Canadian setting of the Gloria chant - need for an accompaniment
  • Mark K
    Posts: 25
    Greetings: I’m an amateur organist at a small parish in Canada who is learning the accompaniments for the ICEL chant settings posted on the musicasacra website, including those composed by site members. I'm hoping that the chant settings will become part of our parish’s musical repertoire.
    As you may have heard, the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops (CCCB) chose a setting for the Gloria different than the ICEL setting and there is no accompaniment for this that I am aware of. The composer of this setting is “Anonymous”. I have been experimenting on my own but I am not a composer, and I'm wondering if any musicasacra members would like a challenge that would benefit the church in Canada, and write an accompaniment for our Gloria chant. I am not well connected with other parishes or musicians, so I thought I would ask. Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

    I can upload a pdf of the Canadian Gloria if anyone is interested; the CCCB told me today that I can share copies with other musicians/composers as long as these are not sold.
    Sincerely,
    Mark
  • PMulholland
    Posts: 120
    You don't need to do a different Gloria. You may use the ICEL Gloria. I'm also in Canada. When it comes to music and the liturgy, the CCCB is not a great strength or authority
    on the subject. Be glad that we have other options when it comes to Mass settings.
    All the best.
    Peter
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Mark, can you post link to pdf of Canadian chant Glory?
    In meanwhile
    Finale 2006 - [ICEL Glory harm and ison II.pdf
    46K
  • AJ in Toronto
    Posts: 28
    I'd also be interested in a setting for the Canadian ICEL Gloria.
  • Mark K
    Posts: 25
    Thanks for your replies everyone. Here is the copy of the Canadian ICEL Gloria.
    Canadian ICEL Gloria Chant.pdf
    73K
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 776
    Well, I have a question. Why give a key signature of two sharps, and then make all the C's natural? Especially if there is no accompaniment. Are we afraid of modal key signatures?
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    You're right, Richard ... it makes no sense. I'm not sure it would make sense with the chant transposed down a step (no sharps or flats) but with the B's flatted (which would make sense for some of the modes). And it would be easier for people to sing if it were transposed down a step.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    A "get it off my chest" reaction-
    "And Canada's guru's think the ICEL XV Glory is 'less-than'?" Really?
    Richard, there's been a fair amount of buzz in the Cafe comboxes that the Canadian music "mentors" that arbitrated the three approved settings had a measurable constituency of, um, "strummers." I think the key assignment you rightly observe as, well, wrong...resulted from one such mentor's slavish adherence (I know, I'm really bad!) to the maxim: "If it's in guitar D, that means two sharps." To be fair, OTOH, I've seen such sloppy editing/thinking in a number of scores not by strummers.
    But to your point, before the tune even reaches the obligatory C natural, you can see/hear a tonic-minor dominant relationship comin' 'round the bend. So your question is even more acute, why not provide an accompanist with the Mixolydian key signature as a "heads up" despite the predominance (another darn pun) of the D major tonal center?
    Blech.
    Anyhoos, Mark, I'll give it shot. I don't think the world will beat a path to its doorstep, but anything to help "O Canada."
  • Mark K
    Posts: 25
    I'm sure it will be great! Thanks Charles!
  • Joseph Michael
    Posts: 258
    IMO, the "Canadian" Gloria is a singable, useful setting that would add reverence to the Mass.
  • PMulholland
    Posts: 120
    Again, why in Canada are we worried about this? We do not need to do it. Do a Gloria that is well prepared. I am astonished that we would really try to work out the CCCB "Celebrate in Song" when it perpetuates a problem. I vote to ignore it. Let it sit at the CCCB and please do not waste money on it. If we don't support this stuff financially, maybe it will finally ebb to nothing.
    From a grumpy Canadian.
    Peter
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Okay Mark,
    I'm home (day off) watching my wife's new baby (8 weeks) French Bulldog, Charlesmagne le Harlequin (CharlieHarley), who just made a good poo on his poo pad (First time, yay!)
    So, all I could afford right now is a lead sheet test run.
    I'm counting on Chuck, Francis, FNJ, JMO, RC, RR, PF or anyone else to shoot it full of holes. If I'm afforded time at work, when not teaching or being DM, I'll flesh out an organ version, which might lessen the impression of modern ballad you can discern from the basic chordal assignments.
    So have at it. I will likely get to the keyboard and post ASAP.
    Thanks, AJ.
    Could you and Mark tell any of your friends who might use the accompaniment to give me a hollar?
    scurradei at gmail dot com
    Canadian ICEL Gloria Chant Lead sheet acc.pdf
    97K
  • AJ in Toronto
    Posts: 28
    This is fantastic! Thank you so much for this.
  • Mark K
    Posts: 25
    I second AJ - thank you Charles!! If you can find time for an organ version that would be great. Good luck with the new pup!
  • RobertRobert
    Posts: 343
    Looks like the Toronto archdiocese has provided a couple of organ accompaniments, in two different keys:

