The Hymnal Industrial Complex
  • cholman
    Posts: 8
    The Lepanto Institute a few days ago released an article entitled "The Hymnal Industrial Complex" which outlines the major issues relating to the GIA/OCP monopoly on Catholic church music in the US. It's worth a read: https://www.lepantoin.org/wp/the-hymnal-industrial-complex.

    Here's my take on it, though: in my view the real culprit behind all this — who is barely mentioned in the article — is the USCCB. They are one of the only bishops conferences in the world (maybe the only) which never organized their own hymnal and mandated its use. In doing so, they opened the doors of church music to consumerism, which has resulted in almost all the dreadful music happening in Catholic churches today. They had and still have the authority to do like every other bishops conference (and frankly every other Christian denomination) and unify everything. But their actions — not limited to music, but also creating their own very stilted translations of Scripture and ancient liturgical texts and putting them under royalty-generating copyright — seem to suggest that money is more important than the catechesis and liturgical formation of American Catholics. If I'm misreading the situation (I hope I am), I would very much like to be corrected, and I look forward to some of your thoughts.
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  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 1,018
    They are one of the only bishops conferences in the world (maybe the only) which never organized their own hymnal and mandated its use.


    The are not alone. The bishops of the Netherlands never published their own hymnal.

    and putting them under royalty-generating copyright

    Any text that is published is copyrighted. It’s about what you do with your rights.
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  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,514
    Neither England&Wales nor Scotland has organised its own hymnal.
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  • Liam
    Posts: 5,191
    Neither do France nor Spain, so far as I am aware. Not sure about Portugal or Italy, or Latin American nations. Australia has a core recommended repertoire, it seems, but perhaps not a national hymnal as such like Germany and Canada.

    If the American bishops of the 1960s-1990s had fathered a national hymnal, I can't imagine it would have been anything like Theodore Marier's & John Dunn's "Hymns Psalms and Spiritual Canticles" (1st ed. 1975; 2nd ed. 1983) that possessed such a solid psalter and collections for the conciliar Ordinary/Ordo Missae for which the idiom of chant was the reference point (even many of the hymn tunes chosen for the hymns section were apparently chosen for being sympathetic to being sung in what we today might say is a chant-adjacent way). That hymnal represents a generation of experience that preceded it, including the Pius X Hymnal and Cantus Populi (the latter not being as well known, but was a very important stage in the process).Even the bishops in charge in this century are unlikely, as a body, to be as thoughtful and particular.
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  • francis
    Posts: 10,911
    Hymns… not a significant part of Catholic music for Mass. The real question is who made everyone think so? And why do we keep perpetuating this false narrative? We have our music books. We’ve had them for centuries. Let’s get back with the real program and be rid of the protestant mentality.

    On that note, you can buy my hymnal which has no copyright attached except the layout.

    http://franciskoerber.com/fleur-de-lys-hymnal/
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  • Liam
    Posts: 5,191
    The prevalence of Low Mass contributed to the development of hymn singing by Catholics in the pews during Mass well before V2, especially outside of areas dominated by Irish Catholics. It may not be significant in ritual terms, but as a practical matter it became significant.

    The beating heart of HP&SC was its psalter and settings for the Ordo Missae. It is no fault that it also included hymnody that in no small part was sympathetic to that heart.
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  • davido
    Posts: 998
    It's an interesting article. However, the material published by GIA should be enough to warrant not using their hymnbooks, regardless of how much one knows about their owners and executives. The issue has always been that there are lots of Catholics who are liberals in theology and politics so they have no problem with the music, lyrics, and altered hymn texts.
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  • francis
    Posts: 10,911
    In my opinion, the 1940 is probably the best hymnal that was ever produced (although it is sorely lacking especially in missing the Marian and sacramental dimensions.)
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  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 567
    Be careful what you wish for. The new German Gotteslob is not any better than Worship IV. The 1993 Canadian CBW was already stripped of gendered language and any hieratic English and the new one upcoming just swaps the remaining bits of tradition for OCP stuff written since ‘93.

