I have made peace with the Ave Maria. It was there before me and will be after. It apparently means a great deal to many, so I have thrown in that towel to fight bigger battles.

One of the local churches - not mine, thank goodness - had a pastor, Fr. Joe. We referred to him as, "Broadway Joe." He sang everything, whether his part or not, and quite dramatically. Could have worn a Viking helmet convincingly. Always insisted on the Mass of Creation since he could sing the preface dialog from it. He belonged to a religious order and was finally transferred out of town, where I am sure he is dramatically still using the altar as a stage. Priests - you got to love them, since you can do little with them.

"More importantly, what to do?"

Be grateful that you never get to witness his singing it at a funeral (because you would sing it instead of him if you were there, right?).....

"but the Schubert was printed in black!!!" :)

I heard (a recording of) Sinatra's "I Did It My Way" for the first time during a homily. Made an excellent point and I will never forget it - too bad that recordings of that nature are forbidden during Mass. Oops. Ahhhhh the Saginaw days...

Ally: at least he's not asking to sing "Hail Mary, Gentle Woman".....

MJM, yeah it was scribbled doubtless using black well ink from an octopus. Just as likely as was the tribute poem, rife with rococo superlatives, about the glories of young maidenhood and comely female beauty to which Franzy set his ebb/flow setting. One has to credit Mr. Landry or Mr. Norbert for at least not using the setting as a parody for the devotional prayer. Give me Victoria*, or give me death!

*That would Tomas Luis' setting, not Queen Victoria or Victoria Principal; Wendy'd not appreciate that at all.

At least...she's been to Cantor 101.

She's the music director at her parish, so at least they have a professional doing this.

Everyone, back away from the thread.....no sudden moves....breathe normally through the nose to the diaphragm....once outside, don't look back inside....forget you were ever here....and say nothing more of this.

It's not a 30's parlor song it was on hit parade and was a big seller in the 1950's...it's copyright and out of print, so that tends to limit its use. The Ames Brothers accompanied by organ. Few of you have any idea how much Catholic music was in the mainstream as popular music, including this song, back then. Catholic performers like Bing Crosby put a face on Catholicism in this country that had a very positive effect on Catholics. As did Debbie Reynolds and Eddie Fisher....

Yes! A carosel tune- I thought that, too when I heard it!
Ok, so fine hire a singer to present a short program of devotional Cathoic pop from the 50's or any era at a wake or any type of reception. I have no issue with that. But treating the Mass like one's personal jukebox is another story.

Songs like this are another reminder that all was not well in sacred music land before the council.

You know, I can live with the video. It's a wedding and after all, it beats some of the secular songs I have heard at weddings.

I just had a childhood flashback!

Picture it: Parisville, Michigan. 1995ish. After the rosary (that was said every week before the 4:00 Mass) there was a man that would sing "Mother At Your Feet" by himself. It used to annoy the hell out of me because I wanted to play prelude music on the organ. Not quite a priest solo, but an odd situation for a Catholic church just the same...

I would suggest the SLJs, and a great deal of the 1960s/70s stuff was precisely an antidote to that kind of stuff. A lot of people complain that folk music replaced Gregorian Chant, and I have no doubt it did in some places. But the sense I get is that mostly it simply replaced an older style of folk music, and (in many ways) was either an improvement or (at least) no worse.

My impression, Adam, is that the SLJ's led a HEAVILY conservative movement, compared to what was going on musically just after the council. The saccharine devotional stuff was replaced by campfire tunes on mimeographed paper, led by incompetent student guitarists. My mother was one of those, in fact. THEN the SLJ's came along, saying it wasn't good enough to sing vaguely religious songs, led by someone without skill. They wanted scriptural texts, traditional (antiphon) form, and trained musicians. I think we tend to forget just how radicalized the music at Mass was for a time, and we forget the SLJ's and their movement were a conservative force - and, as you say, an improvement over what came immediately (and arguably long) before them. Glory and Praise was reactionary - going back to a hymnal!

Mind you, none of this is an apology for the SLJ's, Glory & Praise, or folk music in general. And rather less than related to Adam's overall point.

MaryAnn,
The pastor just wants that one. Not even the Bach/Gounod. I would love if they could choose, but the cantor (SSND on staff) and I have already approached him about this. Not everyone loves the Ave Maria, especially the Schubert, and it doesn't need to be there, and we could do something else, etc. But he insisted that it is a "perfect way to lift up our prayer after communion".

