Qualities of a Great Music Minister: What Are They?
  • achoyce91
    Posts: 95
    I'd absolutely LOVE feedback on this subject because I was planning on becoming a music minister. To give y'all (Texan) something to go off of I'm quite reserved. However, I have led successful music ensembles in the past and definitely think I can do it again. I've also been in a church choir playing percussion parts as needed and occasionally singing bass. My audition is coming up on April 22nd so I'd, once again, LOOOOVE some feedback.

    God bless!
    - Alex
  • MarkB
    Posts: 824
    Catholic faith (assuming it's a Catholic parish)
    Prayer, a deepening personal spiritual life
    Musical competence
    Upright personal moral life, in good standing with the Church
    Knowledge of Catholic doctrine
    Knowledge of Catholic liturgical documents
    Familiarity with the Church's tradition of sacred music
    A good sense of what's good and bad in Catholic liturgical music today
    Good judgment in evaluating the quality and suitability of new music
    Knowledge of the Mass and the liturgical year
    Interpersonal skills, ability to inspire and motivate
    Flexibility, willingness to work under the pastor's direction and to compromise
    Willingness to learn what you don't know and to change your mind when wrong
    Organizational skill
    Cool headed, patient
    Good judgment in knowing what a choir or parish is or isn't ready for
    Willingness to work hard
    Willingness to bear your cross
    A vision for parish liturgical music that aligns with the Church's directions

    Good luck, Alex!
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,018
    I think to add detailed comment to MarkB's list of desiderata we need some idea of what the role is in the particular place/parish.
  • achoyce91
    Posts: 95
    I think I would need the most help with the "nitty-gritty," hard-work side of things. However, I think that I am mainly haunted by composition, which I thought Christ was leading me to do. I had, and still have, A LOT of passion for composition. Neoclassical Stravinsky and The Golden Age (I'd consider) of English music comprised of Vaughan-Williams, William Walton, and, most of all, Herbert Howells. Composition really wore me out. Unlike Stravinsky, who was more in love with the act of composing than performances, I am the complete opposite. I love the final product and really have a difficult time being "at peace," as Stravinsky would say, with the process of composing.

    My question would be how do I prepare for the "nitty-gritty" of music ministry without losing peace? I cannot lose my peace, no matter what. I'm auditioning to get my Masters in Sacred Music at the University of St. Thomas April 22, but want to know how to experience the more difficult aspects of music ministry before I choose to dive in.
  • MarkB
    Posts: 824
    One nitty-gritty thing you need to be aware of before committing years and thousands of dollars to a masters degree program and accruing educational debt is that you will probably never be paid a decent professional salary if you work in parish music ministry, and you will very likely struggle to make ends meet, especially if you need to support a family. So if you commit yourself to this ministry, commit yourself with the knowledge and expectation that you will have economic hardship for much of your life.

    You will not have job security, which will add to stress. With a change in pastor will likely come a change in musical priorities that could undo what you had spent years cultivating.

    You will be unappreciated and underappreciated more than you will be appreciated, but some will appreciate you. People will tell you what they don't like about what you do more than they will tell you that they like what you do.

    You will work every weekend, major holiday, and some weeknights each week, which is not family-friendly. It cramps the ability to have a social life because you will work when everyone else has off.

    It is more difficult than ever to recruit choir members because the church is losing young people and schools have cut music education programs and classes, so fewer people have much musical literacy or singing skill. Pastors might judge you negatively for not having large choirs, when there are cultural factors that contribute to low interest in joining choir.

    Not to sound negative, but it's a hefty dose of reality. Not everyone is cut out for this ministry. Perhaps very few are.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,649
    As I read in the AGO magazine this month, the definition of an optimist is an organist with a mortgage.

    If you are in a Catholic parish, you may find the pastor wants top-notch music without spending any money on it. Music programs are often not well funded, sometimes not funded at all. What Mark says about a new pastor undoing all your work is true. I have often said it takes one week to destroy a music program. Go work for the Protestants who often treat their musicians better and provide better salaries, benefits and retirement programs.
  • achoyce91
    Posts: 95
    I have to work in a Catholic Church. The social predicaments don't really bother me. However, I'm quite selective about the music and am, admittingly, socially awkward, which would definitely affect everything concerning my position as a music minister. Yeah... this is probably why my priest/confessor hasn't responded to email requesting a letter of recommendation. Thanks Mark and Charles! This really helps.
  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 330
    I've also been in a church choir playing percussion parts as needed

    I’m hope you mean timpani and not tambourine and congas

    You will work every weekend, major holiday, and some weeknights each week, which is not family-friendly.

