Comparison of Hymnals: St. Michael, Vatican II, Worship IV, Adoremus, etc.
  • This is an exciting time for church musicians like myself attending Catholic colleges and waiting to go "into the world" and make a difference. More Catholic pew books are available than ever before. I will begin by a quick overview of each, followed by a more detailed exploration. All the major books (except the Tietze and Worship IV) have the Mass Ordinary in Latin/English and ICEL setting, so I will not mention this each time:

    1. Adoremus Hymnal: First "traditional" hymnal to be published (I was six years old when it came out); 149 hymn tunes (the newest edition has a few more); contains seven Gregorian chant Masses and four English chant Masses (MR3); all hymn tunes are beautiful and traditional; lacks readings, responsorial psalms, propers.

    2. Vatican II Hymnal: Most "complete" hymnal to appear; 131 hymn tunes (all of them beautiful and traditional); complete Readings for all Sundays and major feasts (liturgical years ABC); complete Mass propers with Latin incipit from Roman Gradual; easy-to-follow format requires minimal page turning; readings embedded with optional propers—Gradual/Responsorial and Gregorian Alleluia/Gospel Acclamation; 100+ pages of Mass settings in English/Latin by Ostrowski, Esguerra, Weber, Rice, Ford, Simms, and Allen as well as eight full Gregorian Masses and twenty-five additional chant settings; beautiful line art (only hymnal to have this); numerous other features, including ten settings of the sprinkling rite and text of the Extraordinary form.

    3. St. Michael Hymnal: "Transitional" hymnal; 255 hymn tunes (most are traditional, some are secular, others are Spanish); includes musical settings of the entrance antiphons by Richard Rice; ten English Masses and seven Gregorian Masses; includes Gospel acclamations; lacks responsorial psalms, readings, Mass propers; currently lacks organ accompaniment edition.

    4. Lumen Christi Missal: "Sing the Mass" in Gregorian chant; 1100 pages; three Mass settings by Bartlett and several Gregorian Masses, complete Readings for all Sundays and major feasts (liturgical years ABC); uses square notation for entire book; includes antiphons that can be sung by congregation and daily responsorial psalms; includes texts of spoken propers for Sundays and major feasts; lacks daily readings; currently no organ accompaniments provided.

    5. Introit Hymns for the Church Year: 51 hymn tunes; a different hymn text (Introit) created for each Sunday and major feast.

    6. Worship IV: Numerous songs included (everything from Zimbabwean tunes to traditional hymns); 1400+ pages; complete Readings for all Sundays and major feasts (liturgical years ABC); Gelineau & Guimont psalmody; very little Gregorian chant; many song texts with troubling lyrics; no Mass propers of any kind included.


  • imageAdoremus Hymnal
    Ignatius Press

    This contains 149 Hymn tunes (Adoremus hymn tunes index), all of them traditional and beautiful. I believe the new edition also includes some additional hymns and the Latin Sequences. The new edition of Adoremus includes four new Mass settings (one each by Weber, Buchholz, Rice, and Haynes). It also has a "Missa Simplex," Mass I, Mass VIII, Mass IX, Mass XI, Mass XVII, and the Requiem Mass.

    The Adoremus hymnal first appeared when I was six years old. When it appeared, it was basically the only hymnal available that contained no "sacro-pop," so it needs to be viewed with this fact in mind.

    Potential flaws: The website for this book is the least advanced of any of the major hymnals. The typesetting does not compare to the Lumen Christi Missal, Vatican II Hymnal, or St. Michael's Hymnal (here is a sample page). Extremely limited content: no psalms, no readings, very few Gospel acclamations and settings of the Mystery of Faith, very few Mass settings, etc.

    imageVatican II Hymnal
    Corpus Christi Watershed

    This beautifully typeset book includes 131 hymn tunes (Vatican II index), organized in a very user friendly fashion. The first section gives numerous carefully chosen hymns for entrance and recessional. The second section gives more Communion hymns than I have ever seen in a Catholic hymnal, and the third section contains additional Communion hymns assigned by liturgical season (which can also sometimes be used for entrance/recessional). None of the sections repeat any hymn texts. The book also lays out the hymns very cleanly, and employs a single numbering system throughout, which congregations will appreciate.

