Moving slowly versus inertia
  • Cantor
    Posts: 84
    Noel wrote:
    No, we do not sing the psalm from the Pulpit (remember, there is a difference between ambones and...pulpiti?) my psalmists will sing it from a step, as specified in its name. And silence is often the most beautiful prayer....and silence can be enhanced by a beautiful chant melody...the silence before and after it is the canvas it's beauty is painted on.


    Ok, I’ll bite....what are you saying is the difference between an ambo and a pulpit? That an ambo is a raised structure, and a pulpit is just a “shelf”?

    I think the usage of a definition of “ambo” as “the place where the Scriptures are proclaimed” is widespread enough to concede at least some legitimacy to this definition, even if at some point it was formed by ignorance or contempt of tradition.

    I know “gradual” is from “gradus” (or however that one declines...), but I think it’s a reach to use that term to determine how to sing the modern responsorial psalm....unless I am missing something.

    We sing the antiphon, the psalmist sings (unfortunately...there is a life and death struggle going on to get them to abandon the OCP melodies and sing psalm tones) and they all sing the antiphon at the end.


    What are the “OCP melodies”? In most parishes I have seen, GIA (Guimont, Gelineau, or Haugen/Haas/Joncas) or Respond & Acclaim (which, though OCP, uses psalm tones) reign supreme for the responsorial psalm.

    This has stopped them from rushing through verses and eliminated interrupting the psalm with little responsorial jingles. It is better to have the people either meditating on the antiphon or listening to the verses than to be thinking, "When do we sing?"


    The responsorial psalm can be done tastefully, such that the repeats of the antiphon/refrain do not come across as “jingles” and are very clear as to when they happen. I make a point to make a dramatic difference in the organ’s registration between when the congregation sings versus when the cantor sings alone. Also, pauses at the ends of the verses make it pretty clear--especially if you’re using Gelineau, which has a pulse to its verses.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Ambo
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01381e.htm

    Psalm Tones, in the historic forms....or in the adapted English Meinrad forms....

    The Gradual is titled for where it is sung as part of the gradual procession up to the pulpit or higher to the ambo. It was not sung from a pulpit or ambo, as authenticated below from a google search:

    grad·u·al (grj-l)
    adj.
    Advancing or progressing by regular or continuous degrees: gradual erosion; a gradual slope.
    n. Roman Catholic Church
    1. The liturgical book containing the chants for the Mass.
    2. A biblical text sung between the Epistle and the Gospel of the Mass.
    [Middle English, having steps, from Medieval Latin gradulis, from Latin gradus, step; see grade. N., Middle English, from Medieval Latin gradule, the part of the service sung by the choir from the altar steps, gradual, from neuter sing. of gradulis.]
    gradu·al·ly adv.
    gradu·al·ness n.

    Yes, the way you sing the psalms is one way to sing them. The way we sing them is also proper and is the result of a pastoral decision by the pastor, in line with the recommendations of STTL that pastoral decisions overcome all. I do like it, and I suggested it.

    The use of only one location to declaim the scriptures is a very modern one, as the pulpit or an ambo was reserved for the Gospel. Hence the reference to Gospel side or Epistle side rather than stage left or stage right.
    pulpit.jpg
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    ambo.jpg
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  • Michael O'Connor
    Posts: 1,637
    Gavin,

    All due respect, but until Rome tells me I have to sing a crappy song instead of the Offertory chant, I'm just meditating during that time. I really think that a good number of people don't sing because the music is difficult for them or lousy. Many more don't sing because they are self conscious. Chicken and egg. My wife won't sing because no one else around her is. All those other people are thinking the same thing.
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    Interesting photos, frogman. Not likely a feature of too many churches built in the century since the Catholic Encyclopedia you reference was published.

    One can only imagine Crocodile Cardinal Dundee now: "That's not an ambo. THIS is an ambo!"
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    I have had little luck finding a pic of the Ambo in Barga, Italy where I was for awhile....yes, THIS is an ambo....and it WAS something that you ascended to....not that I ever did. Now that's an example of a sacred space.

    I just can't seem to visualize an arm waving cantor up in one of those....probably because they would be too obvious a target for tomatoes. And the seeds are so hard to clean from marble.

    Michael, your wife is not alone. Any church with crappy (got chewed out last night for using that term in a choir rehearsal) acoustics discourages singing, as the sound does not wrap around you, like a comfortable blanket, but leaves you feeling like you are a cantor standing in an AMBO during the height of tomato growing season.

    SPLAT!
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Michael,

    Here's your sign!


    If 98% of Catholics are Latin Rite....why are we not singing Latin? Is English Rite the coming thing? [ducking tomatoes]
    churchsign.jpg
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  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Hmm...wonder if they will repossess our Glory & Praise books after this?
  • Michael O'Connor
    Posts: 1,637
    Well, we've made the compromise of going to the "last-chance" Mass on Sunday evenings with no music whatsoever. I sometimes think it's sad but then I glance at the "hymnal" in the pew slot and am quite relieved. I have some peace, now. The only music I do at church these days is with my schola when we are invited to a church. Next event is Vespers I for Immaculate Conception.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    Don't come to our "last chance Mass" on Sunday afternoon . . . that's when the "contemporary ensemble" holds forth. I just received their music list for next month. . . . egads!
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