The choir I sang in last year had about 10 men and maybe 13 women but it took ten years to build up the group. Some joined because they lived in the parish, while others came from other parishes because the choirmaster had excellent taste and gave the choir worthwhile music to perform. Go ye and do likewise. Also, it helps if your pastor's preaching is worth hearing: that encourages men to stay too.

There are a ton of men available, but they are in other parishes and have no idea that people are singing music that they sang and liked in College.

Trust me, build a website for your music program and submit notes and article to the Diocesan news paper....if they do not appear, have your pastor pressure the editor.

Send news releases and copy for free ads to all the news papers around, especially college and ones that are entertainment oriented. You will find that getting yourself on the weekly calendar of these as an event at 7:00 is going to get you new members. There are many out there that are, for example, divorced, reading papers for things to do with the kids on the weekends they have them, and things to do when they do not have the kids...coming across your info will get their attention. Many feel that the church has no interest in them since no one came after them when they stopped going and their efforts at marriage left them with little or nothing except a job and payments to make. Choir? They have a choir? I have had members join for all those reasons.

Another part of your issue is that trying to impress baritones (the predominant form of male voice, as mezzo is for female voices - it's unfortunate that SATB writing tends to favor a distribution of voices that is counter to the actual distribution of voices in the population, so when dealing with amateur voices, one is always tempted to have people sing parts that their voices are not best suited to sing) into singing tenor is not going to yield the Tenor 1s required to do well by much of this repertoire. If you eliminate works where the tenors sing above F, and where the tessitura is not too taxing, you can get away with this band-aid more convincingly.

MCW,

That's why I didn't suggest changing the keys, just the repertoire. No Handel. You really have to program for SABarB. And that can be done well.

I suspect that malnourishment did something to voice ranges in the Renaissance. Your typical piece in chiavi naturali (SATB clefs) gives you nice ranges for mezzo, high tenor/countertenor, tenor and bass. That altus part is the problem: too high for most tenors, too low for altos. If you take the piece up for altos, tenors are too high, and altos are still grunting. The guys I know who manage that best have worked up a near-seamless transition into falsetto.

Good. We're on the same page. I was just joining you, sorry for the confusion.

At my previous parish, I had to battle for years to attract any women to the schola. Chant was perceived as "that monk thing" and no woman wanted to be the first to break the barrier. The trick, finally, was when I held an open workshop in the parish and managed to convince three women to sign up simultaneously.

The idea of a male choir is good, and "manly" :-) music that is more adapted to the men's voices. And look for opportunities to build that peer pressure.

Look for high school or university kids that aren't getting their music through school, and would love a different outlet. Look for home schoolers.

Great ideas, everyone. Thanks very much. I've already gone ahead and placed some ads in the local free weeklies.

Part of our problem is that we are creating a parish from scratch. The up side of that was that we got to be the schola by default; the downside was there was no congregation to draw from. We've progressed over time to the point where the men and women can sing the Propers separately now, and I think that will also help attract, since the sound is better.

I am teaching a group of homeschoolers, but they're all 3-6 years old, so that will be a while.

Prayer and perseverance will definitely do.

Wow, wish I lived wherever you are. I sing tenor, can hit that A above middle C on a good day, and am not ashamed to be singing that high. I like singing, not sports! :-)

Yet in my backwater town the music director, with her temperament, has had the choir quit in droves. One talented with a capital t organist was passed over for a promotion because of her. Then I get insulted by her in front of the whole group. Embarrassing doesn't begin to describe it. So after basically being told my services weren't good enough because God forbid I had never learned the harmony part on Christ the Lord is Risen Today, I never went back. I started permanently attending the EF parish a drive away, not because I was offended, but for spiritual nourishment.

So the men are out there, just find us! Good luck with your efforts.

Charles, having the technical tools and temperament that enable amateurs to succeed and feel great about it is huge, agreed!! I always feel like I'm voice teacher, coach, and cheerleader in every rehearsal and liturgy. I ask a lot from choir members. But I always strive to give more. And I truly love the singers.