    The 70s GL was outstanding, and CBW 1 and 2 were serviceable, because the musicians the bishops consulted were all organists/choirmasters formed in the old ways. This is not the case anymore and the results show it. Everyone I know in Canada wishes we had Source and Summit, St. Michael, Adoremus….. Some parishes just buy American books and do something else for the psalms.
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  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,588
    Worship II or III, can’t remember which, is what our organist uses alongside the Hymnal 1940 as her go-to.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,122
    I found this video unpleasantly hysterical.

    First there was the bit about the views and predilections of many of The Former Gregorian Institute of America's staff. GIA is doing a big business in music education; I'd argue that their music ed books are of more use to the parish musician than their music. Since they're working for a primarily secular company, lifestyles play less of a part. I'm not saying NO part. But the Wokedom of public school music is a different issue.

    Then there was the argument that the Big Two are responsible for the state of Catholic music. Well, who is responsible for the Big Two? There are alternatives nowadays. Why aren't they being used? Pushy laity, pusillanimous clergy, and go-along-get-along DMs play their part. How many of the USCCBs problematic hymns are still done? In how many places with a ban on the music of David Haas are there exceptions "for pastoral reasons"?

    And why did OCP get mentioned and then mostly not discussed?

    Yes, their business model is horrible, and would not change even if the repertoire were changed. But a concerted effort could put them out of business in a year or two. If the hysteria helps fellow hysterics to make that happen, this might be a good thing. But it's a glib approach to the problem. When E. Michael Jones is riding this horse (complete with obligatory J-word), it doesn't help its credibility.
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  • Here's a routine reminder: Write with future readers in mind.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,588
    Because the Lepanto Institute is one guy who can identify big problems but can’t do anything except proceed to miss the forest for the trees or focus on the wrong part of the problem: a big tendency in conservative politics is to make a mountain out of a mole hill that would be a problem, if all things were equal…and this guy is no different.
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  • hilluminar
    Posts: 123
    The article is valuable in so far as people need to be informed; otherwise they won't act. But I am curious as to why you, Jeffrey Quick, bring E. Michael Jones into this discussion. What does Jones have to do with it? The article was written by William Mahoney. And why do you, Matthew Roth, say that the Lepanto Institute is one guy. Obviously it is not just one guy, and even if it was, why would that make a difference? I hardly think that the state of hymnody in the United States is a "mole hill". This is very serious.
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  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 347
    Man, the amount of AI generated "art" in the video makes me question the author's aesthetic sensibilities.
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  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,588
    Another problem with conservative media!
  • Here's a routine reminder: Be patient about legitimate differences in personal taste.
  • TimTheEnchanterTimTheEnchanter
    Posts: 211
    It's amazing how many issues are solved by reminding yourself that you do not and should not care.

    I do not care that the GIA boss is Jewish. I do not care about his wife, who is not employed by GIA. I don't care if people who work there post their pronouns, even though I think pronouns in this context are dumb. And chances are you'll have to work with people who identify as LGBTQ in Church music ministry at some point, if you're not currently doing so. (In my area, it's a pretty large percentage.)

    It's far wiser to just ... evaluate each hymnal/piece of music/choral piece on its own merits, and decide whether you would like to use it.

    You can get plenty of quality stuff from GIA. Their handbell music is a lot more reliable and approachable for my bell choir than general handbell companies' output, and I got the Thatcher Communion antiphon book -- the antiphons also published in St. Michael Hymnal V -- for my adult choir, among other things. The Latona "Mandatum" (which my choir also does) is from them. A lot of their older choral stuff is still available, and of high quality. I've bought plenty of it in the near-four years establishing myself at my current parish. Of course, you can also find plenty of garbage -- I just ... don't use it.

    I go to their summer "choral readings" most of the time, as it allows me to visit with colleagues, and based on what's offered there, the direction they have taken post-He Who Shall Not Be Named has gone badly. Gather IV is a mess. The output from their composers is increasingly boring and bland -- not offensive, but not interesting. I would not be surprised if their sales trend is heading the wrong way.

