Comparison of Hymnals: St. Michael, Vatican II, Worship IV, Adoremus, etc.
  • Francesca
    Posts: 51
    I forgot to say that, unfortunately, 'Yahweh, I know you are near' is still alive and well under 'God, I know you are near.'. Not, 'Jesus, I know....' which would scan better. You didn't really think one of those money-makers would be dropped for one word, did you?

    As one of my Schola men blurted out when I ask what was wrong with the theology in a Schutte song we're having to sing for First Holy Communions (because it was promoted by a national Christian educators' event and therefore our ed staff came back juiced by the skillful arrangement of it), 'There's no Jesus anywhere!'.

    Someone please explain to me why the Church is still promoting Schutte, considering his background and the dated quality of the songs. Or, is that where the money is going from all those throw-away, subscription Missals, to promote this kind of music at such events?

    It's going to take a lot of careful work on my part to even begin to explain why the chosen song is no good musically or theologically, and why we shouldn't be promoting Mr. Schutte - not after they've heard a 50 voice kids' choir and the work of a skillful arranger making this tune tug at their heartstrings.
  • ContraBombarde
    Posts: 471
    @Francesca, you hit it right on the spot! Seminarians, I am near a minor and major seminary, and guess what, they are exposed to all that pop music, and like it.

    So folks, let's face it, if you think for a minute, we are going to be going back to gregorian masses, and EF,,,, forget it. Cherish every opportunity that you have, every good priest that allows you to do the EF and OF in gregorian, chant, English or Latin. Cherish the opportunities that you have with good quality Scholas, and wonderful "liturgically correct" music. It's not going to be making a come back in the near future. I can guarantee you this!

    As I explained in one of my previous posts, I have several masses on Sunday, and one of them is that contemporary music mass, the one where we are expected to do "that pop music", and one day after the mass, the priest celebrating came up to talk to me, as he usually does. He is one of the faculty and higher ups, in the Seminary near by, a well respected and very educated priest, and I asked him. Father, what do you think about this music, (knowing in my heart I was hoping to get an answer qualifying the fact, that it's not appropriate for mass), and his response floored me, and left me quite depressed and shocked! He said, Michael, this music you do is great! We do it at the Seminary too, and love it. I said, but Father, the people hardly sing, heck, I can barely belt out any of these Hillsongs pieces, the congregation can't really participate. His next comment nearly gave me a heart attack. He said, "but it's really nice music and even if they don't participate, they can just listen to great music. You're doing a great job."

    I was so disappointed, and felt very hurt. Here I thought doing liturgical music, would certainly be better than all the pop stuff, at a Seminary level, but they are exposed to it, and well, guess what, if they are instructing them in that music, you might as well forget it. Take comfort in the small successes that you all have, the opportunities that you have to bring in some quality music, and be a peace with Christ.

    OCP, GIA, and WLP all hold dominance in the Church business, and have plenty more money to spend to make sure that we are dependant!

    If you need an example of this, look at the oil/gas industry. Many years ago, an electric car was produced which people loved, worked great. Than a battery was produced which had an exceptional battery life. What happened? The oil industry bought the rights to the battery, and quashed it's existance. This way we depend on only oil.

    Case closed. Good luck and enjoy your successes! Take comfort in that fact that, you will touch the lives of many who desire a clean liturgy, and when your able to bring that forth, Amen and God Bless! Otherwise, let's all keep praying a little harder, as the tunnel is quite dark and the light appears light year away!
  • ContraBombarde
    Posts: 471
    On a side note, to the above, if you haven't read other posts I have written, I do have to do a contemporary mass; "I have to put food on the table for my 3 little ones" sometimes we have to do things we aren't very happy about, otherwise, we wouldn't have a job. Just remember, it's like doing a penance, we must all do it from time to time. :o(

  • ScottKChicago
    Posts: 349
    The Hymnal 1940 is in print and available through Cokesbury.com
  • Francesca
    Posts: 51
    I'm so sorry to hear that, Michael. It isn't funny when the sea is in the boat, instead of the boat being in the sea.

    Thanks, ScottK, for that info.
    Thanked by 1SanAntonioCath
  • ContraBombarde
    Posts: 471
    It is disheartening.... As one poster on here remarked, sometimes you just have to sigh, not worry about it, and you won't have heart ache and aggravation. A lot of very good musicians have started to do this. I have many a friend and colleague that have just thrown the towel in, and just count the days till retirement.

    When a doctor trys to cure a problem, he/she doesn't attack just the symptoms, but trys to attack the core of the problem. You can't just cure a few symptoms, and hope that the cancer is cured.

    For any of us to exact change to a traditional, liturgically correct environment, it has to start with the foundation of things, and that is the seminaries. If you can get good solid instruction in music/liturgy to the new future priests, it will be the way to bring about positive change, to that environment we desire. Otherwise forget it. You'll get one good priest with liturgical savy sense, and two years later, could end up with a charismatic pop culture priest, that would not hear of you using gregorian chant.