    So marry someone who will fit with this and raise your kids to become holy church musicians. Easter and Christmas are eight days long. More people work weekends now than you think, and you do get to take vacation time. Furthermore, if you like camping, the best time to go is during the week when everyone else is working.
    Thanked by 3Carol CCooze Steve Q
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,813
    I was planning on becoming a music minister.


    Per me si va ne la città dolente,
    per me si va ne l'etterno dolore . .
  • achoyce91
    Posts: 95
    @SponsaChristi I played cajon... you get a better bass tone than the congas lol but I did sing in a Bach Choir, church choir, and college choir. Also, I don't mind working Holiday's if I know if it's for Mass. SponsaChristi, do you have experience as a music minister?
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 1,654
    I don't mind working Holiday's if I know if it's for Mass.
    You say that now…. Lol. You’ll likely have a different opinion when your wife falls asleep with the infant and you are wrapping gifts at 2:30am on Christmas Eve after getting home late from midnight mass exhausted, knowing all the while you have to be back by 7am for the early morning mass.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW RedPop4
  • TCJ
    Posts: 814
    Having worked for churches for the past sixteen years, I can honestly say I appreciate having a convenient excuse to avoid all the parties, family events, etc., that I really don't want to attend anyway. My personality is suited for avoiding people. So for some, all the weekends, evenings, and holidays spent at work ends up being a blessing and particularly appreciated.
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  • achoyce91
    Posts: 95
    I might just mention I'm gay to get the whole wife and kids thing out of the picture. AND I do adhere to Church's doctrine on celibacy. @TCJ
    My personality is suited for avoiding people.
    THAT is EXACTLY my natural temperament. Maybe I'm built for this.
  • MarkB
    Posts: 824
    You can avoid people by being an accountant. You can't avoid people as a music director nor succeed as a choir director without at least average social skills. Choir members need to be affirmed and nurtured. You described yourself as socially awkward. I'd consider that a significant obstacle to succeeding in an occupation in which leadership and motivating people are crucial to growing and maintaining a music program. Choir members are almost entirely volunteers. If they aren't enjoying the time they spend with you, they will quit choir.

    Being socially awkward, you could succeed as an organist or other type of instrumentalist if someone else managed the people and the program and all you had to do was practice on your own then show up and play for rehearsals and Mass.

    Music director is not a people-avoiding position. It is very much a people-oriented position.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,673
    Being a sociopath.

    I think this is supposed to be purple.

    Or is it?
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  • SponsaChristi
    Posts: 330
    do you have experience as a music minister?


    I don’t use that terminology, but yes, I have experience as a church musician.

    might just mention I'm gay to get the whole wife and kids thing out of the picture. AND I do adhere to Church's doctrine on celibacy. @TCJ
    My personality is suited for avoiding people.
    THAT is EXACTLY my natural temperament. Maybe I'm built for this.


    Not to get too technical here, but it’s not just celibacy (celibacy simply means not getting married), it’s the Church’s teachings on chastity that need to be followed. I’m assuming that’s what you mean, but it’s important to be clear.

    I do know of one long time Catholic Music Director/Organist who is still working for the Catholic Diocese where I grew up, but he was also a full time high school teacher at my high school, and taught private organ lessons on the side. He didn’t refer to himself as “gay” (this is NOT Catholic terminology. The Church uses “same sex attraction” and doesn’t use it as a label to identify people. We are not who we are attracted to sexually. We are all Beloved Children of God”), nor did he ever mention it to students. In fact, he kept a photograph of a woman and children on his desk at school. We knew something was odd because when he spoke about his family, the names kept changing. My mom was a teacher and knew him personally, so that’s why I know.

