Parish Pastoral Council
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    No, Kathy, not at all. Remember that my above remarks are specific to the responsorial.
    I've always viewed Heritage as I do Creation, a so-called "Fall back/default" Mass. I would now say the ICEL occupies that space in my mind.
    But, as I've often lamented, the apples to passion fruit comparison you mention has a number of engendering reasons: the clear mandate by the USCCB (somewhat clarified by the degrees stated in Musicam sacram that portions of the Ordinary are the provenance, or more to be "owned" by the congregation, specifically the Credo and the Sanctus.
    The situation you encountered was an irreconcilable miscalculation, flatus in a sauna if you will. And it's probably not a stretch to think the director must suffer from what I dub is the Eugene Walsh syndrome that the "amen" MUST be a GREAT AMEN. Do you remember that the estimable Richard Proulx composed an octavo of about four "extended" amen endings to settings like the Dresden amen, the Vermulst amen, the Peoples' amen, etc., in a quasi-polyphonic manner? Yikes.
    OTOH, having done the Mueller, the Sherwin, the Clark Angelis among others, I'm still ill at ease that there seems to be no middle ground between the utility imagined above and the aesthetics demanded by the 1903 MP. and by the craft of composition itself.
    That argues very much for the use of actual Gregorian Ordinaries, of course. But, that is a very long row to hoe for many DMs and directors, yes?
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,033
    Well, the Gregorian Amen is the easiest thing in the world.
    Thanked by 2bkenney27 CHGiffen
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,033
    At one diocese's big Masses (ordinations and the like) I always brace myself at the Sanctus and Amen, because they are bound to be big Proulx numbers, complete with tympani and maybe horns. Egads.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Yeah, whatever happened to noble simplicity? But there should be "artful" polyphonic (in all senses) settings for we who actually like choirs of angels!
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,606
    Rubric from the Roman Missal:
    "At the end of the Eucharistic Prayer the trumpets, timpani, and organ shall blast forth with a Star Wars-ish melody, as though announcing the arrival of the Starship Enterprise, followed by a repeat of three, six, nine, or twenty-five amens, possibly follower by further trumpet."

    Now... Let us watch and see if the folks here point out that rubric doesn't exist or If their heads explode about Trek/Wars confusion.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,328
    Melo, was my comment (" There's probably too much Owen Alstott.") intended to be humorous?
    Yes.
    Was it successful?
    Apparently not.
    Was it uncharitable?
    I certainly did not intend it to be. And I fail to understand your point that my comment (" There's probably too much Owen Alstott.") is a negative judgment on Owen's body of work. I could make a similar comment about Ralph Vaughan Williams if his concertato on All People That on Earth Do Dwell, his communion versicle O Taste and See, and three of his hymn tune harmonizations were all to be used in the same celebration.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,033
    Matthew, be at peace, my dear Frodo...
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,031
    Matthewj, I was almost certain that rubric said, "Let the holy Ophicleides, Posaunes, and Contre Bombardes proclaim..."
  • Fr. Krisman - I did find it humorous. And I would say that there is legitimacy in such a critique of my programming (even if intended to be humorous) because it is never a good thing to allow one's programming to be dominated by one composer (unless, of course, that composer is Gregory the Great!)

    Alstott is very present in my programming because, as I said before, I find his material more liturgically minded than most. It is often modeled after traditional hymnody or chant and, in some cases, the propers (see his "Grant Them Eternal Rest" for the funeral Introit.)

    Anyhow - back to the topic at hand -
    Do keep in mind that that was only one piece of the email. There were other parts that are going to require further discussion, but this whole thing has me scratching my head. It also means my analysis of how the pastor handles this situation is not going to be as simple as the Option 1, Option 2 scenario PGA put forth earlier.