There are many other problems with music selection (the first 6 funerals we had with him were BNA, Toolan, Schubert, OEW...in that order every time...I was pretty ticked) which is why we approached him. Since he came, he has left me out of the music selection process for funerals, so I have NO idea how he presents my list to the families (with the last pastor, he would invite me in to meet with him and the family, and together we teamed up to present a better set of choices, not eliminating OEW but by suggesting hymns that were at least closer to the propers, good theology, etc). (Also, for another day, another post...he lowered my fees without telling me. Thankfully I know someone, and after an influential phone call he put them back. Gives you an idea though...)

I too was bothered by the fact that it was unaccompanied! And I love a cappella polyphony/chant/etc. However, that piece just strikes me as being totally weird (and possibly overdramatic, which is how I believe it would have been done...) if not accompanied. Something about the organist didn't have the right key...but I know this organist would have known to at least use the transposer knob (but let's please
not start on that) so I don't think it was a problem with the organist.

Does anyone have a suggestion for an SA Ave Maria that my funeral choir could work on? (Even if we just sing it as a prelude!! Also learning the SEP Introit as a prelude...as a start in an area I still have control over.) This choir is mostly ladies in their 70s/80s, but with 50-60 funerals a year, they are a very committed group.

Thanks for your support.

It may surprise people, but but in the 1950's people went to vocal recitals by students as well as professionals.

The Schubert art song that is now sung to the Ave text was a staple on these recitals and as such also appeared on TV shows, including Lawrence Welk.

TV networks had a responsibility to provide programming of quality to keep their licenses with the FCC. Howard Stern would have been pumping gas and wiping windshields, offending people getting gas with his jokes, because he sure would not have been in broadcasting.

"At one point in the Mass you will cleanse your thumbs and index fingers and from that moment on you will hold them together not touching anything because you will he holding the Body and Blood of Our Lord with those fingers."

Speaking of not changing a word, where is that in the Missal?

Ally, so sorry to hear about the pastor's odd rule. I hear ya!

Charles Giffen recently posted a lovely, and fairly simple SA Ave Maria here on this forum.

I'd look it up but I'm juggling a sick baby and supplying my other three boys and husband with backyard camping provisions.

@Gavin: Isn't that in the 1962 Missal?

@Ben Yanke: Thanks for pointing that out!

I don't believe that 1962 missal, good as it was, is legally binding on anyone outside the minority who are allowed to use it for worship. It is a similar situation to the rubrics followed by the Russian Old Believers, or Old Ritualists as they are sometimes called. In other words, its use is extraordinary, not the norm. For those of us who work in NO churches, the current missal is the law and the one we are required to follow. The practice of the Roman Rite is codified in it, as far as we are concerned.

Well, it does say "attention must be paid." Which means, as has been written extensively elsewhere, that Old Rite has something to say about the New Rite. In light of Herman Cardinal Neutic's claims regarding the whole of Vatican II, this suggests that the Old Rite has a great deal to say about the New Rite, and should be our first metric in places of ambiguity or questions of preference.

Not our only metric, mind, but the first, and only in places of ambiguity or regarding questions of preference.

I dunno, the rubrics of the OF seem pretty clear to me. Don't mistake "complicated, and so requiring more instruction" with "provided more instruction, and so thus was more clear."

And most of the abuses (so-called) and examples of bad taste you can find in modern liturgy are not specifically prohibited by any missal or its rubrics. It just doesn't occur to any GIRM writing committee member to include, "No puppets," or "In case it isn't clear, you're supposed to say the words in this book, not some words you just made up yourself."

Much like, when we were children left in the house for the first time, none of our parents specifically said, "By the way- do not cut the sofa in half with a chainsaw." It shouldn't even occur to you to do it, and if by chance the idea comes up, you should have enough sense to know it's a bad idea.

Here's the trouble: Liturgists have been sociopathic children cutting up sofas for thirty years. (This explains all the fluff.)

Turing to the 1962 Missal is an imperfect means to mature today's broken sense of worship, of faith, of proper Christian piety such that the Novus Ordo may be finally implemented correctly.

It's not a magic perfect book, to use Mr. Yanke's turn of phrase. It's more like a makeshift splint.

That's a good way to describe it, Protasius.

Liturgist....the problem is that they are untrained and uncommitted. Liturgists were priests who were trained and uncommitted.

Untrained liturgists and music directors get bored easily and change, change and change things long before the people accept them, and do not understand what training would have taught them.

The Catholic church is all about tradition.

Do you know what you call Catholics who are against tradition?

Protestants.

Liturgists and music directors want to make the liturgy interesting. Being untrained and uncommitted they have no understanding or appreciation for the liturgy or music and you get absolute s!@# as a result.

"Let's create a desert for Lent and then a waterfall and pool of water for Easter!"

That stuff's for kiddies, not adults.

Of course, there is a certain amount of intelligence required. A psych person in one diocese is fond of reminding that the chancery, from the bishop on done, is home to some of the lowest IQ's in the church.