    You will be fighting an uphill battle with the current issues and scandals in the Church today. I’m not against people with same sex attraction working in public ministry in the Church so long as they are actually following what the Church teaches (I feel the same way about people who don’t have same sex attraction, btw), in agreement with it (not just following it begrudgingly) and aren’t actively causing scandal (again, I feel the same way about people who don’t have same sex attraction).

    Also, music ministry isn’t the place for people who want to avoid people. You can’t just lock yourself up in the choir loft for 30+ years. You will have to interact with people, attend meetings, deal with people in the pews, brides, brides’s mothers, Parish Council, pastors, deacons, children, etc. People skills, next to musicianship skills are more important than a Master’s. If you make people mad and step on the wrong toes, you will be out of a job and lose your reputation.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,649
    Love people or hate them, you will have to get along with them and be able to work with them. I know I sometimes felt in my years as a DM/Organist exactly like W.C. Fields said, "I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally."

    Choir singers can be touchy, take offense at the slightest things, and have to be stroked and soothed the right ways to keep them singing. Otherwise, they quit. Directing a music program is definitely a "people" job. We don't even want to go into the subject of childish and spoiled priests.
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  • achoyce91
    Posts: 95
    Y'all's comments help A LOT.
    Choir singers can be touchy, take offense at the slightest things, and have to be stroked and soothed the right ways to keep them singing. Otherwise, they quit. Directing a music program is definitely a "people" job. We don't even want to go into the subject of childish and spoiled priests.

    I have pretty severe social anxiety @CharlesW and I've noticed gossip and plenty of glares when attending rehearsal in the past. @SponsaChristi thank you for clarifying terms for me. @TCJ you seem to be the only one who doesn't stress the importance of being able to be people-oriented. This does not seem like a good career path for me. Thank you all for the insights.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,649
    It could be a career for you if you could pair with another musician who could give you some backing and support. In secular jobs I have supervised, I tried to get people who could make up for my deficiencies and it worked out well.
    Thanked by 1Bri
  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 438
    I would suggest that you need to be all right with moving around the country, and having no permanent hometown. My father is an engineer, and has lived in the same city his whole life. He stayed in his first job out of college for thirty years, and has been able to live comfortably and support his church generously.

    I, on the other hand, have filed income taxes in five states.

    Finding a FT job means looking nationwide for a parish that A) is paying enough for you to live within commuting distance of the organ loft, B) wants the kind of music you do well and can tolerate, C) wants someone with your credentials, D) has reasonable and achievable expectations for you and doesn’t expect 90 hours a week for 10 hours’ pay, E) has resources and a track record which suggest what they want can actually happen [cf. jobs where “chant and polyphony is the cornerstone of the pastor’s vision”, but he’s been there three days, everyone hates him, and the choir is five angry old hippies, F) seems to be healthy and stable, G) happens to be hiring when you need a job, and H) likes you better than the other candidates. Then, once you’ve moved, next year the bishop may close your parish, send you a terrible priest, the finances can fall apart, etc. and you do it all again.

    An MM is nothing like a CDL or an MD or some other credential that will let you find work at any time in any town you please. Location takes the back seat.
    Thanked by 1Elmar
  • TCJ
    Posts: 814
    @TCJ you seem to be the only one who doesn't stress the importance of being able to be people-oriented. This does not seem like a good career path for me. Thank you all for the insights.


    That is correct. However, I find social interaction with groups of people to bearable for short periods of time (like two hours for choir practice) but I also find it exhausting and I need to get away from people for a time afterward. I am somewhat socially awkward, but I have also developed the ability to adapt in cases of necessity. My choir is quite aware of my peculiarities and all of us have a good laugh over mine (and theirs) at times. We are an oddball group and everyone seems to appreciate each other. Having a family of my own and also having experience teaching has helped me overcome some of the awkwardness.
    Thanked by 2Bri Elmar
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,649
    I told my students before I retired, go ahead and study music. But also get a secondary degree in something others will pay you for doing.