    As always, thanks for your help and support. I hope this is sparking fruitful discussion rather than making everyone feel uneasy or feel like I'm whining. :) I am, more or less, just trying to add to the wealth of practical information present on the forums.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,033
    I don't think you're whining. I think you're saying things in public that ought to be said in private, though. I feel like I've walked in on a private conversation.
    Thanked by 1bkenney27
  • kenstb
    Posts: 358
    In reading this thread, I've learned quite a lot from all of you. I looked at bkenney27's choices for Christmas and I found them perfectly wonderful. I often add an English translation to alternate with the Latin verses for hymns which may be unfamiliar to my congregation. This helps them to become accustomed to the meter and melody of the hymns. A hymn that you haven't mentioned for Christmas which I use every year is "Quem Pastores Laudavere".   

    IMHO, the criticism you have received reflects a bias against Latin. This is pretty common and you can overcome it with patience. These encounters are opportunities to teach if both sides actually listen to each other. Don't give up. This is God's work and we are privileged to do it.
    Thanked by 2bkenney27 canadash
  • As I continue to think about this situation the staff member that wrote the e-mail really gets me.

    We once had a business manager who didn't like the money I was spending to bring in singers. She just didn't agree with hiring singers. Anyhow, in her case, you might actually conclude that she has some business bringing it up, since it involved spending money and she WAS the business manager. Even then, the pastor told her that he and I had agreed to the practice and to butt out because it was really none of her business what he and I had decided and he, the pastor, had agreed to.

    I can't even imagine what response would come to someone who engaged in the e-mail mentioned. It might not be EXACTLY, word-for-word what I said in my number 1 scenario, but I'd bet you money that it'd be something substantially similar.
    Thanked by 1Jeffrey Quick
  • I had gone through something similar PGA, and my pastor also took an interest and sided with me.
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    So, sounds like he's definitely not siding with me.

    I'm meeting with him on Saturday and he sent me a four page letter to read in anticipation. The gist was mainly that he is taking final authority on music done at Mass and I am to submit music in a timely manner for discussion so he can make additions or changes, that my job description indicates I am to work with clergy and parish staff, that I am now required to take part in the liturgy committee and be in dialogue with the PPC, and that he is disappointed that I continued using Latin "hymns" even though he said not to. In fact, the word "disobedience" was used.

    In the meeting with him regarding the Latin, I had asked about acceptable uses. He gave approval for the Jesu, Rex on CTK with translations in the worship aid, and for things that "everyone knows" like the Agnus Dei and the first Latin verse of Adeste Fideles.

    I have used, since that meeting:
    1. Mass XVIII Agnus Dei
    2. Adeste Fideles vs. 1
    3. O Magnum Mysterium (with translations in the Worship Aid)
    4. Greek: Kyrie de Angelis

    Here's my logic:
    1. Specifically mentioned in the meeting as acceptable
    2. Same as 1.
    3. Used every Christmas since my appointment. Similar situation to the Jesu Rex
    4. As the parish has always used a Greek Kyrie (at least, in my time here) during Lent, the text here is not the problem. This practice (Greek, Gregorian Kyrie) has been strongly encouraged and validated (publicly) in his homilies.

    I guess, at least he's being direct now? I can't help but feel like I have failed and now the "parent" figure needs to step in and put the training wheels back on. I am thankful he's taking an interest in attempting to remedy the problem, but I fear that is only because they have had so many directors in such a short span of time....
  • No, you have not failed, but the people with clout in the parish have gotten to him and there is no way to fight this but to start looking for another position now.

    I went through this exact situation and the same words were used. You have to understand that he has other major battles he is dealing with and there are people who have gotten him to believe that you are disobeying what he said, taking advantage of the fact that he cannot concentrate on figuring out what is going on with you because of the other battles.

    The letter I got was handwritten and used phrases that came from someone other than himself who obviously had coached him in what was wrong and what to write.

    Culprits will be in the form of a KOC guy who always wears three piece suits and an alto who also sings soprano and both of them will probably be cantors. I wish that I were kidding.

    They have gotten to him and there is NOTHING that you can do to halt this.

    This is a classic When Sheep Attack situation. If you had gotten two copies of the book, shared one with him and then met him to discuss it a few days later this might have been solved. Once the rumors get to this point and he believes that you are disobeying....you're screwed, to use the proper term.

    You are in a toxic parish. Run like a bat out of....fear for its life. You knew that there was turnover there when you got the job. You are not the director of music, you are the moving target. Run, run, run, Rudolph.

