Sacred Music And Secular Styles - "food for thought" by Rory Cooney
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    "No, you do no good if your raison d'etre is to first **** people off, and then hide behind Benedict's smile. What you get for that is generally "fired." How does that help the brick by brick thingy?"

    Was what Charles said and was his interpretation of what he thought I was saying. He's the man with the bricks, not me.

    No one should attempt any change in a Catholic music program without full, complete, support of the pastor. When that support is there, then doing things that the people "do not like" is part of the job. Adam, in his work, also serves at the discretion of the pastor. The vestry and people have no control over the employment of a musician in the Episcopal church.

    Following the intent of the pastor is not hiding behind Benedict's smile. There are pastors out there that can be trusted.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    While technically FNJ is correct, I think if the vestry raised a ruckus I'd probably get replaced.
    Of course, at my job everyone pretty much gets along very well. If that stopped being the case, I'd probably quit, since they don't pay me enough to put up with cr@p, and I have a day-job.
    I'm also in an odd situation compared to those of you who work in Catholic parishes, in that I am not beholden to Catholic liturgical law. While many Catholic MDs act as if that were true of them, I wouldn't approach a job in the Catholic church the way I approach this one. You all know my tastes run contrary (somewhat) to Catholic liturgical policy, and if I were working in a Catholic parish, I would subjugate my desires to the will of the Church (inasmuch as I would be able to do so with support from my pastor), as it is, I'm able to do (some) David Haas (and even Rory Cooney!) without feeling guilty.
    I try to be beholden to good taste, but I pretty much get to be the final arbiter on what that means. And I have a mandate from my employer (both the pastor and the people) to "do a mix." That's convenient for me, as I like a lot of different things- but it's a mandate I might feel less comfortable about in a Catholic setting.

    Regardless- I'm quickly gaining a reputation as one of the better Episcopalian MDs in the area, and people are starting to show up because of it. I don't even think I'm all that great, but I care a great deal, love the music, and I work hard. The result is quality, and people are starting to show up from other parishes because of it. Quality does that, regardless of the genre.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Is musicians' success measured by the number and immediate responses?
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,022
    Definition of "banned": I have been told that a priest, once he knows his bishop's preferences, must honor those preferences as a part of his vow of obedience. Hence, if a bishops makes known, even in a private conversation, his preferences for no Latin, no ad orientem, no kneeling during the Eucharistic Prayer, etc., these mere wishes are treated as authoritative law within that diocese. Maybe said bishop cannot officially reprimand said priest, but consider which parish within the diocese is the most like Russian Siberia, and you get the idea.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    "I have been told that a priest, once he knows his bishop's preferences, must honor those preferences as a part of his vow of obedience."

    If a bishop expect that sort of obedience from a priest, he himself must be doing the same to the Church?
  • Michael O'Connor
    Posts: 1,637
    Someone tell Mr Shea that the word is "piqued"
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    While technically FNJ is correct, I think if the vestry raised a ruckus I'd probably get replaced.

    Wrong. You stay or leave solely at the decision of the rector. It's not technical, it's law. There are some things that the Episcopal church has decided must not be subject to control by lay people and one of them is music.

    If you do music to make the people happy, are you doing your job? Who are you working for?
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    Why does it have to be either-or?

    Adam is right: high quality music, tastefully done, well-planned, well-thought out, will be attractive just by virtue of being good. People will like it.

    The issue of good music is somewhat different from the issue of the right music. Or should I say, the "rite" music.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    FNJ- I'm only acknowledging that at my parish, the pastor is not a dictator.

    Kathy- Right music different than good music. Absolutely true. The best is both. And as I said, I would likely program differently at a Catholic Church than at an Episcopal one (for example- I would be pushing Propers).
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,220
    "I have been told that a priest, once he knows his bishop's preferences, must honor those preferences as a part of his vow of obedience."

    The bishop's power is not absolute in law. Many of the options provided in the Roman Missal are defined by the Holy See, and cannot be redefined or excluded by individual bishops; they are the celebrant's prerogative to choose. There are various cases of dubia being sent to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, and responses issued, to settle particular questions of this kind. On the other hand, as Steve notes, a bishop could try to impose his personal preferences through some arbitrary use of his administrative powers.
  • Ralph BednarzRalph Bednarz
    Posts: 493
    Matthew 17:27: “But so that we may not cause offense,...Go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.

    I got through the door the first time with Gregorian Propers only by describing as " a different version of a Taize Text."

    It is very much like working in the chaos after a war in a far off mission. I love it because there are abundant blessings , and abundant opportunities for improvement.Our choir's very weakens, the slow pace at which we can master chants, has become our most effective tool for judiciously placing chants into the liturgy at a reasonable pace. one proper at a time, brick by brick.
  • Ralph BednarzRalph Bednarz
    Posts: 493
    deleted
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,022
    "The bishop's power is not absolute in law."

    But it certainly is within his power to appoint a priest to the smallest mission parish (or parishes) farthest from his chancery office!
  • David Sullivan
    Posts: 355
    Steve Collins,
    or as a priest sang to me once, with apologies to Lerner and Loewe:
    "All I want is a rectory, far away from the chancery..." (He has it, by the way!)
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