Singing seasonal Marian Antiphons
  • Guidry
    Posts: 2
    My priest would like to sing the seasonal Marian Anthems. He'd like to do them year-round following the traditional alignment with the different liturgical seasons. Anyone care to share share at what point in the mass would we sing this? His idea, to begin, is to sing it as the recessional during Advent. He hopes that the assembly hearing this lovely chant (hearing = they will not likely sing) would help to change the old habit of the assembly bursting out into conversation at the end of mass. (I normally play an organ recessional, but he wants to follow the practice of having more reserved organ music during Advent, which I could still do but, hey, having a bit less to prepare weekly during Advent sounds good too!) Any thoughts on this? I'd like resume playing organ recessionals after Advent, so** at what other point during the liturgy would it be most effective to sing it?** Thank you!
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,055
    For most of the year, only at recessional.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,445
    We have a Lady chapel half way down the side of the church and on occasion have a pause during the recession to sing something marian outside it, such as the appropriate antiphon.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • GerardH
    Posts: 445
    If you're already in the habit of an organ recessional, why not do both? The Marian antiphons aren't usually long enough to cover a full procession, except for very small churches
    Thanked by 3Liam tomjaw LauraKaz
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,083
    I've only ever seen this done as part of the recessional, usually right before the recessional hymn. The antiphons aren't part of the Mass, so doing them outside of the Mass and after the Ite seems indicated. Otherwise, I think you'd have to do them as part of the offertory or communion music.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • OMagnumMysterium
    Posts: 234
    Our custom is everyone sings the antiphon with the priest while he stands in the sanctuary, and then at the conclusion of the antiphon he processes out and the recessional is sung.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw rich_enough
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,317
    The way this is typically done, in my experience, is:
    --Blessing and Dismissal
    --Marian Antiphon while sacred ministers get themselves arranged for the recessional
    --Organ while they recess

    I think it would be very appropriate to make the organ recessional very subdued during Advent.

    In case you're not sure:
    --Alma Redemptoris Mater is sung from the first Sunday of Advent until the Feast of the Purification on February 2 (the original ending date of the Christmas season)
    --Ave Regina Caelorum is sung from after Purification/February 2/Candlemas until the Triduum (no Marian antiphons are sung during the Triduum)
    --Regina Caeli is sung from Easter Vigil through Pentecost Sunday
    --Salve Regina is sung from the day after Pentecost Sunday until the first Sunday of Advent, when you repeat the cycle, beginning with Alma Redemptoris Mater again
    Thanked by 2tomjaw LauraKaz
  • MarkB
    Posts: 1,060
    At my parish, I decided to introduce the seasonal Marian antiphons during the purification of vessels following Communion.

    In Advent, Christmas, Lent, and Easter, the proper antiphon is chanted every Sunday. In ordinary time we chant Salve Regina on the third Sunday of the month, and Ave Maria on the first Sunday. On other Sundays there is silence during the purification of vessels.

    I'm not thrilled with that approach because I don't think those antiphons actually belong at Mass, but my parish doesn't celebrate compline -- which parish does? -- so unless we sing the Marian antiphons at Mass hardly any Catholics will ever hear, learn, or sing them.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,762
    In England it is traditional to have the seasonal Marian Anthem after Mass, Vespers etc. It is done as at Compline, i.e. Priest intones, choir sing Anthem, V & R then Prayer.
    Thanked by 1a_f_hawkins
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 605
    .
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,055
    FWIW, the rite of Communion is very much not the place for them on an ongoing basis. (If you want something Marian for Communion: use the Magnificat.)
    Thanked by 2a_f_hawkins CHGiffen
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,204
    Our custom is everyone sings the antiphon with the priest while he stands in the sanctuary, and then at the conclusion of the antiphon he processes out and the recessional is sung.


    We do this with the versicle snd collect. I feel cheated when those are omitted. Our priest does not let us start early during the Last Gospel. He feels that it’s important to pray them. They are not appropriate for communion as Liam notes.

    We also do them when the priest is more or less in place. He lets one (or more) of the musicians intone however.

    Also, the other place for them is after Lauds or the last hour said in choir and after Compline. The 1960 rubrics leave only after Compline as an obligation. I include the antiphons in a booklet for Sunday Sext that I made and will continue to make to get us through the liturgical year.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Magdalene
    Posts: 14
    For the past three years we've been singing the Marian Antiphons during the purification of the vessels as well. I know it's not the best time so I do wait until the tabernacle has been closed. Maybe that doesn't make a difference, but it seems a little more fitting at least to wait until then. It's a bit of a rush to fit the Salve Regina in that time frame, but our priest enjoys singing the last portion with the choir, so he is supportive of it.
    Thanked by 2irishtenor CHGiffen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,466
    You might find this booklet/leaflet with the seasonal Marian antiphons helpful.
    Thanked by 3Liam CHGiffen irishtenor
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,083
    the GIRM forbids solo organ music during Advent (as well as during Lent and at requiems).

    Arguments I've heard:
    "It''s after the Ite, so it's not at Mass"
    "They're going to jabber anyways, and at least the organ helps cover it up."

    I'm not evaluating these excuses. But GIRM-compliant Masses are fairly rare in any season.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 272
    the GIRM forbids solo organ music during Advent (as well as during Lent and at requiems).
    What it actually says:
    In Advent the organ and other musical instruments should be used with a moderation that is consistent with the season’s character and does not anticipate the full joy of the Nativity of the Lord.

    In Lent the playing of the organ and musical instruments is allowed only to support the singing. Exceptions are Laetare Sunday (Fourth Sunday of Lent), solemnities, and feasts. (313)
    Certainly, it's praiseworthy to observe the traditional practice of organ only to support singing, silent organa, cum silet cantus, even during Advent; cf. Musica Sacram:
    The playing of these same instruments as solos is not permitted in Advent, Lent, during the Sacred Triduum and in the Offices and Masses of the Dead. (66)
    Our custom here is to sing the antiphon during the Last Gospel followed by silence when organ solos are forbidden, otherwise an organ postlude. As a rule, we have a recessional hymn only when there's Benediction after Mass or for some extraordinary occasion when "Holy God, We Praise Thy Name" seems appropriate, such as Confirmation or the first Mass of a new priest.

    Your people need to be instructed not to carry on conversations in church, period. If they don't respect a recessional hymn as part of the worship enough to remain in place until it's finished, then better to dispense with it.

    EDIT: I think Liam and I were posting simultaneously.
    Thanked by 2trentonjconn tomjaw
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,055
    Just to be clear, the GIRM does *not* forbid solo organ music during Advent - it calls for it to be used with moderation:

    GIRM 313, in relevant part:

    In Advent the use of the organ and other musical instruments should be marked by a moderation suited to the character of this time of year, without expressing in anticipation the full joy of the Nativity of the Lord.

    In Lent the playing of the organ and musical instruments is allowed only in order to support the singing. Exceptions, however, are Laetare Sunday (Fourth Sunday of Lent), Solemnities, and Feasts.
    Thanked by 1trentonjconn
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 605
    I stand corrected, gents. For whatever reason I had it in my head that the Lenten rubric applied word for word to Advent as well which, as y'all point out, doesn't seem to be the case. Mea culpa.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,204
    I wish that we could abolish hymns and could get nice postludes.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
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