    Musical settings of the Mass (Roman Missal, 3rd Edition) are included in English: four complete Masses by Jeff Ostrowski, two Masses by Aristotle Esguerra, two Masses by Richard Rice, a Mass by Fr. Samuel Weber with numerous alternative movements, Mass settings by Bruce Ford, and a Mass by L. Columbkille Simms. Latin settings are also included: a setting by Kevin Allen, Gregorian Mass I, Mass VIII, Mass IX, Mass X, Mass XI, Mass XII, Mass XIII, Mass XVII, plus more than 25 additional selections (like Kyrie IV, Sanctus II, Agnus Dei, IV, etc.).

    More importantly, this hymnal contains all the readings for years ABC (Sundays and major feasts) as well as all the Mass propers. Latin incipits allow the congregation to follow whether the propers are sung in Latin or English. The complete sung propers are used, so the choir can sing from Simple English Propers or Graduale and congregation can follow along with ease. This is the only hymnal I have seen that prints all the graduals in addition to the responsorial psalms and all the gregorian alleluias in addition to the gospel acclamations. The layout of the Mass ordinary in Latin/English is superb and clear. The line art is spectacular.

    As a college student who is very much aware of iPads, iPhones, iPods, etc. what I really love about the Vatican II Hymnal is that all the organist scores, choir scores, practice videos, MP3 recordings, and so forth are provided on the website free of charge. For instance, I notice that the Adoremus hymnal even charges $6.00 for the accompaniment to the Mass by Fr. Haynes (through the St. John Cantius web store). I can tell you that these things are off-putting to my generation, and I feel that the Vatican II Hymnal has caught the zeitgeist by making every single harmonization for the Vatican II Hymnal available for free. The organist editions for all the Masses and hymns are also being sold in bound editions for obscenely low prices; e.g. the 196-page keyboard accompaniment for the hymns is less than $7.00 (softcover 8.5x11).

    The scope of this review does not allow me to address all the other "add-ons" included in the Vatican II Hymnal, like six settings of the "Asperges me," five settings of the "Vidi Aquam," the ordinary in Latin/English of the Extraordinary form (true to Summorum Pontificum), the complete ICEL setting with its Latin counterparts, Esguerra's additional psalter, Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament, and so on. Suffice it say that this hymnal is absolutely packed with good stuff, and the binding seems incredibly durable.

    Potential flaws: Some may question why three metrical Masses were included, as the other 100+pages are all Gregorian chant inspired. Some may desire the Eucharistic Prayers of Reconciliation (the Vatican II Hymnal only included the four most commonly used Eucharistic prayers in Latin/English). Occasionally, a less known tune is given in one of the hymns (in an attempt to "educate" according to my reading of the author's Preface) and the more common tune is given as an "alternate." Some might prefer that the order be reversed.

    imageSt. Michael Hymnal
    Schafer/O'connor

    Beautifully typeset, this hymnal includes 255 hymn tunes (St. Michael index). Many of the hymn tunes are traditional and beautiful, while others employ a secular style. The fourth edition of St. Michael has attempted to purge many tunes that use a secular style (see this list), but some examples of questionable entries still remain, such as BALM IN GILEAD. The fourth edition includes a Mass by Richard Rice, four Masses by hymnal editor Brother Michael O'Connor, two Masses by James MacGregor, and four other Masses. A new edition to the fourth edition are musical settings of the entrance antiphons composed and harmonized by Richard Rice. The fourth edition seems to have added a whole bunch of Spanish hymns and also many hymns I have not heard before (link). I am not really sure about the admixture of Spanish hymns in an English hymnal as it seems to be "throwing a bone" to Spanish-speakers, while not really giving them anything substantive or, frankly, useful over the course of each liturgical year.

    Potential flaws: In general, this is a very good hymnal because there is no shortage of hymns and they keep the traditional language (just like the Vatican II Hymnal and the Adoremus). However, the "ethos" of Catholic worship seems lacking. In other words, the emphasis is almost entirely on hymns. For the Catholic Mass, the emphasis should be on the Mass itself: graduals, communions, responsorial psalms, antiphons, readings, and so forth that actually make up the Mass. The advice of Pope Pius X is worth heeding: "Do not pray at Mass—pray the Mass!" If the Mass were a protestant service, the St. Michael hymnal would be perfect. Also, the organization of hymns in this book could be improved.
  • imageLumen Christi Missal
    Illuminare Publications

    The entire book is in Gregorian chant notation, which shows just how far the chant movement has come in America. This is a beautiful book that will propel the chant movement forward. The typesetting is excellent, and the settings are beautiful. The resources for this will be included online once they are completed.