    Nonetheless, I am happy to see people like Jeff O, as well as few others, trying to bring about a positive liturgical to the music. It definitely does help, even if it is on a smaller level for now, it still makes a difference.

    Peace!
    Thanked by 1Ragueneau
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,212
    I don't expect that the change over the next few years is going to come from the top down. I would expect that seminaries are mostly run by priests 55-70 years of age; born in 1942-57, ordained around 1967-82; they're part of the postwar Baby Boom generation. Of course they identify with the concerns and the liturgical styles of the 1970s and 1980s.

    The younger "John Paul II generation" of priests who want sacred music with a connection to the Church's heritage are out in parishes. A few of them are off in higher studies so that some day they can step up to the task of running the seminaries in turn.
  • Claire H
    Posts: 370
    I see at least a few posters have mentioned seminary formation (theologically and musically). To my knowledge, St. Mary of the Lake Seminary in Mundelein, IL has made some excellent strides in sacred music over the past 5-10 years. For example, they have the "Mundelein Psalter" in their pews and use it regularly. I've spoken with seminarians from there who've indicated that a lot of "cleaning up" has gone on in liturgy and music. And some of the new young priests I've met/observed recently give me real hope!
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen SanAntonioCath
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    A very, very VERY thoughtful review of the Vatican II Hymnal is here:

    http://thecatholicleague.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/vatican-ii-hymnal-book-review.html
    Thanked by 3ContraBombarde DanielC SanAntonioCath
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    Wow, what a great review! You definitely ought to be proud.
    Thanked by 1Ragueneau
  • ContraBombarde
    Posts: 471
    I have been going through the Vatican II hymnal, and have to say, I am very impressed with it. I am keeping my fingers crossed that my pastoral team will make a good selection.

    You guys have done a very good job with that hymnal. Anyone who has an opportunity to purchase this hymnal for their church, will be on a good path to a cleaner liturgy.

    My fingers are crossed!
    Thanked by 1Ragueneau
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    T H A N
  • SanAntonioCath
    Posts: 77
    Daniel, we are looking forward to what you have to say about Summit.
  • DanielCDanielC
    Posts: 37
    Please note:

    The Blog Post: Comparison of Catholic Hymnals by Daniel Craig has been updated.

    It now includes reviews of the Summit Choirbook (published by the Dominican Nuns of Summit, New Jersey: 1983) and the Catholic Hymn Book (published by Gracewing and compiled at the London Oratory: 1998 and 2006).


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    Please follow this link to learn more.
    Thanked by 1Ragueneau
  • JennyH
    Posts: 106
    thank you so much for this
  • DanielCDanielC
    Posts: 37
    You're very welcome!! I'm glad to do it.
    Thanked by 1SanAntonioCath
  • SanAntonioCath
    Posts: 77
    Daniel, this is a nice resource for our liturgical committee. Kudos.
    Thanked by 1DanielC
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    What about the Westminster Hymnal?

    Could/should that be added?
  • DanielCDanielC
    Posts: 37
    That's another one I haven't heard of... Would you be able to get me a copy?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Is there not a very useful Mass setting in Spanish in the St Michael?
  • DanielCDanielC
    Posts: 37
    Hello!

    I actually did not not focus on the Spanish, just mostly English and Latin. Someone else has my copy now too, so I'm afraid I can't answer.

    Sorry about that...
  • bcb
    Posts: 36
    Thanks for the great reviews! Any chance you'll also cover the new Journeysongs? My parish currently has that, and we're trying decide between getting the new edition or switching to St. Michael's.
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 707
    I'm just a lowly choir member and cantor but I think of all the hymnals listed the Vatican II hymnal is about the best but even in this hymnal I noticed there are only a handful of Marian hymns and apart from hymns that encompass all the saints, there are no hymns to individual saints, like St. Joseph or St. Patrick. When I look back through hymnals such as St. Basil, The Sunday School Hymnal and others there are many hymns of that kind in addition to the many hymns to the Blessed Sacrament and Sacred Heart. I think the article mentions that the Vatican II hymns are all public domain; does this mean that those older hymns to Mary and the Saints are not public domain yet?
  • DanielCDanielC
    Posts: 37
    bcb...
    I was only reviewing the more traditional hymnals, and Journeysongs does not seem to be very traditional at all. I would recommend the switch to either St. Michael's or the Vatican II Hymnal (I personally think that the Vatican II Hymnal is better).

    Don9of11...
    I agree with you that the Vatican II Hymnal is probably the best out there right now. I would say that because it is primarily a Sunday Missal, there would rarely be a need to focus on specific saints.

    Another comment on the Vatican II Hymnal:
    This link is really good and quite funny... Please look it up!
    http://www.ipadre.net/2012/11/goodbye-ocp/

    Thank you!
    Thanked by 3Gavin ryand Paul_Onnonhoaraton
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