    You could...and this is a long-shot, request a meeting with the diocesan HR officer and Father. But that could brand you for life in the diocese...do not request a meeting with the Bishop citing your right to Recourse under Canon law. If you do, Father will refuse to show up, you will meet with the Chancellor, get invited to Mass with the Bishop and the Chancellor who preaches that day about, (I am not kidding you) What Would Jesus Do, and then discover that the bishop refuses to see you and the Chancellor punches your TS card and shoves you out the door.

    Other than all this, how was your Christmas? Get coal in your stocking?
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Small wonder why, bk, they (whoever they are over the span of years) obviously are recalcitrant to vest a sacred music expert and proponent to "facilitate" (a word they probably love using as often as possible, as in "simulacra" ;-) the parish's evolution towards a veritable "catholic" ethos.
    Get yer resume in order, IMO.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 636
    I remember one pastor telling me that he was unhappy I was doing certain things. When I told him that I hadn't disobeyed and had always done as he requested, he replied (in as many words) that he expected me to anticipate what he wanted and do it without him having to tell me about it -- in other words, read his mind.

    Once there's a situation like that with a pastor, I've found it's basically the DM just following along without any real say. You get to keep the fancy title, but it's meaningless. Or at least it was in my case!

    In regard to sheep attacking, I have had, twice, a situation in which someone told the pastor a blatant lie about me and he (the pastor) took action against me before verifying whether or not the statement was true. In both cases, they were false, but the damage was already done. I don't know what it is, but pastors seem very quick to assume that anything a parishioner says about a DM to be true. Guilty 'til proven innocent -- and then you still get treated as if you're guilty because they don't want to admit to having made a mistake!
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    "If you could read my mind, love, what a tale my thoughts would tell...." (Lightfoot)
    Virtually all celebrants, not just pastors, expect every lay assist person to anticipate what they want, and to not be bothered 5 months, 5 days or 5 minutes before liturgy to acknowledge even a minimal checklist of preparation.
    Ergo, my rule is to stay put in the music "space" prior to Mass. We've done all our prep, we're on time and ready to rock, so....? Over decades that has, geez I dunno why, acquired an obvious inference to the last minute rush up of a cleric or his messenger, "Are you freaking kidding me? That's not going to happen. Thanks for the mess-age from the Swedish ambassador."
    Theodore Roosevelt may have been the harbinger of progressiveness in government/societal/cultural realms back in Arthur Connick's day, but his "speak softly and carry a big stick" rule works for me.
  • To reiterate what others have said: get out ASAP. Surely you can do better than this place and keep your sanity. Find another job.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,796
    If he said no Latin, the way to stay in compliance is to use no Latin. That's much more prudent than trying to figure out the exceptions, and having him deny them later.
  • kenstb
    Posts: 358
    Many are the sorrows of the music director. My sympathy goes out to you, bkenney27. You haven't failed. What you are describing is common. Some pastors feel the need to placate the folks who complain the most.  Some pastors trust our training and experience, while others dont. I have been in my current parish for 20 years and have seen 4 pastors come and go. I have never had a problem directing the music for the entire parish (which worships in English, Spanish and Portuguese) until the current pastor arrived. Mind you, I only gave direction on the few occasions that we all worked together in those trilingual masses that I have grown to despise. Unfortunately, these masses are imposed upon us at the worst times. (eg...Christmas Eve, Holy Thursday and Glorious Saturday) each of the communities has its own choir director.  The new pastor allows them to do as they please, seeking (it seems) to be friends with them rather than their supervisor. As a non musician, he does not possess the background to do so.

    The former pastors would consult me with respect to the music and it was my duty to make certain that all of the music was appropriate and well rehearsed.   I reviewed selections (attending additional rehearsals if necessary) and notified all of the participants (choirs, lectors, EM'S, Altar Servers) by email of the final program and their places in it at least a week prior to the mass. I also insisted on all choirs joining in the Kyrie (in Greek), Alleluia, Amen, Sanctus and Agnus Dei (in Latin).