    Lepanto huffs and puffs and hyperventilates, but it's ultimately a sideshow. All they do is complain and complain. We have to be adults and carry out this ministry like adults. And that involves using a more thoughtful discernment than they are using.
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  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,982
    None of this was a surprise to anyone paying attention. I’m much of the same mind as Gamba … do we trust the ‘stewards’ who led us into and encouraged this mess to then put a good hymnal together and mandate it? I can only fathom the amount of dribble that would be in it that we would then be forced to use, or at least pilloried for not using, since everyone would know about it and it was mandated. I’m pleased to see source and summit gaining so much ground, although other good publishers like ILP shouldn’t be forgotten about either.

    Apart from the issue of whatever could come down from on high, there’s the larger issue of all the parish musicians who gladly use all the stuff we abhor. They don’t think there’s anything wrong with it, because their theological and liturgical understanding and sensibilities are as poor as the music they inflict upon their congregations.

    So, as with so many issues in the church, it boils back down to catechesis. Nothing will improve unless there’s a biblical flood’s worth of that.
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  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,982
    (And I include congregations in this… because we all know you can put beautiful, edifying music in front of congregations and they will reject it outright.)
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  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,122
    What does Jones have to do with it?

    He was sharing this. There are some people you don't want on your team.
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  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,588
    @hilluminar it's Micheal Hichborn and his preoccupations du jour. It is really nothing more than that. He may have a point. He may be doing valuable work for the church and society, but it really is just one guy. (Notice that the contact email is his own email!)

    You missed my point entirely so I'm going to ditch dancing around the point. I do not exactly care about the state of hymnody, because if it were up to me, we'd have very little of it, but I would also be OK with modern compositions in more modern styles closer to folk music playable with guitar, because "meeting people where they are at" is important enough. I do not want to go on and on about OCP or GIA when the powers that be are aware and are trying (OCP) or do not care (GIA). Or where they ought to have cared and didn't do anything lasting (GIA, again).

    But to Jeffrey's point: this is clearly not that big of a deal if they mention OCP only to not elaborate.

    I do not care that the GIA boss is Jewish. I do not care about his wife, who is not employed by GIA. I don't care if people who work there post their pronouns, even though I think pronouns in this context are dumb. And chances are you'll have to work with people who identify as LGBTQ in Church music ministry at some point, if you're not currently doing so. (In my area, it's a pretty large percentage.)


    I think it’s easier to not care about GIA at that point, because those are all important things, and all things being equal, we ought to be critical. I don’t see how a non-Christian (not even Catholic, the bar is that low) can direct this sort of company.

    There is hardly anything new worth purchasing in this case, since no one is inclined to stop them; it’s all the fruit of a poisonous tree. That said, replacement copies of something like Worship III, for the organist, are still needed around my place, so we’ll still have to send them some money from time to time.

    But if there is, since people say there is: why is Peter Latona, who isn’t a nobody, publishing with GIA? This stuff isn’t new.
  • Diapason84
    Posts: 94
    Unfortunately a lot of prelates in the US don't care about liturgy and this trickles down to their presbyterates. They are not going to mandate anything about music in the near future. People should spread the word about the folly of GIA and OCP. I gave up on both publishers a long time ago. Stop buying their music.
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  • Marc Cerisier
    Posts: 552
    why is [insert name of GIA composer], who [is/isn’t] a nobody, publishing with GIA? This stuff isn’t new.


    Good infrastructure for distribution and marketing? A pipeline into most parishes in the country? I loved the royalty bump when my Xmas psalm was included in the choral packet one year. I know my forthcoming Spanish Mass Ordinary (that is dignified, designed for a capella or with organ, choral parts, etc... not the typical fare) will see use in far more parishes than if I just posted it on the internet.