Still, I don't dismiss the premise/ general puzzlement of this thread. My experience (though meager next to yours, my sacred music Dad) tells me that cultural trends/ issues play a varying role in who sings in choirs. The approach of the director can help stabilize things.

And here I go sounding like the Church Lady again... but I really do believe that God sends the singers needed in any choir, in His own time. What's that saying again- work like it all depends on you and pray like it all depends on God.

I concur, meine lieblische Töchter, with the mitigating factors of cultural trends and (some huge ecclesial) issues hanging over our rehearsal and worship spaces like an unstable, dark cloud that seems to hold us at bay.
A few more thoughts-
*I’m sure MOC knows that the 80 voice+ televangelist choirs, their concomitant, hipper kissin’ cousin, the Praise Team, and even august institutions of art such as the MTabernacle Choir are reflections not upon our traditions and sacred art, but a whole ‘nother ethos that I’ll simply dub “sola….” If the banquet table has everything that Home Town Buffet can concoct, plus everything other incredible-edible that Anthony Bourdain, Paul Prudhomme and BBQ Bubba has sautéed, PLUS the slick intoxication of casual, come as you are, you seeker, you….O the men will come and stay for three hours on Sunday before the 1:15pm kick-off on Sunday, and 3 hours on Wednesday night. And no one, no one will contradict the maxim “I’m a sangin’ fer God!”
*Our liturgical praxis, as we here in CMAA generally agree, reflects a continuing, emerging culmination of a truly progressive notion- that our chants of all of our liturgies are the fullest and most organic realization of thousands of years of worship traditions formed in temples and monasteries, but as Piux X advanced, are not to be relegated solely to the “professionals” in the choir or behind the iconastasis. But….
*This revelation simply is at odds with so much of what MaryAnn observes- a misperception that the chant culture is inheritantly emasculative, that it is elitist by nature, that it demands not only a discipline Americans are disinclined to exercise, but also an open heart to the challenges of encountering true mystery, not a pre-fab, convenient and consonant perception of my best bud, Jesus and the perfect diatonic triad.
*Dove-tailing off the previous…I’ve had some parishioner singers opt out of choirs under my direction (both male and female) and move to another director’s ensemble simply because the demands are less. That’s not a negative/positive reflection upon either mode of leadership, it’s just that as choristers, RC’s don’t have a long history and pervasive culture that inculcates singing at worship at an early age. Despite we seasoned seniors’ recollections of parochial school choirs chanting the Requiem from the gallery upstairs, that culture wasn’t consistent in the U.S. pre-VII, and it never yielded the fruits that obviously the Anglican culture cohesively nurtured. So, again, we’re in “terra nova” and we do what can do to re-solemnize the musical aspects of worship as we re-orient our attitudes towards God in church, and not some sort of narcissistic pond that has enchanted us in the last third of the 20th century.
*Lastly, as I firmly believe that the MR3 will provide the most obvious “in yer face, don’ you get it?” exhortation to the PIPs that ritual responses are, ahem, simply chanted! But, if our celebrant/”presiders” don’t provide the impetus for this growth, or choose to simply ignore and hope it goes away, well they’re wasting a golden opportunity to change MEN’s hearts. What’s really interesting is to encounter a celebrant who doesn’t hesitate to chant presidential orations, but otherwise prefers to sequester all other chant to history’s dustbin. Believe me, some do that, and how that doesn’t cause them a massive headache of cognitive dissonance is beyond my ken. Over the years I’ve observed these two anecdotal examples as “fables.” 1. The celebrant who won’t endorse the chanting of the Pater Noster (Snow) for a variety of reasons- someone will be “excluded”….”my bishop forbids its singing, and I’m down with him”….or other rationales; and 2. the visiting or novice vicar who, at that moment in the liturgy begins to chant the Snow and suddenly the whole congregation erupts, including the manly baritones, even if the celebrant is a whispy tenor! And when I’ve experienced the latter (so seldomly, sigh) I exult in the midst of this deep ocean of pure, unified sonic praise and then wonder, the next Sunday, why anyone would want to return to the pro forma mumbleprayer mode?
*I believe that there is a solid foundation for reclaiming men’s voices that doesn’t require some false imposition of a testosterone-induced style as advocated by Bartolucci and his minions. And all it takes is a strong, guiding hand from the “alter Christus” during his administrative and liturgical duties.

