Ah well, you don't sound too happy getting advice either ;-) The composer in that particular case was pretty practical about transposing to fit the singers at hand (I'm rather proud that we never repeat the same Messiah twice): consider "But who may abide'', composed for baritone in 6/8 (d minor) with note in the autograph to transpose to e minor; rewritten for alto with new presto (d minor again) and transposed twice, with adapted violin parts in g minor and a minor.

That's another issue. The organist at my church asked when I was hired if I did that. He claimed he could but when I wanted him to accompany me on the Franck Panis Angelicus to which I gave him the music two weeks in advance, he said he didn't play it in that key. I was welcome to sing and accompany myself on guitar so I had to take the piece and put it in that instrument and play it. Look guys, you have a legitimate beef there asking to get the music ahead of time but you can't be the great know it all impressarios you are proclaiming yourselves to be and then get quivery when a vocalist takes you at your attitude. Sorry but step back and listen to yourselves!
You think because we vocalists can sing in a key that it pleases you to play that it should be no big deal to do it wherever you pick. I used to have a 3 octave range so I could but there were still keys that I was used to and by practice had made the piece a more prayerful sound. Anyway, I was talking about turning a knob to transpose and not doing it manually.

There's no knob to turn on a pipe organ. Transposing was not a skill that was emphasized when I studied organ. I am not, nor have I ever been, a pianist. My friends who actually studied piano seemed to learn transposing somewhere in their piano studies. So the advance notice is critical for me, unless I happen to be playing an electronic organ somewhere else. Over the years, I have built up a collection of commonly sung pieces in several keys. I don't, and can't, carry them all with me to use at a moment's notice. There's certainly nothing wrong with singing pieces in the keys where the composers actually wrote them. I have encountered singers who want to sing pieces never intended for their range. Should they do that? Maybe, sometimes no.

There's no knob to turn on a pipe organ.

That's a pretty broad statement to make...
Are you saying that if it DOES have a knob then it's not a pipe organ?
Or that you've played every single pipe organ in the world and discovered that none of them have transposing knobs? um, ok....

well, I've definitely got one on my pipe organ... I'm pretty sure that they're not uncommon.

Interesting. My church organ is 1953 vintage, so it doesn't transpose anything. It sounds like the circuitry is doing the transposing. I didn't know that was now possible. I had heard of some transposing that was possible with trackers by shifting the keyboards somewhat, but didn't really understand the process. I am facing a console rebuild and I wonder if that feature could be included. They will essentially take everything out of the console and replace it with electronic circuitry. Perhaps? Canadash, who did your rebuild?

I just found a youtube video of the Klop Continuo Organ, which transposes at A392/A415/A440/A466, essentially exactly as I described in my post above, in this case down one or two semitones or up one semitone from A440.

This will probably start another debate, but I'm of the mindset that we organists are there to accompany the singer and that we have an obligation to make sure the singer is comfortable with whatever range. After all, they are the ones that are singing the all important lyric. But, I do agree that some singers feel they can just throw something at us at the last minute and expect greatness. If I'm doing a wedding, for instance, I will make sure I get the name of the soloist from the bride well in advance and e-mail myself in preparation for the rehearsal. Funerals are another story because of the quick turn around time. In that case, I would just chord the music and not do written accompaniments.

I am not the organist at our parish. I don't know enough about the organ to tell you about it (I have many excuses for this!) I know it is a Casavant and it is a tracker (or it was before the rebuild! - could the rebuild have changed that? - Oh it is so sad that I don't know!) I believe it is from the early twentieth century. Our rebuild was done by Alan Jackson in Toronto. PM me if you would like more info, Charles.

As for transposition... our organ transposes higher or lower at least 4 semitones. It is absolutely wonderful. I have different cantors from our choir on a weekly basis and though I try to choose psalms that fit their range, it isn't always possible. So the transposer is great! I (or the organist) used to write out the transpositions and it was a nuisance. If you are having your console refurbished, why not add such a useful tool?!

Charles W, I will pray you can get that transposer. I am happy there is a sunny side to these discussions.
Wendi, we agree as usual. Rude is out for all. We are all trying to do the best job we can and I think in the interest of our own quest we sometimes feel hamstrung by the needs of others. And then there is that occasional bear who hates everybody and doesn't care about mauling other ministers feelings. Even turning the other cheek doesn't seem to stop the abuse, but God sees all and we can only leave it for Him to straighten out.
Musicteacher, there is a document by the Bishops which organists (at least mine has) are quoting to assert the organ should lead. The document seeks to please every one by saying the voice is primary and leads in one section then saying the organ is primary and leads in another. No wonder there is a silent war going on behind the scenes. I wonder if there is a guild for vocalists. The organists have one. Do we need to go that route to get representation? The everybody sing dictum is being used as a tool to denigrate trained vocalists as people no one wants to sing with. How sad. Does any body really believe that?
After we all maul each other to death there won't be a music ministry so we better pull together!

Getting along is mandatory. Getting your way is selfish.

canadash

Yes... it is a constant effort, isn't it!

Sorry....hit the "post" button before I was finished........

I think it's imperative for everybody to get along and get along well and beautifully. The choir is a service to the people. Nobody would want to go to a doctor whose staff didn't get along because when you're there, you need to feel protected and taken care of. Nobody wants to come to church and bring their issues to the foot of our Lord at the altar, and watch choir not getting along. Comraderie reflects in the music, as does lack of it.

I would think it incredibly rude for a vocalist to come and demand that something be set in their key especially at the last minute. But I find demanding behavior to be rude in any situation. I'm much more about respectful requests.

The thing about requests is that they are just that: requests. Some cantors I've worked with seem to think that requests are just polite ways of demanding something, and do not accept my response when I say no. I've got a cantor who wants everything down a M2 for her, regardless of the original key: she's even admitted that she wouldn't understand looking at a key signature even if she tried. I of course have a real problem with this, especially since she has insisted for almost a year that the proverbial "congregation" prefers it her way: a claim that I have observed to be untrue across several Mass times. This cantor has demanded her M2 ever since I took over as the DM, and has developed the system of going to Fr and complaining when I won't let her have it, often citing the proverbial "congregation" as agreeing with her, although to my knowledge, no member of the congregation has ever stepped forward and said things were too high, even without the transposition.