    This is basically a Sunday Missal—the readings for daily Mass are not included—which also includes the responsorial psalms for daily Masses. No hymns are included, because the emphasis is on singing the propers. Spoken propers are included, but no graduals, alleluia verses, etc. The translations do not seem to match the Simple English Propers. The Revised Grail was chosen as the psalm translation, which gives continuity with the Divine Office. Indeed, this book seems destined for monastic use, owing to its emphasis on the unaccompanied chanting of psalms. When the Mass is sung, the Revised Grail is allowed, but it will not appear in Lectionaries until the Lectionary itself is revised. Currently, there are no plans to revise the Lectionary. The Lumen Christi Missal is currently in a "testing" stage before production, and I would urge the editors to consider using the current Lectionary translation. Those of us who attend daily Mass on campus would appreciate being able to read the same translation at a spoken Mass.

    Potential flaws: "Seeing is believing," but I worry about an 1100 page book in terms of fitting in the majority of pew holders. Perhaps they are using very thin pages. Currently, the book is not complete, as it lacks most of the choir scores and all organ accompaniments, but these may be added at a later date.

    imageIntroit Hymns for the Church Year
    Christoph Tietze

    This collection has a very noble aim as it seeks to allow congregations to join in singing the proper Introit each Sunday. It employs a total of 51 hymn tunes (Tietze index), all of them traditional and beautiful. The Latin incipit is included for each. It covers the Sundays of the entire church year and all major feasts (even those that do not always occur on Sunday, like the Nativity of St. John the Baptist). The typesetting is beautiful and clear. The pew edition includes SATB chords, which organists will appreciate.

    Potential flaws: The only major drawback to this otherwise amazing work is the amateurish poetry of the hymn texts, which to my ear is quite forced at times. I understand it must be difficult to "cram" the psalter into metrical hymns, but the rhymes often strike me as uninspired and artificial:

      Let God arise and scatter those / Who scorn his law, his ways oppose.
        As fire melts wax and smoke recedes, / They perish when God's face they see.

      But let the righteous shout with glee, / Let them exult exceedingly.
        Let your melodious music ring; / O praise the Lord and dance and sing!

      God helps the orphans, widows, lone; / He gives the desolate a home.
        Then prisoners are truly free; / He leads them to prosperity.


    imageWorship IV
    GIA Publications

    When I received my copy of Worship IV, I was totally floored: touted as a completely new edition, this book is practically the same as the edition I have from 1986 (five years before I was born). The fonts are exactly the same. The titles and layout are practically identical.

    More importantly, the same trendy songs they included in the 1980's—"The Summons" by John Bell; "Lord of the Dance" by Sydney Carter; "Gather us in" by Marty Haugen; and so forth—are still there! It looks like they didn't even bother to re-typeset most of these since 1986, for instance "Help us accept each other" has not changed. The book could be vastly improved by getting rid of 90% of the songs, and reverting to more authentic (hierarchical) language in those remaining, just as in the Adoremus, Vatican II, and St. Michael Hymnals. Examples of songs that have been added since 1986 would be "God has chosen me" by Bernadette Farrell; "Uyai Mose" by Alexander Gondo; and "If you believe and I believe" by Herman Steumpfle.

    The poetry in most of these is just awful:

      You are called to set the table, / Blessing bread as Jesus blessed,
      Then to come with thirst and hunger, / Needing care like all the rest.
      Christ be known in all our sharing, / Feeding all with signs of love.


    GIA needs to realize that my generation will never accept these kinds of texts.

    The only real positive thing about this book is its inclusion of the Sunday readings. However, it includes no Mass propers of any kind, which is unbelievable considering the current movement for the propers. Even companies like OCP will normally include at least the spoken propers for Introit and Communion. GIA's choice is hard to understand, except in the context of their company promoting the replacement of Mass propers with songs.

