In general children can get lost in the moment much better than adults. They don't know how to think it through as we do, so they can just take in the experience of the chant.

Kids aren't dumb, it's the grown-ups who are.

There is no one more bored by a "children's liturgy" than a child; it's the cringe-y adults who like it.

From somebody who is still a “kid” (16) I cannot agree enough with the comments. I have tons of Catholic friends who are very heavily influenced by today’s culture but it when it comes to the Liturgy and its music, they know what it should sound like and that it should be as sacred and traditional as the Church can offer. Beautiful liturgies are what inspired me to bring that to others (or at least try).

Mr Wood, congrats on getting a “proud father moment”.

...the grown ups who are...

Spot on!!!
And most 'grown ups' like their children to be as out to sea when it comes to worship as them.

well, if you have read any of my posts and threads on the matter, then you know i am 110% for treating children as 'little adults'. how many young saints has the church reared in its history? and it all comes from a hearty helping of religion.

Here is a very interesting revelation which I read the other day from the Little Manual of the Holy Face as it was spoken to Sister Mary of Peter... think of what our religion used to be and what it is today...

Our Lord, moreover, made her see that the Church, His spouse, is His mystical body and that religion is the face of His body, which face, at the present day, is a target for the enemies of His Name. "I saw," said she, "through this illumina­tion, that the impious, by proffering evil words and blaspheming the Holy Name of God, spit in the Face of the Savior and cover It with mud; that all the blows given by sectarians to the holy Church and to religion, are a renewal of the numberless blows which were inflicted on the Face of our Lord, and that these wretched men make the brow of this august Face, as it were to sweat, by striving to annihilate His travail."

This makes me think twice before I ever think wrong about our most Holy Catholic Faith as it was handed to us down through the centuries. We do not want to spit in our Lord's face by disfiguring his 'religion' which is the face of the bride of Christ.

I remember some of the craziness of the late seventies being justified by saying, "we are doing it for the young people." There was a fear that if the liturgy was not 'updated," the youth would leave. It was never a surprise to me that they left anyway.

Kids aren't dumb, it's the grown-ups who are.

There is no one more bored by a "children's liturgy" than a child; it's the cringe-y adults who like it.

This church synod thing is going on through parishes in my Diocese and someone at my table suggested she would like to see us bring Mass down to Children’s levels with children’s music, and language that children will understand. I really had to hold my tongue and fight the natural impulse to roll my eyes. I hated that stuff as a child and liked the chant at Mass. I hate how the only sung parts of Mass now are the Ordinaries. Why can’t we at least chant the preface and the Roman Canon?

We now have about 20 children in our Latin Mass choir. They have no issues with the Latin or the chant…just reading three digit numbers when it comes to finding page numbers in the hymnals…Latin Mass problems.

Surely in 'this synod thing' the appropriate response is to state your own experience of hating trivial ditties when you were a child.
Sponsa - a chanted Roman Canon is a big task for a celebrant, and of course only the celebrant(s) may sing it. Traditionally it was/is forbidden for the words to be spoken so as to be audible to anyone but the celebrant.

TBH, I don't see what the particularly big deal about changing the canon is (which is to say, I don't understand why people say it is so difficult). It is formulaic. All you need to do is learn a few cadential formulas and not drift too far from the reciting tone. It's not as though it's through composed and changing throughout.

I had the experience in the late 60's, while still a Protestant, to take a youth choir on at a Baptist church. I had a nice group of kids, four parts, regular attendance, etc. They would sometimes whine a little bit about the fact that I used mostly solid sacred church music, but we tackled some fairly difficult material successfully. I left the post after a year, but met the music director at that church later and he told me that he had resumed the diet of gospel music and "contemporary Christian Music" that they had used before. About half way through the program year the singers requested some of the music "that John had us sing while he was here". Kids aren't stupid. They do require exposure, though.

The chanted anaphora, and especially the Canon, was rare in the 1990s…

Not in my city it wasn’t. We used to go to several different parishes and it would be the same everywhere. Then something happened when I was in high school that Mass wasn’t sung anymore and it seemed to get shorter.

Matthew,

I don't know where Sponsa's bubble is, but I must have encountered a displaced version of it in North Carolina, where one priest of my acquaintance prided himself on singing the "Eucharistic Prayer", and having it accompanied by the organ......

I have heard the canon sung twice; once by Bishop Lopes of the Ordinariate, another by a priest who was singing the OF. In completely sung liturgies it only makes sense. If the mass itself is not sung in toto a sung canon would stand out like the sore thumb; If the entire liturgy is sung then speaking the canon would stand out like that same sore thumb.

I have sung it once, for about two hundred priests in Oklahoma who were attending a workshop of chant and liturgy. It was very well received and I was even asked to 're-sing' parts of it for greater familiarity.

