Mass booklet - assistance
  • donr
    Posts: 935
    What programs do use to create a music booklet (program) for Mass.
    The last time I tried to make one was for Lent and it did not look very nice.
    I used MS Publisher. When I tried to shrink down the music, it gets way to small and doesn't look very nice.
  • I have used Word & Publisher to make very nice worship aid/booklets. How are you inputting the music?
  • donr
    Posts: 935
    I've tried to copy and paste but as I made the image smaller it becomes unreadable.
    The only way that I got it to look half way decent was to physically cut paper and glue it in place. I felt like I was in Kindergarten again.
  • Copy and paste from what?
  • Ben YankeBen Yanke
    Posts: 3,113
    I use Scribus, an open source and free high-end-consumer/semi-professional level typesetting program. It's not quite as automated, but if you can figure it out, it gives you a lot of control, which I like (and feel like I don't get with MS word).

    For simplicity sake, I find myself reengraving most, if not all the music I use. I always use folded 8.5x11s, so space is at a premium, and by the time I try to resize and squeeze in music from different sources, I could have already just reengraved it to fit perfectly and been done with it.
    Thanked by 1E_A_Fulhorst
  • aldrich
    Posts: 217
    I have always used MS Publisher and my books and booklets turn out just fine. Here's a sample posted here elsewhere: http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/uploads/FileUpload/dd/556c9940777c3ef1e634101d7118e4.pdf
  • I use Publisher for worship aids as well. If the music is coming out too small, it probably has to do with the image you're using. I input everything into Sibelius first (even if I already have a graphic of it). That way, I can adjust the measures-per-line, margins, and other size issues.

    What is the size of aid you're trying to make?
  • donr
    Posts: 935
    I will be trying to make 8.5" x 11" folded.
    Irishtenor I find an electronic copy of the music generally a PDF. I use Adobe photo shop to crop and resize the image but it just doesn't work out well.

    I will try some of the suggestions here, thanks all.
  • aldrich
    Posts: 217
    I use Finale for inputting music, and then I resize the systems to around 125 or 140% and then print the thing out through OneNote. By then I can resize the music to fit the page layout I use. (I'm illiterate in directly placing music into a word or publisher document.)
    Thanked by 1donr
  • It depends what you are putting into the mass leaflet to start with.

    If all the hymns for the occasion are in the hymnal, I just write something like:

    Processional Hymn: "Holy God We Praise Thy Name" (Hymn No. 710)

    If it is a special hymn for the occasion, I will provide a melody line with the words underneath. For some well-known hymns such as "Firmly I Believe and Truly" which is almost always sung to Drake's Broughton in Australia, I can usually get away with just printing the words, or putting two lines of melody on the sheet and words separately below.

    I often use Gregorian Chant for the propers of the mass, and provide a graphic of these. I don't know if anyone can actually read the neumes, but it helps for those who can and I hope that the congregation picks it up as they go.

    I also provide the melody line and words for the Psalm Response.
    Thanked by 1donr
  • I use MS word. I press cntrl and prt sc together, then paste that into Paint, then copy it into word. It works fine for me. I find that if I make the original image larger before snapping the printscreen, it comes out clearer in the end, even if I have to break the music apart and paste it a few lines at a time.
    Thanked by 1donr
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,281
    Adobe InDesign
    Thanked by 1donr
  • I recommend putting the music into Finale if possible and then using the Graphics tool to save an image of the music as a TIFF file at a high resolution. You can then import the image into Word or Publisher just as you would any other image. Similar to what Andrew Motyka said, this allows you to select the font size of the lyrics (keeps things from getting too small) and to select how many measures there are per line (also to keep things from getting too small).

    If you're getting the music from a PDF, CTRL+Print Screen and pasting that into Paint is not a terrible way to go, despite how silly (and '90s!) it sounds. If you're doing this, make sure that you zoom into the PDF document so you have the best resolution possible when you move it into Paint and later into Publisher/Word.
    Thanked by 1donr
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Why isn't the secretary doing this kind of stuff like in protestant churches? I've never understood that, it just seems naturally like a job for them, rather than for the musician.
  • donr
    Posts: 935
    Gavin, I agree but in my little church its every ministry for themselves.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,281
    I would prefer to do it myself.
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 978
    When I was doing this I also found it easier to do myself than to explain to a non-musician. I guess I'm a little bit of a control freak that way.

    For me, the most crucial step was to expand the PDF output REALLY huge (I have a 1280x2048 pixel screen), capture it with prtsc, then fix it up in Paint. I would often move things together vertically, as some programs insert more white space than I had room for.