    and the choir is five angry old hippies


    I think I have met those old hippies.
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 1,654
    One other thought:
    You have to have thick skin to a degree. I mean this in two ways: the first and most obvious is the fact that some people will always complain about your ministry and won’t shy away from making sure you know they disapprove. I’ve even had people write to the bishop about me (had to do with my bulletin column, but that’s a story for another day). The other is that working with priests isn’t a walk in the park either. That is to say, as colleagues, you get to see their more human side. There’s no rose-colored conception of music ministry. PiPs show up on Sundays with rose colored glasses on and it’s lovely for them. This illusion bursts pretty quickly once you’re employed by the church full time. Sometimes the church isn’t the best at taking care of its own, and that can lead to resentment. I rather cherish a certain period where I was between jobs. It was hard at the time, but it was also a tremendous blessing.
    Thanked by 3CharlesW Elmar RedPop4
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,040
    Be prepared for disappointment and disillusionment at every corner, from everyone, all of the time.

    Also be prepared to live at or under Federal poverty levels, while using your own personal money (such as it is) to buy music for the choir, because the parish finance people don't understand why the parish should pay for something that only ten people in the parish use.

    I am not a people person, and I consider myself to be somewhat socially-awkward, and there are some people who[m] I like to be with, but on the whole I prefer sitting at home with my cat, enjoying a 'cuppa' and listening to Beethoven. That said, I can deal with people for the duration necessary: Masses and choir rehearsals, but when I get home, especially on days like the Triduum, I need to be left entirely alone for at least an hour (no phone calls, nothing) in order to decompress. I am lucky that I live in New England, where people are generally cold and stand-off-ish, so I can also go for a long walk around town without seeing anyone, and if I happen to bump into anyone, we just scowl at each other and nod our heads; the only problem is with some of the new people who have moved in from other parts of the country: they don't understand the local etiquette of "the frozen chosen".

    One thing, I think, that has kept me where I am, is that because I play for daily Masses, 98% of the time that I am at the church I am alone in the loft with my chant and organ books, and just go about my job of accompanying hymns and ordinaries, cantoring the propers, and playing voluntaries, completely undisturbed by anyone. And I often make a point of arriving before anyone else, and leaving after almost everyone has left.

    It's important to find the right position for you. I enjoy (such as it is) my position, because there is no "emoting" that I need to do: Just "sing the black and do the red", if you will. I know that I couldn't work in a position where the choir is in the front (except in a monastic-style "quire" with stalls and a surpliced choir), and where I/the choir were expected to "emote" and "make things personal".
  • achoyce91
    Posts: 95
    Sorry, anybody here from Texas? Specifically Houston area? These comments are pretty negative. I always see openings in the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston and Gather hymnals are provided at every church I've been to. I'm sure some of y'all may be "EWW!! Gather hymnal!" but I think it's fine. Definitely not as pretty as Pange Lingua, but pretty enough for me to feel comfortable with it.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,845
    If you aim to serve a TLM parish, the dynamics would be quite different than what many have posted here.
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  • achoyce91
    Posts: 95
    Thank you, @francis
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 1,654
    Gather hymnal doesn’t have anything to do with it.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,845
    I should clarify that the music is all right out of the LU and every liturgy is predetermined. This makes it very simple when it comes to vying opinions. There is very little opinions can alter. Therefore, strong personalities tend not to cause issues... it can be a significant dimension to personnel management. Also, divas will not be as much inclined to participate since the nature of the music has nothing to do with “performing” as opposed to blending in with the scola/choir.