    Conclusion

    Again, these are exciting times for those of us who love liturgy and sacred music. The wealth of publications is encouraging. Perhaps the pace of renewal is not as fast as some of us would like, but let us remember that everything happens according to the designs of our Lord Jesus Christ at the precise pace He wishes.




    imageDaniel Craig, 21, is a sophomore at Franciscan University of Steubenville. Currently pursuing a degree in accounting, Daniel can be reached via E-mail. Daniel's interests include the Catholic Liturgy, singing Gregorian chant, and playing percussion. His family is associated with the Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity.

  • While I think that the Vatican II hymnal is probably the best of the group, I do wish that they would have included additional Lenten hymns. Much to my dismay, O Sun of Justice was missing. This was a huge caveat for me, as I wondered why they chose to exclude this beautiful hymn from the book.

    I do wish that Lumen Christi would have some sort of a "happy medium" between the square notations and the modern notations.
  • Heath
    Posts: 966
    Daniel, a nice summary, thanks!
    Thanked by 1DanielC
  • I forgot to add that it was a good review, Daniel.
    Thanked by 1DanielC
  • Good review. I, too, was extremely disenchanted (no pun intended) with GIA Worship IV. You are correct that it is "old wine in new wine skins."
    Thanked by 1DanielC
  • Worship IV is a terrible disappointment, indeed. It seems to me that solid, liturgical theology went out the door. I would rather go back to Worship II.
  • JennyH
    Posts: 106
    I would be interested to know how many people regularly use the Tietze Hymn-Introits at Mass.
  • I use them quite a bit; a cursory review of worship aids posted on websites reveals that quite a few major cathedrals use them a lot too.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNRZU6Td-Cw

    I am posting something that appeared on Chant Cafe here:

    ARTICLE

    This clearly shows that the Introit & an entrance Hymn can be sung at the beginning of Mass. As Daniel Craig noted (above), the Vatican II Hymnal includes numerous hymns AND as well as the complete texts of the Propers in English with Latin incipit.

    Many musicians would get in a lot of trouble with congregations/employer if they immediately "took away" the Entrance Hymn and "replaced it" with the Proper. As we know, in reality, the Hymn should not be replacing the Proper on a regular basis, but that has become standard practice.

    Perhaps one way around this would be to sing the Entrance Hymn AND THEN sing the Introit while the priest incenses the altar until the congregation gets "used to" the Introit.

    It seems to me that Laszlo Dobszay suggested a similar practice (except he said to sing the Hymn before Mass starts):

    Laszlo Dobszay on the Mass Propers

    Daniel, would you be open to sending me the raw code of your article so I can post on CCW blog?
  • Humph! No one has mentioned the Hymnal 1940!
    Now that the Ordinariate of the Chair of St Peter is a reality, this is, I rather think, a hymnal that is unquestionably Catholic, it now being the Hymnal of Anglican Use Catholics. Of course, we of the ordinariate know full well that there are some, um, unfortunate items contained between its covers, but, we know what they are and avoid them. Otherwise, it is quite a Catholic hymnal with nearly impeccable contents and very, very little dross. It also has numerous psalms and canticles in the back set to a generous variety of Anglican chants, which many are incorporating into their repertories.I want to stress yet again that the 1940 IS now a Catholic book, used by the Anglican Ordinariate, and could be used, as well, by others.

    Too, don't give short shrift to The Catholic Hymnbook (English), published by Grace Wing. Fine repertory. No dross.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,986
    My congregation actually hears quite a few hymns from The Hymnal, 1940. They just don't know where the hymns came from. The 1940 is one of the best hymnals of all time.
    Thanked by 2Blaise hilluminar
  • I plan to do a similar comparison between the upcoming G I A bilingual hymnal and the revised OCP Flor y Canto book. Inasmuch as I reviewed the OCP sample CD, I am curious about the complete book.
  • The only major drawback to this otherwise amazing work is the amateurish poetry of the hymn texts


    Sadly, I agree about the insipid quality of the texts. In his defense, however, I don't think Tietze is a native born English speaker; I think he was born in Germany.
  • Bravo, Jackson. In my diocese, several of us traditionally-minded musicians are Anglican converts (from before the Ordinariate; and one Anglican who is in the sights of a powerfully-praying octogenarian priest :-), and we all use The Hymnal 1940 regularly, both for the harmonizations and for good hymns unknown in Catholic circles.