Our pastor chants the canon very regularly (especially on feasts at the 11am). He is very musically literate, however, and a season subscriber to the local philharmonic. (Makes working with him a musical pleasure.)

We have the canon chanted every week by our pastor.

Salieri,

[Trying to rescue the idea of Kid-friendly-liturgy, half-heartedly]:

Surely, you know, that child is just an anecdote, not actual data?

Ah, but the plural of anecdote is data and we have multiple anecdotes in this thread. I would say that is data.

Indeed.

Of course there will be some younger people who like chant, and find it spiritually enriching. In the same way there will be some who don't. And some older people who do, and some who don't. That's just people. And God's revelation isn't restricts to any one style or culture.

Naturally, people will gravitate to place where their spirit is nurtured. So you will hear appreciative things from the people in your place. And equally naturally your own children will say things they know you will like.

I've been working with some ethnic minority kids. Not gonna say exactly where or what mix, but their home-background culture didn't do "the 60s" at the same time western countries did. Their choir was set up by a traditionally-minded curate: he left, I inherited. I've tried hard to keep some of the material which he taught, but THESE kids aren't buying it. Where they are emotionally and spiritually, they are receptive to stuff that most of you despise. Trying to force traditional hymns or Latin on them would fail, they'd be quickly in the nearest pentecostal church. So the aim is teach them that there are many styles of music used prayer, that it's good to pray with what works for them now - but we expect them to keep learning more things as they mature.

And God's revelation isn't restricts to any one style or culture.

No, but the Church does say that Chant has pride of place.

We had this gem sung at our church’s English Mass.

https://youtu.be/CJ9-toxYm1M
I was feeling inspired to go make a difference by suggesting something more appropriate. To the MD’s credit, he switched it out for Holy God We Praise Thy Name at the Mass I attended in person, but left it for the livestream.

I have come to classify a great deal that comes from the "Church" environment as "popular religion" and it has taken over much of the religious landscape in what I used to think was just the US, but it has become a worldwide phenomenon. For a long time it was confined to more Evangelical Protestant groups, but it has spread to the mainline Protestants some time back. I'm afraid that this has taken over a growing corner of the Catholic landscape as well. It comes with a popular approach to music, continues with an almost "pod cast" manner at the altar, and is very focused on young people. Although it is a caricature, I'm reminded of the "Church of What's Happening Now" in Sweet Charity and the "Rhythm of Life".

I suggest that we need to focus on a few basic things.
1. Young people are not the Church of tomorrow. They are a part of the Church of right now!
2. There needs to be a time when our young people grow away from children's music and become acquainted with adult music. When does that happen? Has anybody been where the youth program concerned itself with this issue?? The MD often has a fight on his hands when he tries to do it.
3. Much of the music that kids are expected to like and that many insist must be given to them "is not good for them".
4. It could be asked as well, "Why are so many of the adults in our pews so enamored of the same music that they tell us the "kids" want?" It seems that they were never weaned, which may explain some of the above.
5. To what extent is the type of focus on our youth actually teaching them to be self-centered and lacking in some of the Christian virtues we should be fostering in them?

I suggest that the Catholic Christian life should be taught as significantly different life than the typical American life. We should question the obviously flawed hiring practices by which youth directors, DRE's, and Catholic school teachers are chosen. It has been a mystery to me to see Catholic schools making the state teaching certificate the most important credential. How about being a sincere Christian with actual expertise in an academic discipline?

Well, I'll get off my hobby horse or what some might think is my high horse for now.

It has been a mystery to me to see Catholic schools making the state teaching certificate the most important credential. How about being a sincere Christian with actual expertise in an academic discipline?

Not even the state should emphasize this so much.

Sponsa,

Knowing how to teach is, indeed, important.
Having a state certificate doesn't actually mean that a person knows how to teach. If the program (for example) has a section on gender inclusivity or all sorts of other buzz-word stuff, the person with the certificate may not know anything about actual teaching, but only what the state has crammed into his head so he can finish the state licensing program.

Did you mean to imply that the SSPX schools are knuckle-dragging, anti-intellectual cesspools, or did that just come over accidentally? [I'm not a member of the SSPX, nor am I an attendant at their Masses, except once in the last 15 years.]

Some of those schools operate without much in the way of oversight and do pretty much as they please. I kept teaching certificates for some years when I was actually teaching. I quit keeping them current when I retired since it wasn't worth the expense and time for the coursework required for recertification. Certificates do not necessarily make you a good teacher. If you want to teach successfully you need knowledge and a good heart.

Stimson,

You're not describing a pedagogical approach, surely, but the effects of people who shouldn't be teachers actually teaching, or trying to do so.

Because of your credibility on this issue, let me ask: do you mean that the behavior you've described (and seen described) is unique to the SSPX schools?

They do expire and require periodic university course work to keep them in effect.

I'm pleased to see the purple!