Geez, Greg...ironically that's what Wendy christened her new baby pooch, a Frenchie Bulldog:
Charlesmagne le Harlequin (Charles the Large, the Clown.)
We just call him Charlie Harley.

Well spoken, mein lieber Freund, Herr Karl! ... aber:

Vielleicht solltest du "I concur, meine liebliche Tochter, ..." schreiben. ("Töchter" is plural!! - and I doubt that your sweet daughter has multiple personalities!! :) )

Too bad some guys just don't get it: singing is both manly and enjoyable.

Entschuldigen Sie mehr, Herr Dockter, nach acht Jahren von "Deutsch" ich studiert im mit-Schule, Gymnasium und Hochschule dass war 43 Jahren vor, Ich errineret nicht so viel!
Germans seem to think singing is mannerlich! But then again, some of 'em think soprano sax improv attracts the Frauleins!

That's funny, Chuck, every time I hear someone mention "Be Not Afraid" I start humming Bach's "Fuerchte dich nicht!" I have a Munich native in my schola basses, er is mein Bruder! Now that I've turned the six oh I find myself lapsing into Sud-Deutsch with him quite naturally. Where is that in the Piaget Curve?

"I've always been rather reticent to poach singers from other choirs. If I were a cathedral director, I wouldn't have that issue..."

I think Michael means that with the resources of a cathedral the temptation would be smaller, rather than that he would consider himself above feeling reticence. We've had several valuable singers go to the cathedral, sometimes returning for extra coaching in chant & sight-reading to pass the schola audition. I hope Rudy knows he owes me!

Paul, I think my friend Charles in Cen CA is sufficient proof that men and women can both be pretty expressive ;)

I will add another thought. Start earlier than the school years. Begin with the parents, when the children are toddlers. This is the time when parents are often enthusiastic about what their children can accomplish. I don't know how to do this, but the earlier the education begins, the better.

Hahaha!!! Gotta love that!

so, any suggestions on what would be considered "manly" music? In case I ever get more than 2 men to start anything with.

Byzantine Slavonic chant.

How about Praetorius' Sing Dem Hern for a start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNC772hcKxI

hahahaha...he was kind of grumpy......

matthewj- I think that is a very neat idea. IF it would work. I think the trouble would be convincing those men "why" they should all come to Mass together just so they can sing...

I remember a thread a few months ago about getting boys to sing, and two women with real experience shared things that work. Some of it was 'developmental," which is education speak for dealing with youngsters, but some of it is masculinity. You might want to look that thread up, because one of the things you have to avoid is any fussiness in the atmosphere. Make the atmosphere, "This is what we are singing and how we are singing it." Teaching and fitting the music into the Mass for the day--fine. Talking about how it makes you feel---not so fine. Some very fine jazz musicians rehearse in my home all the time. My housemate, a superb guitarist, finishes with saying, 'Hey, that left me with a good vibe." That's it. Never once hear them say anything about how they feel--it shows up in the music.


Also, frankly, a lot of people will have had experience with volunteer DM's who were doing it because they had a "point" to make musically, usually in the 'praise and worship" and "inclusive" direction, and that usually means driving men away. So make sure that you don't have a conversation among the three people who are organizing things making the men feel as if their presence was merely tolerated.

I agree with Frogman that letting people at schools, etc, know will attract people from all over.

Kenneth