    At our diocesan evangelism conference this past weekend, I chose "Christ for the world we sing" as the recessional after Mass (which is sung to "Italian Hynn" aka "Moscow" in the 1940), and the attendees belted it out as if they had known it all their lives. A few of the musicians thought that perhaps I had written the text just for the conference! (I just did the harmonization, which melds what I think are the best parts of the 1940 harmonization and the 'standard' Catholic one).

    Christ for the world we sing

    There are just so many lovely hymns there. With it being Lent, I am particularly partial to "With broken heart and contrite sigh" to the Thomas Campion tune Babylon's Streams.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Many thanks, PC -
    Many, of course, know of and use the 1940... but for those who aren't aware or are timid about it, I thought I should toss it in here.
    We sang 'Babylon's Streams' as a communion hymn just this past Sunday at Our Lady of Walsingham.
    I know that quite a few Catholic choirmasters avail themselves of it; I've even heard of a Catholic church here and there which has it in the pews!

    P.S. - Are you the same lady who told me a while back on this forum that your priest was fond of saying to you that 'you can take the girl out of Anglicanism but not the Anglicanism out of the girl'? If so, I think that that is priceless and have quoted you numerous times.

    P.P.S. - Many thanks also to Daniel Craig for his reviews. It reinforces what I have heard from others here about Worship IV (I even got raked over the coals on PT blog by a GIA editorial nabob for quoting others while not actually having seen it myself). I have not yet gotten a copy of The Vatican II Hymnal, but definitely intend to remedy that deficiency.

    And, of course it's an English book which many here have, but I want really to advertise The Catholic Hymnbook, published by Gracewing, for those who may be unaware of it. For a Catholic hymnal, it is in a class with the 1940. But for a very few rather purple Marian songs, it is nearly impeccable.

    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • JennyH
    Posts: 106
    MJO, if you like the 1940, try the New English Hymnal. :) But what about the Catholic Truth Society? Didn't they also produce a Catholic hymn book? I think I looked into getting it, but it was over $50.00.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I recently substituted at a Catholic church that had Worship IV in the pews, and the director had a copy of Vatican II in his office. I found Worship IV suffering many of the usual problems of GIA's hymnals. I just glanced at VII, but what I saw seriously impressed me in the quality of printing. That book looks like a tank.

    I did, however, find both books alarmingly heavy. The protestant hymnals are always light and pleasant, but lifting either of the mentioned hymnals was a task. For what it's worth.

    May I also add: a major point against the VII for me from the beginning was the cover art. I just found it tacky and busy. Seeing the actual product (and realizing it was redesigned to avoid such complaints), it was much better, to my taste, than I predicted. Though I still found it on the gaudy side, especially compared to GIA's fine products. Though it is what's on the inside that matters.
  • Speaking of the cover of the Vatican II Hymnal -- JMO, if you're reading -- the title *really* needs to be manually kerned (this applies to the spine as well). As it stands, the first A is scrunched up too close to the big V, then there's a yawning abyss between the I and the C, then the second A comes up too close on the C. The two I's in the Roman numeral look so far apart that there must be a whole space between them (and that little design that sits on top of them doesn't help matters either, since it make them look like columns or something instead of a numeral). Then in "HYMNAL" the Y is too close to the H and the A is too close to the N. A little practice with this kerning game wouldn't hurt. ;-)
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    If the V2 looked very bulky, you may have been looking at a pre-publication review copy.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Dear Gavin,

    You probably saw the draft copy. The final copy has super high-quality, opaque, beautiful, THIN pages:

    image

    image
  • Claire H
    Posts: 370
    JMO, the quality of your work (even in photographs) is always striking!
    Thanked by 1Ragueneau
  • JennyH
    Posts: 106
    (ahem) ... so nobody has more info about the Catholic Truth Society Hymnal? How can I get a copy?
  • To JMO-

    I would be happy to send you the article's code to post on the CCWatershed blog.
    (I do ask to retain editing rights, though)

    Please email me at the link in my bio above, and I will email you with the code.