    The current pastor is apparently more interested in being the liturgist himself, and doesn't enjoy or want the input of anyone who actually knows what they are doing. The result is that on Christmas Eve 2013, one cantor and choir sang the WRONG psalm. One of the community's lectors forgot to proclaim the Word, so it was skipped.  The so - called charismatic influence appeared as well as another choir actually had the audacity to sing a Sanctus in which they changed the words of that angelic hymn. The same choir also altered the words of the Agnus Dei.  One choir actually did a version of "Santa Claus is Coming to Town".   These were sung in the vernacular (not English). After hearing the Santa Claus piece, I actually went out to my car and cried a little.  

    I was able to squeeze in some Latin (Adeste Fideles and Quem Pastores Laudavere) and Greek (Kyrie- Missa De Angelis), and a few decent parts (Gloria - Leopold Syre) but since we split up the parts between choirs, and no one feels the obligation to share what they were going to sing, everything was a surprise...a very unpleasant surprise. BUT...we are called to build great things...ANYWAY.
  • I have had experiences exactly like the Catholic Choirbook and TJC, and I concur - look for another position in another parish now. In my experience, I was ousted by unnamed anonymous people, (2 people I think), although like Catholic Choirbook, I could tell who one of them was by the phrasing Father used in his letter. I was never allowed to face my accusers to discuss with them or explain to them why I used occasional Latin at Mass.

    You should be thankful, bkenny 27, that you are now on the parish liturgy committee. In the only parish I was in that ever had a liturgy committee, I was not on it. They dictated to me exactly what I was to do for every Mass. I had no input at all. I resolved that I would never again be in a parish where, if it had a liturgy committee, I was not allowed to be part of it.

    Also, in my experience, I would not follow Catholic Choirbook's suggestion to contact the diocesean Human Resources department. HR is only interested in preserving the pastor's position, the liturgy commission's position, or the parish council's position. They will go with the leader(s) every time. They are not interested in you. They are not interested in the Truth, or in what the Church teaches or what the Pope says. They are
    only interested in corporate profits. Truly. The head of HR in my diocese is not even a Catholic. The whole concept of Human Resources, as if human beings were just something to use and throw away like material objects, is sick and has no place in the Catholic dioceses. I have been there and I have done that. I was only ridiculed publicly by them. Diocesean liturgical commissions are no help either. They will side with Father and/or the parish council every time. They will believe whatever lies someone on the parish council says over you every time. They are only interested in following the "parish leaders" just like HR is. And no one in charge of liturgical music is ever considered to be a "leader". This is my experience.
  • kenstb
    Posts: 358
    It is very difficult to sit through Liturgy Committee meetings if you are the only one who understands Catholic liturgy. Remember also that complaining to a bishop or diocesan committee can backfire on you. Not everyone who passes through the church doors is a Christian.

    I don't think that you should quit unless you are finished or unable to finish the good work that God called you to that parish to do. I would also advise that it is never good to find yourself in open opposition to the pastor. The canon law speaks about him, not us. In the end, he is responsible for teaching, preaching and sanctifying the parishioners under his care. You should comply to the letter with his demands unless you feel violated by doing so.
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    If he said no Latin, the way to stay in compliance is to use no Latin. That's much more prudent than trying to figure out the exceptions, and having him deny them later.


    He said there needed to be a "moratorium" and when I questioned it, we came up with a few, very clear (I thought) exceptions. I had, as you know, already been rehearsing the choir for the Jesu Rex and he approved that. And, as I said, we had specifically mentioned the Agnus Dei XVIII.

