being a subtle art, and that many lack needed training.

The thrust of my point was clarified by Adam:

This is not specific to organs. Performers can NEVER tell what they sound like to "the audience." No matter the space, no matter the instrument, no matter the performer.

One can have a good idea of the basic sound, but levels and other feedback will be more precise as observed by an educated listener.

Congrats on 30 years! From what I've gathered over the years via your posts, you have done and are doing really great things for Jesus and His Church.

Years ago when I started (at the age of 9, playing keyboard for mass) I received complaints that all the music was too fast and others that ir was all slow and dreary at the end of the same mass.

I received complaints that all the music was too fast and others that ir was all slow and dreary at the end of the same mass.

How many times have I said it:
People don't know what they need. They usually don't even know what they like.

You cannot trust complaints from PIPs. They may be indicate the presence of a problem, but they will never be accurate about what the problem is.

I've recounted the story before, told by the estimable Gerre Hancock of happy memory, who was approached after his first service at St. Thomas 5th Ave by a dowager of the congregation. She said, "Mr. Hancock, we're so glad you're here, but . . . Mr. Hancock, you simply play the organ too loudly." He responded, without hesitation or acrimony, "Why, thank you so much for your feedback. I shall do my best to address your concern."

Several weeks later at coffee hour, the same dowager came up to Gerre and said, "Mr. Hancock, I must say your playing has improved since you arrived!" He said, "Why, thank you so much for your kind remark."

He'd changed not one single thing he was doing. He didn't change his registrations or his approach to hymn-playing. The woman clearly became used to his style and, having voiced her opinion and Gerre having had it acknowledged, she felt vindicated.

Priceless!

People who don't know and don't know that they don't know are often the easiest to deal with. It's the "one-book experts" you have to be very, very wary of!

Thank you, Mr. Andrew, I had not encountered this Gerre Hancock anecdote before (and, to my sorrow, I never heard him live), so am glad to have discovered the story.

As so often, Aesop got it about right centuries ago:

http://blog.iloveqatar.net/2013/01/the-man-the-boy-and-the-camel-lesson/

My response in one instance to the "can't hear themselves talk" was "didn't your mother teach you to not talk in church?"

I am pretty sure that in my mostly Polish parish, the same people who complain about the organ being too loud are heading out right after church to hear a Polka band that is twice as loud.