    - Dan
    Thanked by 1Ragueneau
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Daniel, not a problem at all. Expect an E-mail from me.
  • BachLover2BachLover2
    Posts: 330
    Bravo, Jackson. In my diocese, several of us traditionally-minded musicians are Anglican converts (from before the Ordinariate; and one Anglican who is in the sights of a powerfully-praying octogenarian priest :-), and we all use The Hymnal 1940 regularly, both for the harmonizations and for good hymns unknown in Catholic circles.


    I find it interesting that we are speaking of the 1940 but not the 1982, nor the New English Hymnal, nor Hymns Ancient and Modern, nor Theodore Marier's 'Psalms, Hymns, and Spiritual Canticles', nor the the Catholic Hymn Book (published by Gracewing). Is there something 'magical' about the 1940 I am missing here? :)
    Thanked by 1francis
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,199
    Quite simply, The Hymnal 1940 is one of the greatest hymnals (if not the greatest hymnal) of all time for English speaking Christians generally - and Anglicans and English-speaking Catholics, particularly.

    Even in the early days post Vatican II, with a dearth of vernacular hymnody, Catholic hymnals made extensive borrowings from the 1940, at least until folksongs and the like infected Catholic musical culture.

    While there are commendable additions that appear in The Hymnal 1982, the sad thing is that the 1982 also has unfortunate omissions as well as questionable addtions that render it (to the minds of many) as inferior to the 1940.

    While one may debate whether a hymnal should include extra "bells and whistles" in the form of "worship aids" and the like, the fact remains that The Hymnal 1940 represents a treasure and ideal for its hymns and service music. Of course, those extra "bells and whistles" are, for the Anglican, properly contained in the Book of Common Prayer (or Book of Divine Worship in the Anglican Ordinariate).
    Thanked by 2benedictgal francis
  • DanielCDanielC
    Posts: 37
    Regarding the Anglican hymnals: 1942, 1982, New English, Hymns Ancient and Modern, etc.
    I have attended and served the Mass of the Anglican Usage many times, and many of the hymns can certainly be beautiful; but I was only interested in researching and reviewing expressly Catholic hymnals for this article.
    - Dan
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,199
    I understand, Daniel. It's just that with the new Anglican Ordinariate, the use of the 1940 becomes relevant to many Catholics of the Anglican Use.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • DanielC -
    '... only interested in... expressly Catholic hymnals.'

    I reassert, with only a very little tongue in cheek, that owing to its use in the Roman Catholic Ordinariate of the Chair of St Peter, The Hymnal 1940 IS 'expressly Catholic', as is (will ironies ever end?) the language of Thomas Cranmer.

    I do, though, understand the purpose and presuppositions of your investigation. That is why I recommended as highly as possible The Catholic Hymnbook, offered by the English publisher, Gracewing, and familiar to many on this forum. With but a trifling few minuses, it is far and away superior to any expressly Catholic hymnal offered on this side of the pond. I hope that you add it to your survey.
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 798
    Mr. Osborn, I am interested in The Hymnal. I believe that this is a case where such mutual enrichment between the Anglican-Use Rite and the Ordinary Form would really come into play. Having been to Mass at Our Lady of Walsingham, I was greatly impressed and enthralled with the music. It certainly deepened the spirituality and the sacredness of the Mass.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Benedictgal -
    Many thanks for your comment. When were you at Walsingham? It's too bad we did not get to meet. Were you there before or after our wondrous renovations of the parish hall, new classrooms, cloister, an outdoor shrine which is a half-scale copy of the remaining arch of the mediaeval Walsingham shrine, rosary walk and fountain, etc? If you haven't seen these, you might want to visit us on the web.

    Needless to say, we are immeasurably thankful and glad over the ordinariate. You would have felt that you really were at heaven's gates at Msgr Steenson's installation at Houston's co-cathedral. Never was Parry's 'I was glad' sung with such joy. If you wish to send me your address, I shall try to find an extra copy of the installation service folder and send it to you.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • DanielCDanielC
    Posts: 37
    By the way, my article was recently published on the CCW Blog:

    http://www.ccwatershed.org/blog/2012/mar/1/roman-missal-third-edition-3rd-mass-accompaniment/

