What hymnal do you recommend for a TLM community?
  • FSSPmusic
    Posts: 286
    If singing in alternation, it looks like there's a range of a ninth for the congregation, fa to sol. You could pitch it at sol=D, but your schola will need a range of B to E, and the celebrant needs a solid low B too. Raising it a half step (which is where we do it) is the upper limit of the baritone range. I suppose it's possible. I've never attempted it as a congregational chant and probably won't, but I commend those of you who have had success with it!
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,329
    The problem with Mass IX is twofold from my perspective: it's infrequent, and the range is tricky. It's OK at the 10:00 Mass on Sundays or holy days where it's a Saturday or public holiday. It's not so OK in the morning (hello, Rorate Mass) or evening. I'd go for X actually, if my priest was able to intone it, at the Rorate Mass.

    However they sing the rest of Mass IX with no problems so long as we nail the transition from the first Kyrie to the second; this is also one Mass where I not only prefer alternation schola-congregation, I prefer the women to take the lead. That solves both the second Kyrie and the "suscipe deprecationem" in the Gloria. I'll say, it took years of listening to the Fontgombault Assumption CD before really getting it, as I rarely had the opportunity to sing Mass IX in the wild; Marian feasts at my old parish always meant polyphony for the Gloria…

    Also, Patrick's being a little modest. I couldn't make the full sung/solemn Mass, but it was nice to have a sung Mass (reduced propers, but you could easily do full propers in theory) instead of just low Mass when I was in the area this spring. I also happen to agree re: the Kyriale in particular the ad libitum chants and some of the Masses for double feasts… there's a reason that not even Solesmes has them in the regular rotation (as far as I am aware).

    The usual I, IV (less usual but it's the default for Holy Thursday in the old books, and is really lovely), VIII of course, IX, XI, XVII, and XVIII (and the special Kyrie pro defunctis) plus or minus one or two Masses make sense not only because you'll cover all of those days with Sundays, holy days, and Ash Wednesday or All Souls, funerals etc. but because with some practice, a congregation can come back to them even somewhat infrequently (IX in particular). I think that X, XII, and XIII are all wonderful options but you have to choose, for example, between a Gloria with a hard incipit (X, XII) and repeated ascending fifths for those singing (XIII); by its nature, a Kyrie with the same leap is easier if the congregation is habituated to parroting the previous strophe, which is normally identical.

    Also, our schola has the fun task of shepherding a very strong congregation with Ite XI. "But Matthew, it's so easy, and you do it the most often." Well exactly, it's just that the syllabic division is unusual if you compare it to the others, and they don't listen to us, they follow the minister (priest or deacon) who may sing "I" as La-Si flat-La-Sol (what you'd expect from the other Ite chants) instead of La-Si flat, which is what is written.
    Thanked by 2FSSPmusic Liam
  • Palestrina
    Posts: 422
    Fair point re the Gloria of Mass IX, FSSP Music…

    A few points in response from me:
    1. Congregations seldom seem to complain about straining upwards in their annual rendition of ‘Hark! The Herald Angels Sing’, which is done so often in G because of the ubiquitous Willcocks arrangement.
    2. There’s nothing to prevent a pastorally-minded choir director from using the Gloria from Mass X instead.

    Looking through the Kyriale, I wonder why there is only one Mass provided for Sundays during the year but a plethora of them for just about any other feast or eventuality… An unintended hangover from the pre Pius X rubrics?

  • Palestrina
    Posts: 422
    Upon reflection, given that most Sundays are feasts of the II Class in the 1962 Missal, there is plenty of scope to use the Mass settings provided for those feasts.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,329
    We did IV on Sundays for a while to learn it.

    The ICRSP in Orléans is willing to do just about all the settings because they want to expose the faithful to all of them. They still avoid V, VI, and VII, but they mix it up with XII and XIII in particular.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,098
    "Congregations seldom seem to complain about straining upwards in their annual rendition of ‘Hark! The Herald Angels Sing’, which is done so often in G because of the ubiquitous Willcocks arrangement."

    A. It's a very familiar tune, from saturation over time, and people retain a good pitch memory of it.
    B. It's usually the recessional rather than the processional. People who sing will have more of a chance to be warmed up. At midday and evening, even more so; in the first half of the morning, much less so.
    C. One can do something other than Willcocks. One could also play in F.

    Thanked by 1FSSPmusic
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,784
    Looking through the Kyriale, I wonder why there is only one Mass provided for Sundays during the year but a plethora of them for just about any other feast or eventuality… An unintended hangover from the pre Pius X rubrics?


    Well Mass XI Orbis Factor IS the Mass for Sundays after Epiphany and Sundays after Trinity / Pentecost historically... Of course by the time you add in various feasts, and octaves you are hardly singing it the c. 30 times a year it could be sung.

    Of course you could sing something else..., most of the assignments in the Kyriale appear to be made up around 100 years ago, the 1903? Kyriale does not have the same assignments.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,832
    Of course you could sing something else..., most of the assignments in the Kyriale appear to be made up around 100 years ago, the 1903? Kyriale does not have the same assignments.
    Yes... you can even mix and match movements from Mass to the other taking mode or mood into consideration.
    Thanked by 3Liam WGS tomjaw
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,784
    Our children's choir sang Mass IX today, they did a very good job with some help from a couple of adults. They will sing it next month for Rosary Sunday.