    It's important to me, in regards to GIA, that they manage my publications well. I am unbothered by the fact the owner shares the same religion as the founder of Catholicism.
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  • hilluminar
    Posts: 123
    Marc, you should be bothered. GIA's owner, Alec Harris does not share the same religion as the founder of Catholicism. Jesus, and the Church He founded, did not funnel money to a group who "directly funds pro-abortion initiatives and partners with Planned Parenthood". Jesus, and the Church He founded, never committed to "all manner of sexual perversion", LGBTQ, same sex "marriage", or transgenderism. This sounds like the synagogue of Satan, which Jesus would have nothing to do with. Do not muddy the waters.
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  • Here's a routine reminder: Be principled not polemical.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,588
    I am unbothered by the fact the owner shares the same religion as the founder of Catholicism.


    Well he does not really share that and has not since sometime between the Baptism of the Lord in the Jordan, the Passion, and the destruction of the Temple as foretold by the Lord.

    Again, I don’t want to go down the rabbit hole of conspiracies and violence promoted by people such as E. Michael Jones. But since I do care that Catholic music is promoted by Catholics, or at least people who believe in the Incarnation and in the Trinity, then I have to say that GIA is not doing the right things, and that they’re best avoided.

    Call me naive or stupid, but I don’t think that the director of such a prominent music program will have any difficulty getting his music out there on his own or through a perhaps less efficient and effective publisher. Even OCP is more Catholic than GIA, and that does matter even a little bit.

    But you know Marc, I think that you muddied things by trying to make it about a general case, when I’m specifically bothered by a high-profile musician. Now, he’s not present here as far as I know, but if someone snitches, then he can chime in here to defend himself, but it’s a fair criticism. GIA is basically toast. The way to not care about them, and to not dabble in things that are nonsense at best and are evil at worst, is to avoid them and minimize doing business with them. Which yes, has consequences. Your music isn’t maybe quite as accessible. You might get less money. Maybe that’s unfair, but so many people make zero dollars in this business, whether it’s because they generously license things or don’t even bother trying to sell it in the first place…

    And since you say that you want them to manage your publications well: there is a problem when we disagree on first principles, not just of the liturgy but of, you know, the thing itself. Never mind anything to which Mrs. Harris might donate where her husband keeps himself somewhat at arm’s length. At least OCP is nominally Catholic in structure, even if its civil corporate structure makes reform by the ecclesiastical authorities very difficult.

    Now, I feel bad, because WLP was better than OCP but is now part of GIA, so I kind of understand taking the poison pill — but the justifications given here are entirely unconvincing, and I don’t think that pretending to be unbothered is actually convincing either.
  • TimTheEnchanterTimTheEnchanter
    Posts: 211
    This sounds like the synagogue of Satan, which Jesus would have nothing to do with. Do not muddy the waters.


    I am absolutely against putting obligations on someone when the Church does not.

    Marc has absolutely no obligation to not affiliate with GIA. Any association he would have with any evils a particular employee (even the boss) supports would be remote and indirect. If he chooses not to affiliate, fine. But he's not doing anything wrong by having his music published by GIA.
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  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,588
    The boss supporting evils directly affects the product. It’s a matter of first principles.

    It’s not about Marc’s remote material cooperation (permissible or otherwise). It’s about how we get this to stop, since the hierarchy doesn’t care. Indeed, I even have fewer qualms ordering through, say, Paraclete Press if I want Solesmes material (or to pay an arm and a leg for shipping to get it from the abbey store). And we can just say “it’s about money” or whatever is a satisfactory summary of your reasoning for those who wish to stick with GIA as a publisher for their work.

    It’s just that I’m led to believe that, e.g. the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception has a music program worth emulating, and my aesthetic preferences aside, if that’s the case, then it’s hard to accept its director working with GIA when, well, he could just not do that because he’s big enough to do so.

    Anyway, you don’t have to like the video or hysterics or do the thing where conservatives are going to repeat the same problems for the next six weeks (months, years…), but just knowing in broad strokes that GIA is worse than I thought and is basically unsalvageable — which is truly something given the number of posts on this forum over the years.
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  • DavidOLGCDavidOLGC
    Posts: 106
    I've read this whole thread and find it quite interesting.

    Our church used to use OCP music books until our current pastor took over.

