Actually one does not have accept that Original Sin was that big of a problem. The Dominican Order in the 16th century argued vehemently against the adoption of the Immaculate Conception doctrine, citing no real support for it in the writings of the Church Fathers or in scripture. I realize that it is now dogma, but the Roman Church was not all unified before the declaration. In fact, Franciscans and Dominicans got into such heated battles that Pope Pius V had to issue a bull restricting promotion of the doctrine and essentially forbidding the two orders from excommunicating each other. The musical results of the IC's advocacy the subsequent restrictions are fascinating.

I too was startled by the vitriolic irrelevancy of that latest post, BachLover2
I don't know that I should ever read that forum again, much less try to post.



(Save the Liturgy, Save the World)

There should be room for both partisan sites and those where the parties come together: the former as places that offer an opportunity for those of a similar mind to exchange information and develop ideas and practice; the latter by encouraging informed debate, celebrating what we have in common and exposing us to ideas that help us test and refine our own.

The party sites need to avoid partisan narrowness: they benefit from being places where neighbours and those passing through feel comfortable asking questions, providing information and generally broadening horizons. The sites with ambitions to go beyond party must avoid Whiggery (the unreflective arrogance of dogmatic relativism) like the plague. They benefit from honest recognition of difference, and an editorial commitment to even-handedness and mutual respect, without which they will become party sites, yet lacking the benefit of recognising it. Of course, it goes without saying that use of the delete key to remove uncongenial criticism will diminish both.

BTW, Jeffrey, I particularly like the two analogies and their follow-up in your second article.

Kathy,

I think, though, that Fr. Ruff has let himself down badly with the undisguised glee he has shown in using the unfounded accusations against His Holiness as a stick with which to beat his liturgical reforms.

partisan sites and those where the parties come together

Either categorization would be a dumbing down of the CMAA.

liberal or conservative

And again.

The attacks on Jeffrey will have apparently worked, if he and this site end up boxed into such corners. Shame on us if we respond as the enemy intended, rather than as Catholics ought.

None of those labels is appropriate for the Church and such labels have been used by her enemies since before her birth.

I reject those labels utterly as agents of Satan.

I'm sorry if I misled you, Ian. They are useful words in describing situations.

They are simply inaccurate in describing the Catholic Church or the CMAA, and to apply them here would be a grave and damaging misuse of the words.

...

(comment deleted)

Hmm. I'm not sure that's very fixed.