    - Dan
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Daniel, if you wanted to add Theodore Marier's work, several folks on the forum have forwarded the PDF's of this book. If you (or anyone else) wants these 500+ pages of organ accompaniments, post here. However, I assume you were only reviewing books currently in print. The Marier book CANNOT be bought. I just spent 2 hours talking to someone who worked with Ted for 20 years, and they assured me of this fact.
    Thanked by 1DanielC
  • JennyH
    Posts: 106
    The Gracewing was the hymn book I mentioned above. I confused the CTS with the Brompton Oratory. Does anyone know how to obtain a copy? Gracewing says the organ accompaniment edition may not be available until May. It is being reprinted.
  • DanielCDanielC
    Posts: 37
    imageThe Catholic Hymn Book, published by Gracewing and compiled at the London Oratory, was published in 1998 (reprinted in 2006).

    The book contains numerous hymns. All of them are beautiful, traditional, and Catholic, with a few minor exceptions like "Amazing Grace." The book lacks the readings, responsorial psalms, etc. However, 3-4 Mass settings are included (Gregorian Mass VIII, XI, and a few others). Some common Latin hymns are included like the Te Deum and the Te Lucis Ante Terminum. The book does not have the ICEL chants or the new translation since it was published prior to 2011. As a book of hymns, it is a very good compilation, just like the St. Michael Hymnal. However, the Catholic liturgy is more than just hymns.

    For my part, the "fatal flaw" of the book is the "English" way of typesetting: the words are not placed under the notes. I thought the reason this was done was to encourage congregational SATB singing. However, the pew book does not have SATB settings. I find their method inexplicable.

    Pew book from the Catholic Hymn Book.

    Organ accompaniments from the Catholic Hymn Book.

    Index of Hymns from the Catholic Hymn Book.
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    JMO,

    How does one go about getting the pdf files of the Marier? I worked with this book during the time I was in Worcester, MA back in the late 90's. I always thought it would be reprinted!
    Thanked by 1Ragueneau
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Dear redsox1,

    I simply posted on the forum, and four people wrote to me offering the PDF files. The book is out of print, so these are very helpful for folks who want to study what Ted created.
  • JennyH
    Posts: 106
    Daniel, you are correct. That's a bizarre way to notate a pew book. Can any of our UK friends tell us the reason for this ? Is it to help when melodies are shared for more than one text ?
    Thanked by 1DanielC
  • The Brits do this for an obvious reason: to instill and preserve a sense of poetic structure and unity of text. They might rest their case by pointing to the American Catholic inability to grasp the sense of poetic meaning and form while singing. Why else would those congregations end a hymn after only a couple of verses with a textual idea left incomplete? They might also question why contemporary Americans often seem willing to accept second rate hymn writers while the verse of someone like John Henry Newman remains unsung.

    Daniel's part-singing complaint however is valid. From recent experience I know that even experienced choristers struggle when notes are not aligned with text. I do think however that if most people were first to read a liturgical hymn text before attempting to sing it, then our hymnals would be much thinner and our repertoire richer.

    Thanked by 2CHGiffen DanielC
  • francis
    Posts: 10,848
    Randolph said:

    The Brits do this for an obvious reason: to instill and preserve a sense of poetic structure and unity of text. They might rest their case by pointing to the American Catholic inability to grasp the sense of poetic meaning and form while singing. Why else would those congregations end a hymn after only a couple of verses with a textual idea left incomplete? They might also question why contemporary Americans often seem willing to accept second rate hymn writers while the verse of someone like John Henry Newman remains unsung.


    So perfectly sad and true. America, the unbeautiful... will you ever return to that which is truly beautiful and holy?

    PS. The 1940 is absolutely stunning in every way. We claim back our Anglican rite as the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Keep 'em coming Holy Father!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Dan,

    I updated your blog article to include the Catholic Hymn Book by Gracewing.
    Thanked by 1DanielC
  • DanielCDanielC
    Posts: 37
    Thanks, JMO!