    I also should point out that the Parochial Vicar was visibly (and audibly) disappointed when I refused to chant the Kyrie in Greek during Advent in light of this. He always uses the Confiteor and, from Day 1 of his time here, indicated a clear preference for a sung Kyrie. So, after more discussion and him vehemently insisting that I teach it to the congregation before Mass, I did. The results have been wonderful so far.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,606
    Don't listen to the folks here. If you're truly unhappy then look for another position. If you like your job do good English hymns, English chant, good organ music, etc. If you worry you're doing a disservice to the parish, choir, liturgy, etc... Ask yourself who they'd hire to replace you. Odds are can run a beautiful and faithful music program and keep your job. Use a bit more charm and befriend your enemies. They can't hate you if they love you.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,033
    You work for the pastor, not the Vicar. And not for us, by the way. Everyone on this forum could tell you that you are doing an incredible job, but we're not the ones you need to impress.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • The one thing I can never understand is the outright bans on Latin, and Latin specifically. To me, this is clearly someone elses agenda, and doesnt have anything to do with the Pastor, but for some reason the poor man has to be involved with it. My two cents for what it's worth is this: there are some people who use the church environment to play out their power grabs. Music is one of those areas that they use as leverage, and if the Pastor does not support you, that's what you become: leverage, especially since you are overseeing an area that many do not fully understand, so it's easy to control the information people receive about it. This is why it is so important to stay in contact with your Pastor, and educate him to the best of your ability. This is the only way he will see through the lies and manipulations. If you're fortunate like I am, you have a Pastor that asks for this.
    Thanked by 1hilluminar
  • dad29
    Posts: 1,722
    You are in a toxic parish. Run like a bat out of....fear for its life.


    That's not the only 'toxic parish' out there, either. I just got executed by a KOC member and a poisonous woman who were able to stir up a lot of trouble, too.

    "Cost" was their excuse, but (long story short) it's the Party Hearty Good Times Charlie liturgy crowd v. Catholic liturgy.

    Stuff happens. Shake the dust of that town off your sandals and move on.
  • Again, it's about the PASTOR. The problem is not liturgy committees, complainers, parochial vicars, or anything else. All of these are kept in check by the right pastor.

    My parish has a liturgy committee. They don't bother me one bit and I don't dread the meetings. They are advisory only, and we spend more time collaboratively planning decorations and what days and times special events should occur.

    The last time someone brought up a music "complaint" at a meeting, it was a member who had went to mass somewhere else and heard "Table of Plenty." She asked if we could do it. I said "No, we really couldn't even if I wanted to. That's OCP and we don't own a reprint license for them. It would also be really expensive to buy a single use license just to reprint that one song." (True) And that was that.

    It's all about the pastor.
  • donr
    Posts: 940
    The parish I am at loves P&W stuff. I get one mass to do more traditional music.
    Over the past 3 years I have added the Antiphons, introduced some Latin and got an actual (small) choir with parts together for Holidays.
    I am expected to do whatever Mass Ordinary the others are doing so that we are all doing the same one (no matter how bad they are).
    However, I grin and bare it. I work (not really I volunteer) for the pastor and he makes the rules. He does respect my knowledge of Liturgy (I'm the only one in the music ministry who can have a conversation with him). So I do get to teach about sacred music, or why I'm doing what I'm doing to the congregation. He is giving me more and more authority over the others and I know his heart is toward Sacred Music. He just doesn't like conflict so he lets people do what they do.

    I say if you have the job and you know you can affect change (without being fired) than keep your job and move toward the ideal slower.
    I like the plan of making them like you. Be on the Lit comit.

    As a sales engineer I have learned that you will get a better result by asking leading questions rather than teaching.
    In the Lit comit meeting when someone brings up the music. Simply ask them a question so that you can understand more fully why they think this way. You don't have to have a response. Just ask the question and listen to the answer.
    Thank them for their answer, then in the months that come, simply drop them tibits.
    More questions or suggestions in a friendly manor like "Hey we are on the Lit comit, right, how do we know what vestment colors are to be worn on a particular day".
    Wait for the answer, they know where it is, ask them to show you.
    Do this often and when you feel the time is right, show that person the Roman Missal III edition. Point out that even through Vatican II and 40 years later, the church is asking us to sing the chants (in Latin even), play the Organ and what ever else you want bring out. Tell this person that you take your ministry very seriously and wish to honor God and his Church, and that you are only seeking to his will.
    I have broken down many barriers at my church by such an approach.
    Whatever you do, do not come across as harsh or uncompromising.