    Where we stand now - no guitars or piano at the English services, only voices and organ; we now use either Source and Summit or the Ignatius press Pew Missal; less use of hymns and more singing of the liturgy itself.

    Plus, this week we cleaned out the music library and put all the old OCP stuff into the recycle bin. That was a task I was rather happy to help with.
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  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,122
    Dealing with GIA is a bit like deciding to shop on Sunday. "Running in to pick up a few things", in itself, is not a major Sabbath violation; the store is open anyway. But the store is open because they know you will "run in to pick up a few things." And if nobody did, the store would not be open.

    I don't have an issue with good composers providing product to GIA. It's hard to monetize church music.
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  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,122
    "we ...put all the old OCP stuff into the recycle bin."
    I had to wince, because this looks a lot like Advent I 1969. Most of that stuff was crap too, but it wasn't all crap, and I'm personally interested.

    Someday there will be a Museum of Liturgical Horror, and we need to preserve content.
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  • Liam
    Posts: 5,191
    There are people/business who go around picking all manner of time-specific ephemera for eventual supply to the entertainment industries when period-specific details are needed. (Mad Men did a great job with authentic touches from such supplies.) Take a look at trash from that angle, and you get a new perspective. (For but one small example, classic McDonald's and Burger King food packaging from decades ago: someone found and saved those things and they show up on sets from time to time....)
  • DavidOLGCDavidOLGC
    Posts: 106
    Jeffrey Quick 7:25AM
    Posts: 2,121
    "we ...put all the old OCP stuff into the recycle bin."
    I had to wince, because this looks a lot like Advent I 1969. Most of that stuff was crap too, but it wasn't all crap, and I'm personally interested.

    Someday there will be a Museum of Liturgical Horror, and we need to preserve content.


    Actually, I did keep a copy of things like one or two of the "Breaking Bread" books and such - but we disposed of all the duplicates. I also kept some of the sheet music of older traditional hymns.

    We also found a box that was buried under the modern stuff, and it contained a number of pre-Vatican II hymnals, which now are on my music library shelf.
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  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,194
    So, you can support GIA,which has some good things but also materially cooperates with evil (the David Haas affair and other things) or not.

    I have not ordered from GIA (and OCP) since 2000 and do not plan to order from them at all. One does not "need" them to run a music program. But they want you to think they do. The internet has democratized resources for the liturgy to the point that no publisher will get my dollars unless I want them to receive them (lovely publishers like Breitkopf,etc). We all make choices.

    As the OP noted, at the center is the bishop's lack of leadership. That should not surprise us.

    Whine, bitch and complain if you do not like the article (or do). Both GIA and OCP could be out if enough folks stopped supporting them. The problem is that the great unwashed NO musician is a weekend worker and will follow what the magazines tell them to use as they have neither the inclination or knowledge to change. Educate both clergy and musicians is the only imperative.
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  • DavidOLGCDavidOLGC
    Posts: 106
    kevinf 8:27AM
    .....
    I have not ordered from GIA (and OCP) since 2000 and do not plan to order from them at all. One does not "need" them to run a music program.


    Unfortunately, I am concerned that in a number of years when it's time for our current pastor to be moved to another parish that his replacement will want to go back to using OCP and/or GIA materials. If that happens, I suppose I'll have to go back playing guitar rather than organ. ( Sigh )
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  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 347
    Someday there will be a Museum of Liturgical Horror, and we need to preserve content.


    I was recently cleaning out a sacristy and squirreled away a couple of drawers worth of pottery vessels and polyester chasubles with chunky outer stoles. I can envision someday doing an exhibit of liturgical styles from the past and the 1980s will be an important--if not particularly beautiful--era to have represented.
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  • francis
    Posts: 10,911
    I have already rescued at least a dozen LU's that were to be disposed of and put them back in circulation. One of them has been restored (restitched with a new cover).

    Today's homework for all modernists. Read the following.

    Psalms Chapter 2

    Quare fremuerunt.

    The vain efforts of persecutors against Christ and his church.

    2:1. Why have the Gentiles raged, and the people devised vain things?