    Your personality type is a separate issue, but the overall “spirit” of a job would be quite different.
  • achoyce91
    Posts: 95
    @ServiumScores Yeah, I'm quite flimsy personality-wise. That might be the deciding factor here. The Traditional Latin Mass is VERY uncommon in Texas @francis I initially thought the ''T" in "TLM" stood for Texas lol. We are primarily protestants in Texas and so Catholic liturgical music shifts more towards pop influences.
  • achoyce91
    Posts: 95
    There is one TLM parish in Houston though lol. And by "TLM" I mean "Texas Loves Music." We do have remarkable high school bands and orchestras, however.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,649
    There is the Anglican Use Ordinariate in Houston. Jackson, who posts here, is part of it.
    Thanked by 2achoyce91 RedPop4
  • ServiamScores
    Posts: 1,654
    I worked for a priest who didn’t want anything remotely echoing traditional liturgy, and he treated me like crap. That’s why I’m saying that just because they use gather hymnals and aren’t trad oriented doesn’t mean it will be a good job. Bad priests are still bad priests, regardless of liturgical context. (Although I suspect you’ll be treated better by more traditionally oriented priests. At least, this has been my experience—all within the novus ordo realm, mind you.)
  • achoyce91
    Posts: 95
    @CharlesW I'm pretty set on Catholic though. Thanks nonetheless.
  • trentonjconn
    Posts: 340
    The Ordinariate is Catholic, just FYI!
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,845
    The ordinariate is... new.
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  • achoyce91
    Posts: 95
    @ServiamScores , We have an F.S.S.P. parish and it is very nice. I think I made it seem I valued "pop" Liturgical music over "serious." Quite the opposite.
  • achoyce91
    Posts: 95
    @trentonjconn I'm sorry! I just looked up what an Ordinariate is. Well! Isn't that neat!
    Thanked by 1trentonjconn
  • NihilNominisNihilNominis
    Posts: 786
    I should clarify that the music is all right out of the LU and every liturgy is predetermined. This makes it very simple when it comes to vying opinions. There is very little opinions can alter. Therefore, strong personalities tend not to cause issues... it can be a significant dimension to personnel management. Also, divas will not be as much inclined to participate since the nature of the music has nothing to do with “performing” as opposed to blending in with the scola/choir.


    Very funny, francis. Very funny. If only this were anything at all like my experience...
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,845
    If only this were anything at all like my experience...
    Are you providing music for a TLM?
  • achoyce91
    Posts: 95
    I do notice a whole different level of sanctity of people attending the Tridentine Mass.
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  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,040
    [Off topic: I misread the above comment as saying: "I do notice a whole different level of sanity of people attending the Tridentine Mass." Which made me chuckle a bit, having known some of the eccentric people who attend the TLM in my area.]
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,813
    Francis -

    I know for a fact that Nowhere Man provides music for a TLM at his parish (as well as for the Other Mass), but even at the TLM-only parishes I've been involved with, my experience has been similar to his. Music at a TLM is by no means "predetermined". Even setting aside the whole polyphony vs. chant argument [and don't forget Baroque masses, including ya favorite boi Mozart!], there's the issue of whether or not to have vernacular hymns during a Low Mass, or organ alone, or nothing at all. (It's even better when you have the priest who has a habit of switching to a Low Mass ten minutes before it begins, after you've been rehearsing all week.) You also have the full Gregorian vs. Rossini vs. Tozer vs. recto tono propers decision to make. Even within the LU, you get into issues when you bring up that most adorable of arguments, the "pre vs. post 55 Holy Week" Debate, which is a can of worms I have absolutely no desire to open right now.

    And divas are by no means absent from the older form. Their displays of expertise are much more subtle. I remember, at my old parish, the priest actually stipulated that descants on hymns were forbidden, as singers stuck out too much. Cantors were eventually forbidden to intone because 'either all voices sing or no voices sing'. (Even though it was just men singing for the propers, and women were exempt, but hey, that's their prerogative.) I've had people leave my choir because we didn't sing Taize anymore; I've had people storm out of my choir because we didn't sing RoSewig anymore. The Divas you always have with you.

    ahoyce - You are right that there is a different level of sanctity of TLM goers. But I've also been blessed to know people involved with the TLM (a rather famous priest, nonetheless) who tell you that you have to burn your Disney pajamas, so you can see the demons emerging in the sparks of the flames as testament to their Satanic possession. It brings out the best and the worst in people. So, I agree with Francis that the TLM is one of the greatest treasures given to us by God. But it cannot be expected to be the cure-all for all of our problems.
  • [Off topic warning]
    Wait.... wait.... who buys Disney pajamas in the first place?

  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,813
    For children.
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  • achoyce91
    Posts: 95
    [Off topic] Who knows the Catholic teacher Matthew Leonard and his Science of Sainthood? It's pretty amazing and St. Teresa of Avila's 9 Grades of Prayer series is on his website for free. It's no joke.