    I appreciate it... Hope it helps lots of musicians!!
    Thanked by 1Ragueneau
  • BachLover2BachLover2
    Posts: 330
    I showed the Vatican II Hymnal to a priest, who said that 200 hymns is not enough. He was looking for 400-500. What has happened to our Church? What has happened to the structure of the Mass? Jeffrey Tucker has written:

    Just this week, I had a conversation with a dedicated Church musician who had converted to the chant cause and implemented sung propers in Latin in her parish. This approach was making gains in Mass after Mass for two solid years. Then one day the pastor came to her and said: “I’m not really sure that the introit you are singing really serves its purpose. I think the people are afraid of the Latin, regard the schola as somewhat separate from everything else, and I fear that this approach is alienating people.”

    She was stunned and of course bristled. But what the pastor says goes, as we all know. Tragically, progress stopped. Now the parish is back to singing English hymns that are not part of the Mass proper. They are just hymn selections chosen the same week from a check list of possible pieces to sing. The choir was no longer singing the liturgy; it was singing something else.


    http://www.chantcafe.com/2011/09/brilliance-of-laszlo-dobszay.html
    Thanked by 1Ragueneau
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    200 does seem small. But each and every hymn in there is USABLE and UNIQUE! As opposed to buying a 800 hymn GIA hymnal, with 600 terrible texts set to "ODE TO JOY".
    Thanked by 1Ragueneau
  • Thanks to Francis and Randolph for their comments about the arrangement of hymn texts in The Catholic Hymnbook. This arrangement hardly justifies the rather thoughtless and peremptory judgment that the 'method [is] inexplicable'. Attention to the poetry that a hymn is should be a primary aim of a sound hymnal; and, anything that stresses this as of the utmost importance is deserving of a more mature assessment. I recall being 6 or 7 years old and having great fun at mass while discovering which word or syllable went with which note in the pew edition of The Hymnal 1940, and discerning what the poetry was about. I have not the ability to understand why (or sympathise with) poor 'advanced' 21st century humans who cannot do this as a matter of course and enjoy it. It is not unusual for contemporary people to be quite surprised that what they are singing is poetry AND that it has a meaning which is barbarously disregarded in the singing of only two or three stanzas. The format of hymns in many English (and American Episcopal) hymnals is not at all inexplicable; nor would our people be anything but aedified were they to come to regard it as not at all novel. People keep wondering why Catholics can't do this, that, and the other. It is because they are not expected to and are, typically, treated as though they were intellectually challenged.

    Too, as many scholars of chant on this forum will be aware, the earliest chant books contained only the words to be sung by the cantors. Can you believe it? Seventh and eighth century singers were able to sing the entire repertory without notes, and literate and highly advanced 21st century people can't sing a few hymns even with the music printed atop the page?? Absurd!.... and, inexplicable!
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    200 does seem small. But each and every hymn in there is USABLE and UNIQUE! As opposed to buying a 800 hymn GIA hymnal, with 600 terrible texts set to "ODE TO JOY".


    Gavin, thank you so much for communicating clearly in a few words what I tried (with limited success) to communicate in this article.
  • I'm not aware of any "800 hymn GIA hymnal, with 600 terrible texts set to 'ODE TO JOY'."
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    I'm with Fr. Jim. We all have our preferences. I think we can do without the snarkiness. No hymnal is perfect but I think Worship IV is a very well put together hymnal. Is every text or tune to my liking? No, but on balance, there is much strong hymnody-texts old and new set to many, many venerable old tunes, as well as some delightful new ones. I do agree that more could have been done with propers, but then again, a hymnal is just that- a hymnal. To include everything would make the hymnal prohibitively expensive to produce, and too heavy to handle!

    We must face the reality, especially in larger parishes, that we are here to SERVE. That means serving our ENTIRE community. I'm at a very large suburbarn parish. Not every piece of music I program puts me in a state of ecstasy, nor is it supposed to do that! I make progress by meeting the community where it is, stretching their boundaries, teaching them of the wonderful treasury of sacred music, including the use of propers! We've had a terrific response. The extensive use of hymnody is a reality that is not going away in most places. There is much music of the past 40 years is not going away any time soon, either. Do I really love "On Eagles Wings or Be Not Afraid?" Absolutely not. Is it important to some in the community I serve? You better believe it. As we teach and stretch our communities, charity comes first. Let's remember to check our egos at the door.
  • JennyH
    Posts: 106
    Gavin, unlike some here, I understood the point you were illustrating. I do not place "hyperbole" in the same boat as "snarkiness." GIA and others like OCP sure do have the quantity but lack the quality.