Vatican II Hymnal — (Installment #2) — ENTRANCE HYMNS & EXIT HYMNS
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    I must say, folks, I am so surprised that there has been not a SINGLE instance of, "Hey, you forgot to include this Hymn for Ordinary time ..."

    ....Are my choices really that good ?? (stunned disbelief)
  • Mike R
    Posts: 106
    Haha, well, if you really want to open the floodgates of everyone's favorite non-included hymn...

    I am indifferent to question of the verses. I don't see it being terribly helpful in most places, but I think it's worth trying and will not confuse people. If it will possibly help people to sing, then what's the harm? There are plenty of hymnals out there with the standard way of just putting all the verses together; why not have just one with this different way of doing it?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Because the less it looks like a typical hymnal, the less people will be interested in buying it.

    It is extremely difficult to choose the balance between innovation and appeal to the end user.

    If two versions were created, one that looks and reads like the Episcopal hymnal 1982 or 1940 and one that had verses like this and other creative elements, such as the gorgeous cover design that has been proposed, and two piles were placed on a table at Colloq, they would equally diminish in size...

    At the NPM convention, the innovative pile would diminish bit by bit, while the other one...where'd it go?

    If the goal is to introduce innovation and improving the music in the entire US church and turning a profit is not a goal, then creative is always the way to go. [at Frog Music Press, I am famous for creating really neat projects that never sell, while those of my associates do - how about Bach duets for two keyboards that are playable and faithful note by note to his scores? Dud...but cool!]

    My suggestion is this: We all want Corpus Christi Watershed to grow and prosper. I suggest that two versions be created, first one that looks as much like the Episcopal 1982, and put on the market to get the cash flowing at CCW. And every element in the book has a number, no page numbers.

    Then, once that is selling, and it will, then take the exact same files and build the innovative version that may be used with the other one interchangeably, since all the readings and music are under the same numbers.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Noel: "Because the less it looks like a typical hymnal, the less people will be interested in buying it."

    This is spot on! People know what a hymnal should look and feel like. This no doubt contributes somewhat to the reviling of the disposable missalette - in itself, I should think a good idea. But where a hymnal is usually hard cover, made with the finest paper with the finest layout, we get floppy books with "bible paper" and hymns jammed in and altered. The more a hymnal looks like a hymnal, the more people will want it!

    I wish to agree with Olbash's point too: "As we hammer away at this point, please remember that we are doing so because we all want to see this hymnal in many, many pews by this time next year!"

    I have pledged my support to this product despite what I see to be flaws, because I think it's just wonderful.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Ok, a couple brief hymn demands:

    - I don't know the traditional text, but there's a great Trinitytide hymn exclusive to Catholic hymnals: "God Father, we adore you" or something.

    - There are only 3 verses to "O Sacred Head". This is an inexcusable poverty! You can find all 14 verses in The Lutheran Hymnal. I urge you to use them, or at least a broader selection of them.

    - Is "Praise, My Soul, the King of Heaven" in there?

    It would be easier to review the hymn selection with a table of contents.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,481

    Jeff, small item here. Tune names are traditional in all caps (e.g., NICEA). It's a small thing, but I noticed it.

    Thanks, Michael. Someone else suggested this, too. I was simply following the way they do it in the "Hymnal 1982." I will evaluate the pro's and con's of this change. thanks!


    The 1982 is a very strangely edited hymnal. I wouldn't use it as the standard for any decision making.
  • Bobby Bolin
    Posts: 419
    Yes Gavin, I believe Praise My Soul the King of Heaven is included (if I remember right)
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    I know I may be in the minority ...

    But I actually like having a number of hymn texts that use the same melody - I.E. Lord Whose Love in Humble Service, Those Who Love and Those Who Labor, Loving Father Ever Waiting, all set to BEACH SPRING.

    I wouldn't mind seeing more hymn texts ... But I didn't even bring this up in an effort to concentrate my constructive criticism on the LAYOUT of the hymn verses.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 986
    I might make some suggestions, however, I have a poor memory for remembering hymns until I see them and then it's the classic "Oh, yeah, now I remember".

    While I doubt that my pastor would want a hymnal that doesn't have a huge selection (it seems people want quantity over quality these days), I will definitely get a copy of this hymnal for myself when it comes out. I enjoy collecting them.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Adam...I prefer the a canadian hymnal that was typset in Wurzburg, Germany myself, but did not site it since very few have seen one...

    The 1982 has flaws, sure. So what do you suggest. I like the 1940 layout, but many have not seen that.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    1940 is a good standard on almost every aspect. My beef with a hymnal in a Catholic Church is that hymns should not dominate the musical content. Ordinary and Propers should be primary. I don't think those who know better should perpetuate an imbalanced (protestant) approach. JO, I am not knocking your project, just offering some perspective.

    In other words, BFW is more the type of publication that should be found in pews.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,481
    I don't have a good standard for Hymnal editing- just a few things I like and dislike about everything I've ever seen.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 986
    By the way, have you by any chance asked this question elsewhere? Here you're likely to get a bunch of opinions from musicians. What about getting some from those who aren't and see what they think of the layout?
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