    Final assembly in Word (if paragraph flow is needed) or PowerPoint. Just because I'm really comfortable with those.
    Thanked by 3donr ryand tomboysuze
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,481
    Carl, some image programs are able to read in a PDF page directly, and set the resolution as high as you need for good print quality. That way, you may not need to do the trick about making a screen capture. (As for me, I use the free image editor "Gimp", and it's able to do this.)
    Thanked by 2donr ryand
  • LaTeX - but I learnt it doing computers at Uni, and it's a steep learning curve, but it's free. Also it's what gregorio is most at home in, though you can use modern notation through lilypond or pmx/musixtex.
  • aldrich
    Posts: 217
    I guess I'm Jurassic. I still use Grégoire for Gregorian notation.
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 978
    Gregoire is my favorite too, despite its occasional quirks.
  • For Chants and hymns I prefer to do al the artwork well in advance so that I can just paste it straight into the leaflet. I will eventually have a library of such items which I can just re-use as necessary.

    When a hymn is 5 verses of more, I find it useful for put a line under the first couple of bars of the third hymn verse. It helps the congregation more readily find which line they are meant to be singing.

    1114 x 613 - 53K
  • I have used Noteworthy software for quite a few years and have had good results with it. It creates files that can be inserted like artwork into Word documents. The latest version has a feature for "turning off" note stems if you want to use modern notation for chant. The cost is quite reasonable I think. I use the Meinrad fonts in Word for Gregorian notation, it's keystroke-intensive but once you get used to it is quite satisfactory. You can turn the finished Word documents into .pdf format if you wish. Sometimes I use scissors, glue sticks and the copy machine too!

    I have always had to produce my own pew bulletins or "worship aids". Our parishes are clustered 3-6 parishes and very lightly staffed, commonly part-time administrative employees, and already overtasked. They are very good at what they do, but not trained in music or notation software. Besides, I rather enjoy doing it.
  • I also use Finale which I purchased back when I was in school at a discount and I upgrade only rarely. It doesn't do square note but stemless noteheads are easy to do.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 3,991
    Actually Finale (from Finale 2005 onwards, at least) does do square notes. Go do Document>Document Options, select "Note and Rests" and on that pane use "Notehead Characters:" to chose the notehead(s) you want to select and/or change.

    Here are PDF files of scores that have square notes, which I prepared using Finale 2005:

    John Sheppard: Salvator mundi Domine

    John Taverner: Gloria from Missa Gloria tibi Trinitas
    Thanked by 2irishtenor Earl_Grey
  • I use an old version of Microsoft Publisher and simply type in the music lines (for the congregation) using Meinrad Melody or Chant fonts: works reasonably well. Attached is a random example of a service sheet I've done. It's one page from a four-page order of service (A3 folded)image
  • Remember the mimeograph machines? We've come a long way, baby. :)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • donr
    Posts: 935
    where does one find chant fonts that one can type right into publisher. I've looked, downloaded a couple but really haven't found anything that works.
  • Ugly square notes ... does Finale do Solemes-style neumes?
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 3,991
    Ugly square notes ... does Finale do Solemes-style neumes?
    Alas, no, at least not without a buggy plugin which hardly is worth its cost. Finale's native, metrical organization is not conducive to engraving neumes with anything like the facility of Gregorio.
    Thanked by 1E_A_Fulhorst
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 1,325
    donr

    I find Caeciliae the best of the chant fonts, but I use it in Apple Pages. Its advantage is that the codes for each neume can be easily remembered. Other chant fonts have a different keyboard unicode for each possibility (Festa Dies, medicea etc.)

    Microsoft Word was not able to run Caecilia, but the new edition should run it, I don't know about Publisher but that may have the same problem.

    The Adobe programs will all run Caeciliae.

    I have worked with people that use Publisher, and to place chant into the Program, I type the chant in Pages, save as .pdf and then the chant can be cut and pasted into Publisher, in the same way that the .pdf Liber Usualis can be pasted in.
  • donr

    For single lines of music in service sheets just use Meinrad fonts. Google 'Meinrad Archabbey fonts' or similar, and you'll find some documentation. These fonts have some limitations, though they can do most things needed for a congregational sheet, but they're easy to input and work with MS Publisher.
    Thanked by 1donr
  • donr
    Posts: 935
    Thank you Ambrosius, these fonts are exactly what I was looking for.

    Do you also know of a font similar for round notes without stems?
  • done

    If you buy all the Meinrad fronts (3 plainsong and 3 standard music), one of the standard fonts has stemless round notes. I use them for English chant, as in the new Missal, keeping the square notes for chant Latin words
    Thanked by 1donr
  • donr
    Posts: 935
    I see that now. I downloaded the Melody Fonts and they are all there.
    Thanks again for your help.
    Thanked by 1E_A_Fulhorst
  • I severely disagree with using modern notation for chant for the simple reason that it locks you into a certain pitch. The old 4-line chant notation allows you to quite easily transpose because you understand that you are reading notes of a scale rather than an absolute pitch. Modern notation also implies a certain meter which chant does not and should not have. Even when I accompany chant on the organ, I write Do/Fa = X and then a series of guitar chords (eg Em/D) as a convenient shorthand for the accompaniment. I am already used to transposing up/down a whole step from when I used to play guitar (a wrist injury means that I cannot really play for more than a couple of minutes at a time), and I have several years of formal piano training which has helped me develop keyboard technique.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 3,991
    If you keep to a key signature with at most one flat, modern notation is no more difficult to transpose than chant notation ... unless that fifth line is a real problem. Also, if you use only C-clefs and F-clefs, then the meaning of C (Do) and F (Fa) is clear and equivalent to the chant notation set up ... again except for the pesky (?) fifth line. It appears that G-clefs were not used for chant, since traditionally G-clefs were reserved for treble voices ... which were not the norm for male voices.