    Keyboard accompaniment for the Gloria in “Celebrate in Song” 5.3

    Keyboard accompaniment for the Gloria in “Celebrate in Song” 5.3 lower key
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    I'll likely post the organ version realized from the lead sheet version above on Wednesday AM as well.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    As promised. Lots of editorial boo boo's, no time to fix. Basically, ignore ties from staff to staff, unless the last chord is a continuation to the next staff. Some missed slurs, offset harmonizations to melody, etc.
    Let me know if you really need it cleaned up for usage. CC
    Finale 2006 - [ICEL Canadian Gloria Accomp.pdf
    30K
  • Spriggo
    Posts: 122
    I actually like this Gloria. It reminds me of Proulx's "Gloria Simplex", which will be our parish's default Gloria.
  • Joseph Michael
    Posts: 258
    Thank you, Charles, for this imaginative accompaniment. Those "wild" chords really work. We are going to sing this Gloria on Sunday to see "how it flies". The only change I am making is with the final "Amen". I am splitting the final eight notes into two groups of four: A-men, Amen. To my ear, it just seems to fit better. And, thank you, Mark K, for sharing this link with us "up north". (Parts of Michigan are actually north of Canada!)
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    In addition to my CMAA role as sommelier and court fool, I'm also its official philosophical iconoclast, JM!
    Please let me know how it flies after Sunday.
    I haven't really heard it, FINALE doesn't count. So I was thinking about four of us guys out here in CA would make a YouTube of it soon.
    I did the same kind of "imaging" with my accompaniment for the US ICEL Glory. We used it at a huge annniversary Mass with great results.
  • Mark K
    Posts: 25
    Charles - this sounds great and I'm looking forward to using it in our parish - Muchas gracias!!! I will share it with the musicians I know in the diocese.
    Thanks also to Robert for the Toronto Gloria, and to everyone for taking an interest in our unique Canadian situation.
  • Joseph Michael
    Posts: 258
    We sang the "Canadian" chant Gloria this morning. With a very short pre-Mass rehearsal, the congregation responded very well. The only snag is in the third section, "For you alone are the Holy One.." A Capella, people missed the lowered 7th, the C natural, and instead, wanted sing C sharp. During the mass, with a limited organ accompaniment, the spicy chord, supplied by Charles, pulled that pitch down.

    For most of this setting, I would use a unison pitch on the organ, adding the "Charles" chords on the cadences.

    With minimal preparation, this setting was a success. It has decorum and serves the text well. I would rate this over the Belmont Mass Gloria--which I think is very good, also.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Joseph Michael, I cannot tell you how cool (California speak) it is to hear of your experience! Gratified I am.
  • Paul_D
    Posts: 133
    I'm delighted to hear these comments, as I am the anonymous composer who was asked to provide a chant Gloria to the CCCB. (As for the anonymity, it is due to an opinion that liturgical chant should be anonymous and in the public domain -- similar to the ICEL chant, but going one step further. I have signed in under a pseudonym to respect that anonymity). How interesting that the lowered 7th was missed in execution -- it seems so natural (if you will pardon the pun). The CCCB did not expect this to become a Sunday-usage Gloria, so no accompaniment was anticipated. The intention was to provide a setting that would ensure that the Gloria would be sung at all weekday feasts, when only the priest and a handful of people were present. But due to requests, I have provided an accompaniment, and the modal character should remove any temptation to raise the seventh.

    I can't wait to try out Charles' accompaniment this evening.

    "P.D."
  • Mark K
    Posts: 25
    Thanks Paul D ! I think this setting would work well for Sundays too - with accompaniment or without.
    Cheers,
    Mark
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    +1, Mark and P.D.
    The setting is most worthy of Sunday use, w/ or w/out.
    P.D. I hope my "spice" didn't sully the integrity of your work.
    I still think this "sharing" thing is almost miraculous.
  • Paul_D
    Posts: 133
    I couldn't resist doing a 4-part choral midsection, and adding some descant notes at the end (basically flipping the alto & soprano from the accompaniment). A way to add some festivity as desired. See what you think. (Hope the attachment takes)
    CIS_5.3-1 Gloria, chant (choral setting).pdf
    89K
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • David Anthony Domet
    Posts: 5
    I'm a little late to this discussion. The real question is, why did the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops not insert the proper ICEL Mass XV Gloria? This chant Gloria is quite fine and could have been in addition to the one from ICEL. As for the other three in Celebrate in Song, they are hardly worth discussing.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Canada is a fascinating place.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I dunno, I only saw Windsor. Happily, it wasn't Detroit. Plus I got real Canadian Bruce Cockburn albums (vinyl) which I don't think you can get it Arizona.
    Oh, I just noticed RC's edit timeclock- so I'm plugging my ison/accompaniment for the ICEL up there somewhere earlier. We're using it every Sunday now, a rarity for me (like I don't really use my stuff too often.)
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    Detroit > Windsor
    Thanked by 1Spriggo
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Sorry to hear that.
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