    2:2. The kings of the earth stood up, and the princes met together, against the Lord, and against his Christ.

    2:3. Let us break their bonds asunder: and let us cast away their yoke from us.

    2:4. He that dwelleth in heaven shall laugh at them: and the Lord shall deride them.

    2:5. Then shall he speak to them in his anger, and trouble them in his rage.

    2:6. But I am appointed king by him over Sion, his holy mountain, preaching his commandment.

    2:7. The Lord hath said to me: Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee.

    2:8. Ask of me, and I will give thee the Gentiles for thy inheritance, and the utmost parts of the earth for thy possession.

    2:9. Thou shalt rule them with a rod of iron, and shalt break them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

    2:10. And now, O ye kings, understand: receive instruction, you that judge the earth.

    2:11. Serve ye the Lord with fear: and rejoice unto him with trembling.

    2:12. Embrace discipline, lest at any time the Lord be angry, and you perish from the just way.

    2:13. When his wrath shall be kindled in a short time, blessed are all they that trust in him.
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  • oldhymnsoldhymns
    Posts: 237
    I had an interesting experience today, and I am glad I had an opportunity to read this thread just prior to the experience! I went to an organ concert at 12 noon in a very large Congregational Church (large in terms of structure, not membership). They have an historic 1911 Skinner organ with 3 manuals and 1555 pipes, and once a month or so they have an outstanding organist do a concert at 12 noon.  As the concert got underway, I picked up their large red Congregational Church Hymnal, which, to my great surprise, is co-published by GIA (no mention of Gregorian Institute of America) and the Congregational Church!  The letters GIA and their respective emblem is plastered throughout the publication. I guess, though, it proves the point that GIA is no longer Catholic, as such. I went through it, page by page, and was very surprised to see such "popular" hymns (songs) as Eagles' Wings, Be Not Afraid, and to my great surprise--You Satisfy the Hungry Heart! By the way, they sang two hymns at this event one of which was Martin Luther's, A Mighty Fortress is Our God. 
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  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,588
    GIA may present itself as not-really-Catholic or as serving Catholics, but they're still a member of the Association of Catholic Publishers, which means very little in practice except that Canon 216 governs this as both the National Catholic Reporter and the former employees of Church Militant can tell you!
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  • Liam
    Posts: 5,191
    Considering the post topic about US bishops and a putative national hymnal:

    One thing about Gifts of Finest Wheat (You Satisfy The Hungry Heart) is that it was the official hymn for the 41st Eucharistic Congress held in Philadelphia in the summer of the US Bicentennial, and the USCCB promoted its inclusion in all US Catholic hymnals for a long time, if my memory is serving me well.
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  • francis
    Posts: 10,911
    ugghh... My heart was never hungry for the wheat in that hymn. Just sayin.
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  • contemporaryworship92
    Posts: 285
    This article is almost completely wrong about what's wrong in the Catholic music industry. The discussion about OneLicense "controlling" Catholic music is non-sensical and most likely reveals that the author has never used OneLicense.

    I know that almost everyone reading this already knows this, but for anyone who is uninformed, OneLicense allows its subscribers to legally print ALL songs that are copyrighted by all member publishers of OneLicense, which includes OCP and GIA, but also includes a wide array of other publishers including Catholic Music Initiative, Hal Leonard Corporation, Hope Publishing Company, International Liturgy Publications (ILP), Troubadour for the Lord Music, and many, many others (see: https://onelicense.net/publishers). This wide library allows you to use nearly every copyrighted work of liturgical music for a single fee. OneLicense isn't perfect, but anyone who has access to it can program pretty much any music they want without being stuck with the contents of a single hymnal.

    I also think that complaining about the duopoly of OCP and GIA is ridiculously sour grapes. Why, for all the many deserved criticisms of their products for decades and decades, is there not a major conservative publisher of similar influence to OCP or GIA? Some of the answer might be the oddly anti-capitalist attitude demonstrated by the author of this article, who seems to think that making a fair living selling liturgical music is some kind of sin. In contrast, 1 Timothy 5:8 states that “The laborer is worthy of his reward.”