    It is not uncommon to see a hymn presented in one key in a hymnbook, yet accompanied and sung in a different key ... even when the hymnbook presents the music with several flats or sharps; of course, transposition for singers is generally much easier (or should be much easier) than it is for some instrumentalists.
    Thanked by 2Andrew Motyka Gavin
  • Surely, using modern notation (stemless, as in the new Missal) is perfectly sensible for English chant in orders of service, as such documents are for the congregation's use: they need a clear line of notes to help them participate - issues of transposition don't arise. Square notes are fine too!
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,011
    I have done booklets for years, and always used publisher. Here are some examples.
    Thanked by 1Ambrosius
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 9,569
    ghmus7, those look really good.
  • Being technology challenged, I prepare my leaflets in Word.
    I wish I had made time to learn to set notes in addition to words!
  • Ben YankeBen Yanke
    Posts: 3,113
    Here's a few of mine. The files are a little big...as I mentioned above, I use scribus.

    http://blog.yankehome.com/liturgy/worship-aids/
    Thanked by 2Ambrosius CHGiffen
  • Ben YankeBen Yanke
    Posts: 3,113
    Daniel,

    Yours look VERY good. I really like them.
  • Does anyone know of an Internet forum where people who've done the tedious grind of typing out chant or hymn-melodies or whatnot (e.g. for orders of service), in whatever digital format they've used, share their work?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,281
    This one, mostly.
  • That WOULD be a really good resource to have online, as long as there are no copyright implications... Would there be copyright implications?

    I just put "At that first Eucharist" and "Alleluia! Sing to Jesus" into Finale last night, in anticipation of using them in a worship aid next week. Would it be problematic to post that stuff online? Would it be problematic for others to do the same, eventually creating a little virtual hymnal?

    I'm thinking of melody and text only. I'm aware of the "English Hymns in the Commons" project, which is great, but not so useful for congregational worship aids.
  • Ben YankeBen Yanke
    Posts: 3,113
    If you use Gregorio, the entire Graduale, as well as many other chants are all transcribed here:

    http://www.caecilia-project.org/directory/

    and can be processed here: http://illuminarepublications.com/gregorio/
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,281
    I'm in the process of re-training myself, so this is as much directed at me as anyone:
    It would be wise for all of us to get comfortable with Lilypond (for common-practice notation) and Gregorio (for Chant). The seeming hassle of text-entry for music is a minor hurdle, and the longterm result (Open Source data formats for Public Domain music) is incredibly worthwhile.

    Unlike closed formats (Finale, Sibelius), open formats allow for programmatic data manipulation. This could/will lead to all sorts of cool mash-up applications, for example:
    -a utility to pair a text and tune and have the score generated automatically.
    -auto-formatting of worship aides using semantic templates
    -computerized analysis of musical content, which allows for:
    --indexing and searching based on musical content
    --large scale analysis of compositional trends
    --auto-harmonization based on specific styles or periods
    --tutorials and interactive lessons on music theory, composition, and arranging

    The possibilities are really quite extraordinary, and have been in-process for decades. But now that "normal" people have the tools and the computer skills to contribute to these projects, and the rendering technology has improved enough to make these tools feasible in production-quality scores, I'm hoping we'll see a turning point for truly Open Source music and a giant leap forward in practical applications. Much like Gregorian Chant and Classical Music- this stuff needs to liberated from the University available to the Masses.

    (Pun intended.)
    Thanked by 1latebloomer13
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,281
    And, in looking up the url for the lilypnd link, I found this site in Czech:
    http://www.inadiutorium.xf.cz/

    (They have a link to MusicSacra on their home page!)

    They are using Lilypond to transcribe Gregorian Chant for Czech-language use. Pretty cool, although they are transcribing into stemless modern-note notation.

    I want to hope that there will be better support for Gregorian Chant in LilyPond's future, but it seems most of the people with the skills to make that happen have decided on Gregorio. Perhaps a translation engine is needed.
  • Ben YankeBen Yanke
    Posts: 3,113
    Someday, if I can find the time, I'd love to create a tool to convert gregorio scores into lilypond. It would be so handy, because gabc is so much faster than lilypond, at least for me. Someday...