My recommendation would be to start the treble choir as mixed. You'll likely get a larger number of girls than boys, but with enough of a mix you'll be able to build a large enough group that they'll experience successes in a short period of time. Then, as you perform standards tests and boys begin passing, you can divide them up by gender.

It will be a tough battle, but well worth the effort. The unfortunate reality is two-fold: our culture doesn't actively promote the participation of boys in serious musical endeavors, rather favoring pop-culture experiences over more sophisticated ones, and boys unfortunately have a shorter "shelf life" than girls, unless you want to figure out how to incorporate changed and unchanged voices into your program. Boys are maturing much earlier than they used to, and many boys begin to show signs of voice-change at a younger age, sometimes as young as 10 or 11. Girls can continue singing "through the change" without much difficulty, and often the older girls act more maturely than the pre-change boys do, unless you really lay down the law. Also, boys really do respond to a bit of healthy competition, and will surprise you at how quickly they rise to otherwise counter-cultural challenges.

The other thing you may experience, although the culture in the North East seems to be more conducive to boy's choirs, is a major conflict between sports and music, especially with the boys, but more and more with the girls as well.

If I may suggest an excellent model: The boys' and girls' program at St. Paul's on the Green, Norwich CT (here: http://www.stpaulsnorwalk.org/compline.html). Vince Edwards, though and Episcopalian (with Episcopalian sensibilities), is a consummate master at building programs of this type. His website is a great place to gain some ideas about marketing and structure that you could easily adapt to a serious-minded conservative Catholic parish.

Good luck and congratulations on your ambitions!

My experience with boys' and girls' choirs--fairly extensive--suggests strongly that the genders should be kept separate for rehearsals, if not always for singing in church. If the boys' group is not separately constituted, it will seem like a 'girl thing' and attract fewer boys than otherwise. Similarly, boys are often not willing to use the full strength of their treble voices around girls until they feel confident, something that happens best in separate rehearsals. We need, also, to revisit the understanding of choir singers as operating as vicarrii in choro--trained singers standing in as chanters for priests. Of course, only males can fulfill this role and only males should ever be vested in any form of actual liturgical vestment, including cassocks, surplices, albs, etc.

How to convince the pastor --- point out that these boys mostly are those whose parents will encourage and continue to support them in their activities and interests. These boys will be in sports and Scouting and school work and other activities which compete for their time, but they will take an interest in music and the liturgy and eventually delight in knowing that the gentlemen of the choir can not function without the trebles. "You know, Rev. Father, these are just the boys who might consider the possibility of having a vocation to the priesthood or religious life."

I concur with those who suggest beginning with only boys or only girls in separate choirs. Either group can sing beautifully, but I think it is well attested that in a mixed choir of children, boys will lose interest at about the time they are beginning to blossom musically. I think you will find that you treat boys differently than you would girls, and the two groups will respond differently. -- nothing to the discredit of either boys or girls or the director.

Eventually, you can add the ATB voices to the boys (or girls) occasionally and then regularly as the treble voices become more competent. As the years go by, quite often the treble boys will "graduate" to ATB, but that's a different issue.

I also agree that you should look into the RSCM programs and find an opportunity to observe directors using their methods.

Good luck and best wishes.

While RSCM choral training methods and materials represent the gold standard for working with treble choirs, the organization's on-the-ground activities need to be approached with great caution by Catholic musicians. Catholic choirmasters themselves could gain a great deal of insight from seeing individual RSCM choirs and the organization's legendary summer courses in operation. On a strictly musical level, these training courses can be as inspiring as some aspects of the CMAA colloquium. Unfortunately, Catholic children should be kept strictly away from most RSCM activities, which are largely Episcopalian events and thus liberally populated with ladies dressed as priests and other distressing liturgical and ethical situations common in latter-day Anglicanism. There are individual RSCM-involved parishes which might be appropriate sources of inspiration and models for Catholic choristers, but directors would need to exercise careful judgement.

For choir-to-choir contacts, festivals, and diocesan activities, Pueri Cantores would be the organization of choice for Catholic treble choirs. They are far more active on the west coast and parts of the mid-west than in the east, unfortunately.

Thank you very much.

By the way, does any one else detest the [American] Idea of having mixed children's choirs where very little attention is payed to teaching our children to sing well and more emphasis placed on being "cute" for the ego inflation of their parents?

(Sorry for the interruption, but, yes, it seems that Mrs. Elizabeth Regina Smithe-Smythe-Smith's head has just completely burst after haven been inflated to new world record proportions by the superfluous praise and congratulations of numerous parishioners after her child's [who didn't really want to be in the choir in the fist place] gut wrenchingly cute debut solo of "Simple Gifts", out of tune in four different keys, none of which were the key the organist was playing in. Congratulations Mrs. Smithe-Smythe-Smith on this incredible new world record!...And now for something completely different.) (Apologies to Monty Python.)

All best wishes for your success. I was asked, nearly 20 years ago, by a aging parish priest to form a choir of boys and 6 professional male adult singers at an RC parish on the far northwest side of Chicago. This priest, a wonderful man, had been in a boys' choir in his youth, and genuinely wanted to have that experience available for the boys in his parish and its school. To cut to the chase, the parents of the new boy choristers, as well as the priest in charge, were 110% behind what I was doing, but not enough preparation had been done within the "politics of the parish" to get the other parish priests, the organist (female, feminist, and 100% oriented towards Haugen et al) and others on board with the idea of one Sunday mass using older traditional music. So, the program didn't really stand a chance. There was also a female "pastoral assistant" (a wanna-be priest) who basically had the priest's ear and was only halfheartedly supportive of this new choir, so there was a bit of power struggle thrown in too. I soon realised that no matter how this choir turned out, there would be angry people! After 1 year, the 12 boys and men were singing very well together and the parents were thrilled for their sons to be singing, as one of them said "the old, glorious music again", but nevertheless I was told that this new choir "is simply too divisive for this parish", and my contract was not renewed. Many disappointed parents, as you can imagine. One told me: "this choir is the first and only thing my son has been really into!" Moral of the story: do your homework, plan carefully and make sure as many people are behind your choral goals as possible. Even if parents and priest are behind you, other people need to be convinced too, or you might face the struggles I did over that year. I reckon that now, with the advent of the TLM and places like St John Cantius Parish in Chicago leading the way, things might have turned out differently. I can only hope so.

BruceL:

I assume all-volunteer. There are a number of 'people-in-charge' who are, well, cheap! There may be some remuneration for the men, but probably not much. If the choir sings at weddings there will be some payment for the men and the boys, of course. I've heard stories of Cathedrals having to cut back on the choir because of financial issues, and I don't want money to be a reason for the 'powers-that-be' not to support this project.
I don't want the boys and girls to sing together, and neither do the boys and girls. We have a choir that is almost all women with two men: myself (tenor) and a bass. I'd rather have the girls sing with them, and explore S(S)A(A) music. That way both choirs will have their own repertory and be equal but different.