    It sounds like you have been moving slowly already, but some need it to move even slower. Back off a little, when you want to add a Latin piece, show it to the pastor, explain why you want to learn it and ask to use it. Its OK to humble yourself.

    If you keep everything in the open and move toward the ideal, you win in the end.

    God Bless,
    Thanked by 2bkenney27 CHGiffen
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    The problem is, in HAD the Pastor's support. I frequently checked in with him and asked him "How do you think things are going, and do you have any criticism?" I almost always got "Nope! It's great." It's a very delicate situation because I'm certain he agrees with whomever it is he happens to be speaking which is what has put me in this position and made it seem like I'm not listening to him. We RARELY use Latin, and the Latin wasn't even at the heart of the issue when I started this thread. It was simply the fact that the congregation (read: PPC) felt it selection of hymns was majorly unfamiliar. This development (the Pastor's letter) came in the middle of Christmastide when I have been using Christmas Carols (with the exception of a few selections on Holy Family and Mary, Holy Mother of God) so it is clear to me something else over which I have no control is going on. I know for fact from a reliable source that there are not only congregation members, but STAFF members trying to get me out (and I told the Pastor that so he could be alert for such manipulative conversations), but it seems like they're winning and there's nothing I can do about it.

    With regard to our Lit Committee, our Director of Liturgy is the only person on staff that I know supports me 100% so I don't dread the Liturgy or what they are going to tell me to do nearly as much as some others might. However, in May, her position was cut from 15 hrs/wk to 200 hrs/year so, in addition to not having any support around the office at all anymore (with the exception of the three men in collars that DON'T hold any weight), SHE is just bout as unhappy with the church as I am.

    I don't know. I have a strong feeling that trying to fix this, even if it is possible, is just going to lead to a damaging end on my resume and, as this is my first position as DM, I can't afford that. On the flip side, there aren't any jobs in my area right now so I would need to move across the country to take another one, if anyone else decided to hire me without a degree.

    Happy 2014, everyone!
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Don't listen to the folks here

    Yeesh, kid gets a cathedral with a cool bishop, and the rest of us become pawns.
    Thanked by 1ryand
  • I will say this ... "Don't listen to the folks here" if you want to be fired just when you thought things finally weren't AS bad and were getting better ... i.e., when you don't see it coming.

    If you need to get out of full time ministry, do it. Get a job as an assistant manager at the GAP if you have to, for $30,000/yr until you find a better parish job. At least you won't be tossed out and need to find a job within the month or lose your house.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,031
    That's good advice, PGA.
  • Thanks Charles.

    It's painful to watch because I've been there. At my last job I took my own advice and quit before I could be shown the door.

    In fact, not to pat myself on the back, but I'd at least managed to handle things in a manner so as to get the ensured temporary support of the pastor - and it was explicitly temporary. He said "When your contract comes up, I will renew you for one more year if you want to stay, but during that year there needs to be major changes and we need to work together closely." I took that to mean I could guarantee myself a job for a year while I looked for a new position. I finally told him "I want to be as upfront with you as you've been with me. I am looking for a new position in [faraway city where I'm originally from]. If I find one, I'll take it; if not, I'd like to take you up on your offer for another year. I promise to communicate to you in plenty of time so that you aren't caught in a lurch."

    I ended up moving back.

    If Brenden doesn't do something he WILL be caught off guard. I remember that nightmare place vividly; just when I had a seemingly breakthrough conversation with some cantankerous person - and it seemed like we'd cordially agreed to disagree and had become friends, things would seem to get a bit better. No big bombshells for a few weeks. Then - WHAM. A HEATED e-mail to the pastor, from another complainer, with him coming to me and saying "We've still got major problems. We've got to get this right." There were only moments of tranquility followed by the hammer dropping when I least expected it.