    And thank y'all for the previous posts.
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,601
    Gosh, it makes me unpopular in the US, but I'd be OK with some Taizé chants, and yes, our parish has moved to full propers for all but Lent I and maybe Holy Week (not the paschal vigil, since we sing so many similar tracts during the year but we may shorten one of the tracts on Palm Sunday and Good Friday — maybe!). Our current Leader™ agreed with me, that in the spirit of compromise, we'd do the first two and last verses of the tract for Lent I in chant, then use the introit psalm tone for the intermediate verses, and he told me after that while he was singing, he realized that he had made the wrong decision, but we made strong personalities happy this year, so next year we can do the full one. Our monthly Vespers is sort of my baby, so I don't mind going out of my way to make sure that we do things nicely, but I need to know things in advance (luckily the pastor was three steps ahead of me in expressing our shared preferences, so I know the goal). Another debate would be Assumption and August 22, which is not something that I really want to discuss either, but we need to know in advance what office to sing on August 21, because most of us don't have the proper Magnificat antiphon of the new feast, and the organist needs time to study it so that she can prepare the accompaniment. For the Assumption, trads more or less all know the classical Marian hymn of Vespers, and we have accompaniment ready… but if not, we need to prepare!
  • achoyce91
    Posts: 95
    @MatthewRoth I'm thinking you might be in the wrong discussion? I don't recall all of that being discussed.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 9,845
    Music at a TLM is by no means "predetermined".

    I stand corrected... I meant to say the TEXT is predetermined which DICTATES the music.
    Even setting aside the whole polyphony vs. chant argument
    I don't have an argument there... I enjoy both as both we should.
    and don't forget Baroque masses, including ya favorite boi Mozart!]
    Which baroque masses are you referring to? (and I would never put Mozart in the baroque era)... I do have issues with orchestral Masses... anything that distorts the liturgical sensability is questionable... I know. I know... it's a subjective call in some respects, but heh... some liturgies just have way too much music... no silence... and need to make ample room for the organ (preludes, postludes, improvs, etc.) I truly believe very few find the perfect balance of music to not.
    there's the issue of whether or not to have vernacular hymns during a Low Mass, or organ alone, or nothing at all.
    Low Mass... in my mind, no vernacular. You could have an entrance and recessional in vernacular I suppose. We do that. That does not bother me... the vernacular hymns I employ are only the best 150 of all time with distinctly Catholic theology. That doesn't bother me at all. Of course, THAXTED gets programmed often at TLM's... something I could do without.
    (It's even better when you have the priest who has a habit of switching to a Low Mass ten minutes before it begins, after you've been rehearsing all week.)
    This has nothing to do with a TLM... this is just inconsiderate clergy. Haven't had much experience with that.
    You also have the full Gregorian vs. Rossini vs. Tozer vs. recto tono propers decision to make.
    If you can't technically perform one, then perform the other... just don't 'dumb down' the ability to do the utmost!
    Even within the LU, you get into issues when you bring up that most adorable of arguments, the "pre vs. post 55 Holy Week" Debate, which is a can of worms I have absolutely no desire to open right now.
    Yea... an issue, but... see final comment.

    And divas are by no means absent from the older form.

    Diva's strictly not allowed! Straight tone or straight to the door.
    Their displays of expertise are much more subtle. I remember, at my old parish, the priest actually stipulated that descants on hymns were forbidden, as singers stuck out too much.
    I totally agree! NO soloists in the choir!
    Cantors were eventually forbidden to intone because 'either all voices sing or no voices sing'.
    The intoning should be done by the best choral voice(s).
    I've had people leave my choir because we didn't sing Taize anymore;
    Don't "Taize" me bro! (can't stand the stuff personally) I would not accept Taize at a TLM.
    The Divas you always have with you.
    The Diva be with you... and also with you... (NOT WITH ME!)

    The long and short of all your arguments are actually hardly anything compared to the bombastic errors in music allowed in non TLM music programs... believe you me... I can easily live with the options of any TLM any day as compared to the horrendous mistakes of those who want their own flavors, styles and preferences including rock, folk, jazz, P&W, etc. all the way out to the liturgical dance of the REC.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,649
    The Divas you always have with you.


    I had a diva who worsened with advancing age. She didn't know that, however. My first diva encounter was at an early age at La Traviata where a 300-pound Violetta wasted away from TB over several acts.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,601
    See Stimson’s comment.