    Supposing that OCP and GIA are not selling what most Catholics want, there should be an excellent business opportunity for to raise startup funds from investors and launch a competing for-profit company with a better product lineup. Why is no one doing this?

    Edited to add: Source & Summit is sort of doing this but they didn't make the author's list of alternatives! (that being said, almost everything in the Source & Summit missal is either a public domain hymn, or is their in-house English chant propers, which is essentially the only copyrighted content Source & Summit gives you access to)
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  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,122
    author of this article, who seems to think that making a fair living selling liturgical music is some kind of sin.


    If I were running my creative life as a business, I probably wouldn't write liturgical music at all. I've made some money from prizes and commissions, but aside from that, my total income would be dwarfed by the BMI check from ONE concert music performance. And if I did, it would all be in English, accompanied, and in 2 part homophony. I'm having this argument with my Muse right now, and she doesn't want to listen. But she's a woman of ill repute and will do all kinds of things for money. I'm sitting on a guitar Mass right now, if anyone is interested.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,982
    ugghh... My heart was never hungry for the wheat in that hymn. Just sayin.
    you were pining for the gift of finest meat.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 2,982
    The discussion about OneLicense "controlling" Catholic music is non-sensical and most likely reveals that the author has never used OneLicense.
    Not exactly. To your point that other publishers are included, this is true. But it is (at least imho) objectively a scandal that many of the things we are required to use for worship are behind paywalls. Publishers could, if they wanted to, grant licenses to reprint certain things to those who have purchased their physical products. The usccb could, if it wanted, release the official translations of the psalms, or the lectionary, into the public domain, or at least permit free usage with proper attribution and no changes to the text. But they don’t. The irony is that now, they actually DO keep these things under lock and key, an ironic twist, since this is one of the old medieval canards about how the church used to “keep the Bible under lock and key!”
    Thanked by 6DavidOLGC Liam hilluminar CHGiffen LauraKaz mattebery
  • Here's a routine reminder: Be grateful for improvements, even if you wish they were bigger.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    I always found the solution to bad hymn singing is to play louder. What do you think those reeds are for?

    Thanked by 1tandrews
  • MarkB
    Posts: 1,110
    The article has some inaccuracies, as contemporaryworship92 pointed out.

    A parish can buy hymnals and not need OneLicense if the hymnals will suffice and the parish doesn't podcast liturgies. If the parish prints supplementary handouts or projects music to screens and does so with copyrighted music, then a OneLicense reprint license is needed; a podcast license is needed to livestream with copyrighted music. That's not double-dipping by the publishers; that's appropriately charging for uses beyond opening and singing from a hymnal.

    I use OCP and GIA copyrighted music less and less each year. Most of what I use my parish's hardbound OCP hymnal for are the public domain hymns in that volume. I don't use any OCP or GIA Mass settings anymore. I use Fr. Anthony Ruff's psalm collection, which I purchased digitally with a lifetime reprint license.

    We project music and podcast, and my weekly OneLicense reporting often only requires reporting two or three titles. Usually that's Ruff's psalm, sometimes the Alleluia, and maybe one copyrighted song.

    OCP's and GIA's dominance is the result of decades-long marketing and parish inertia. Someone else above stated that the vast majority of parish music directors don't know anything other than OCP and GIA music because that's what they grew up with. They believe OCP and GIA music simply are what liturgical music is, and they happily select from the publishers' officially recommended songs each weekend.

    Bishops need to step it up and make well-celebrated liturgy a diocesan priority, which includes formation for music directors in a better paradigm for music at Mass.

    I don't think there's a cabal controling the music sung at Mass. Nobody forces any parish to use OCP or GIA music.

    I do think there is a very corrupt Catholic music publishing industry that is benefitting from and taking advantage of its near-monopoly on Catholic liturgical music. But that near-monopoly is the result of lazy purchasing habits on the consumer end of the equation; it could change rapidly by a widespread alteration in parish consumptive behavior.