    I don't miss that place.
  • Jani
    Posts: 386
    Not being overly-negative just for its own sake here, but being "nice" at this point will get you doodley-squat, bk. Someone wants you gone- no doubt someone who is jealous of your hair - and the game is over.
    Thanked by 1hilluminar
  • Yep. And apparently they don't have a good history with musicians. I wonder why. They will dig their own hole and have no one decent willing to work for them. The music will be left to volunteers, things will get bad ... people will leave who didn't think they had a dog in the fight but just don't like badly done music of any stripe ... the parish will suffer. And they will get what they deserve.
  • Ben YankeBen Yanke
    Posts: 3,114
    Yup. One of my parishes is in the process of trying to rid themselves of paid musicians (if the PC has it's way). I'm afraid things aren't going to be pretty when all is said and done. But we'll see.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,796
    And apparently they don't have a good history with musicians. I wonder why.

    THIS.
    Thanked by 2bkenney27 CHGiffen
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,606
    Too much negativity and drama.

    One can take a bad situation and turn it into a good one.

    Adapt, keep working, be positive and upbeat (in personality), and don't believe that the sky is falling. Work with your Pastor through this time, get through this rough patch and you'll be fine.
    Thanked by 1ryand
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    I do have to say that I am not even angry or even truly upset by he Pastor's remarks. I am overwhelmingly RELIEVED that he is finally being direct and taking a side. It's the wrong side, but it at least gives me somewhere to start. I am going to meet with him this week and see what he has to say, smile and nod, and cry on the inside or when I get home. I'll do whatever he wants me to do for a few months, won't argue him on any choices he makes with regard to music, and let HIM see what it's like to be in the position of choosing music for this parish. They can't attack me if he has the final authority and all my decisions cross his desk. Hopefully there is a lesson to be learned by him here.

    In the meantime, I will circulate my resume and see what happens. That way, all bases are covered.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,031
    Keep everything as peaceful as possible while you look for something else. From reading a number of your posts, this does not sound like a happy place to work.
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    It's not, and it's sad. Many in the congregation are thankful for what I am doing and that they no longer need to worry that the pianist (no, they did not have an organist) might come in late for Mass, hungover, with a bottle of bright orange Gatorade placed on the piano, in front of the tabernacle, for quick access during Mass.

    Unfortunately, I think those that are complaining and working to get me out forget that it was like that or, worse, didn't see anything wrong with it.

    Again, the silver lining here is that my pastor is willing to work with me whether or not I agree with him, and he is FINALLY, Deo gratias (Oh, I'm sorry! That means "Thanks be to God"), taking a direct approach, the lack of which in the past has brought to where we are now.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,404
    I am reading a mystery novel, set in Quebec (ironic non?), about a group of Monks who sing Gregorian Chant. The choirmaster is murdered and no one is talking. This is the premise... I suppose you are still here BK. Things could be worse.
    Thanked by 1bkenney27
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,250
    martyrdom can be white or red... but it is still martyrdom.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW bkenney27
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,031
    In my parish, the ppc has nothing to do with music. Of course, several of my most dedicated and loyal choir members are also on the ppc - can make a difference.

    Age and treachery can overcome youth and skill. ;-)
  • So can Bolshevism, francis...

    The above should be purple but I'm not sure how to do that from my phone!
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    I have attached our current planner through March 2 which I submitted to the pastor for approval. I would, again, be interested in hearing any input from you folks on this as well. Between this, and the one I posted earlier in the thread, you have in your hands nearly six months of programming to review. (I sent both to the pastor as well asking him what he would have wanted to be done differently for past Masses and thanked him for his willingness to work with me on this.)
  • bkenney27bkenney27
    Posts: 444
    Everyone on this forum could tell you that you are doing an incredible job, but we're not the ones you need to impress.


    Correct, but understanding that I am on the same page as my colleagues helps counteract the overwhelming feeling that I am insane and that my direction is failing or downright wrong. Because that's the feeling the staff at my parish is giving me. If I know the direction I am trying to take is validated by others, it helps in forming my overall goal for the Ministry and deciding where compromise is possible where made necessary by the fact I work for a pastor that sees change necessary.
  • A bit of unsolicited advice:

    If you're trying to salvage your situation there, or even looking somewhere else, stop posting too many specifics here. If you want advice, ask for it via private message. Here, you have put yourself way out there. I don't think you've said anything inappropriate or unprofessional here, but many will see it as airing dirty laundry.
    Thanked by 1Liam