    A much better article getting at the same thing was Jeffrey Tucker's "The Hidden Hand Behind Bad Catholic Music":

    https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/the-hidden-hand-behind-bad-catholic-music

    That article is over fifteen years old by now, but it explains well how OCP has designed its musical ecosystem to make it convenient for parish music directors to rely exclusively on OCP's products and music.

    If you've never read that article, I recommend it.
    Thanked by 6CHGiffen Liam DavidOLGC LauraKaz hilluminar mattebery
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,588
    Bishops need to step it up and make well-celebrated liturgy a diocesan priority, which includes formation for music directors in a better paradigm for music at Mass.


    Yeah, but we have got to make it the propers and the Latin ordinary as it was in Phoenix with Matthew Meloche and Bishop Olmsted. Mostly-English propers with an occasional Latin proper (and never ever the melismatic propers after/between the readings) won’t cut it. The love of brass and timpani (things like the Chepponis Festival Alleluia) will not cut it. In fact, that particular piece could have been held up as an example by Dr Mahrt even more than the triple Alleluia antiphon in mode 6… the “cathedral style” is not my aesthetic preference precisely because it rejects what the church wants above all.

    Our bishop does not sing his parts and won’t by and large do any of the orations etc. in Latin. However, he has decided that in visiting us, he is more than happy to ask us to sing Mass as we normally do (unfortunately, getting him to just sit in choir at the TLM is not happening). So we do the full introit (yes, with the doxology and repetition; our pastor did this in the monastery and just wants us to not worry about things), the gradual and alleluia or tract, the offertory, and the communion. Gregorian ordinary and some of it in polyphony too (Byrd for Four Voices is a favorite here), including Credo III. He’s a very prayerful man (this is obvious if you observe him at benediction) and you know, occasionally reminding a bishop that the Mass is prayer above all by singing the propers, and drawing everyone to contemplation does not hurt.

    This is not how Mass is sung at the cathedral or at the pastoral center. I don’t mean to be, well, a pain about this. It is far easier said than done, but a better four-hymn sandwich where the propers are occasionally exchanged for a hymn, hymns of better quality than in your average parish since the mid-1960s or even before, is not what we should want!
    Thanked by 5francis LauraKaz CHGiffen ServiamScores rich_enough
  • francis
    Posts: 10,911
    The usccb could, if it wanted, release the official translations of the psalms, or the lectionary, into the public domain, or at least permit free usage with proper attribution and no changes to the text. But they don’t. The irony is that now, they actually DO keep these things under lock and key, an ironic twist, since this is one of the old medieval canards about how the church used to “keep the Bible under lock and key!”
    lol... this is so true... the text of the Mass (OK... its only the new mass) but locking up the text to charge parishes is just plain simony.
    Thanked by 3a_f_hawkins ServiamScores DavidOLGC
  • francis
    Posts: 10,911
    @ServiamScores

    Gift of finest meat… love it!
    But go ye rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And going, preach, saying: The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out devils: freely have you received, freely give. 9 Do not possess gold, nor silver, nor money in your purses: 10 Nor scrip for your journey, nor two coats, nor shoes, nor a staff; for the workman is worthy of his meat.

    Scriptural exegesis:

    “Don’t need money, don’t need heat, and I don’t need no wheels… But I DEF NEED MY BEEF!”

    This is my next mixolydian rock song comp for the megaChurch circuit… coming soon to a forum near you!

  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,979
    I was never fond of "Gift of Finest Wheat," but there is so, so much worse out there.
    Thanked by 4CHGiffen Liam DavidOLGC LauraKaz
  • Diapason84
    Posts: 94
    I was never fond of "Gift of Finest Wheat," but there is so, so much worse out there.


    Omer Westendorf (aka J. Clifford Evers/Paul Francis/Mark Evans) wasn't much of a poet.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • Fr. Jim Chepponis
    Posts: 221
    The love of brass and timpani (things like the Chepponis Festival Alleluia) ...rejects what the church wants above all.

    Really? I'm not aware of any church documents discouraging the use of a festive Gospel Acclamation when appropriate.
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