Cantus In Angustiis (Chant In Times Of Tribulation)
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    I am assembling a little book of chant [Everyday Simple Chants] (4-6 signatures (whole sheets of paper that fold) which comes out to be 16-24 pages) and want to include the Litany of Saints. In the GABC version, the appeals to each saint are not listed... what is the best way to include them, and is there a standard LOTS that would be for daily use as opposed to the one for the Vigil?

    Josh started a thread with some of the content that I hope to include.

    What other chants should be in a book that would be for family and personal use, especially during these times?
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 1,868
    @ francis The long version is used for the Rogations. If our Bishops had a bit more Faith or even knowledge of the Faith, they would be doing these!

    If you look you will see the Saints are in a rank Order,
    BVM
    Angels
    Patriarchs and Prophets (So any you want to add would come before that invocation)
    Apostles and Evangelists (So any you want to add would come before that invocation)
    Disciples
    Martyrs
    Popes and Confessors
    Doctors
    Priests
    Monks
    Virgins and Widows
    All Others...
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 2,057
    Am I right in recalling that additions of particular saints should be in the appropriate section and inserted in order of their date of death, rather than at the end of the roll call?
    [UPDATE] see https://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/comment/10912#Comment_10912
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    thanks for the info @tomjaw

    1 . Do you have the GABC code for the pdf you posted?

    2. Also, is there a rubric for singing (or not singing) the LoS in private... in your living room with your family or friends? :) If it permissable to do so, how would you add or delete to the pdf which you posted to be fitting for such an event?
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 1,868
    @a_f_hawkins

    Well you could do it like that, but the Benedictines modify their Litanies to put St. Benedict before St. Anthony and then add in St. Maurus & Placid, they add St. Scholastica after St. Anastasia. Edit the new rules appear different to the new rules for adding Saints.

    Sorry I did not produce it in GABC, it is typed in the Font Caeciliae. It is an Apple Pages document.

    There is no problem to sing this Litany in private, I think it is only the Litany as used in the Vigil and at Candlemas that has the extra invocations that are sung by the Priest.

    To add things I would go back to the original and add them by typing in the extra Saints.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 2,057
    francis - Traditionally there are no rubrics for the conduct of the faithful at a liturgical event, let alone in private.*semi-purple*
    SRC apparently made its usual efforts to stop people changing one jot or tittle, see the end of this article.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    Here is an initial rough (very rough) of what I am putting together. Comments, thoughts, critiques, suggestions, additions, deletions, etc. are welcome. Pagination is not in place... just initial content. All translations will be included.

    (old file removed, new file further down in thead)
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 831
    Very nice francis. Please let us know when it is completed, so we can download it and sing it!
    Thanked by 1francis
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    Which other chants should we include? Should I make an English counterpart for those who would prefer?
    Thanked by 1bhcordova
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 831
    If you can. I would appreciate and enjoy being able to do both.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    I can... but which Haagen and Haas tunes would you like me to apply to the prescribed texts? (JK) It would be interesting to know the best music suited to these texts in English. It might prove to be a true challenge to find some. Also, would you like the Latin translation at the bottom so the trads know what your actually singing? :)
    Thanked by 1bhcordova
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,338
    Francis, in the booklet title, is the grammar right? "Cotidiana", which looks like a feminine form, doesn't correspond to "cantus" (m). Is it supposed to be treated as a substantive on its own?
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    Good catch... we need a Latin expert to chime in! Would you know the correct title?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,338
    For a booklet of this scope and range: that is, an informal anthology or sampler, as opposed to a systematic collection, I think an English title might be more apt.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    Another title would reverse two of the words to

    Cotidiana Cantus Simplex
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    I will offer both English and Latin Covers so the user can choose which cover to print.

    (old file removed, new file further down in thead)
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 831
    I like those covers Francis!
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,394
    In English, I thought "cotidian" is better and more commonly rendered as "quotidian" or "quotidien"). And I even recall "quotidiana" as being the word used in one of the Latin graces before meals at the Graduate College at Princeton University.
  • WGS
    Posts: 244
    I, too, feel more comfortable with "quotidian" in English, but I have researched it online today, and it is clear that "cotidian" is the official Vatican preferred spelling for Latin.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,394
    Vatican vs. academic ... okay, fair enough.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    I am a musician, artist, craftsman and never had the time to pursue languages, so I rely on those around me for translations. I used to have my good friend at WCC, Prof. K handle all translations for me, but we are in different circles now.

    So, what is the BEST title in your opinion(s)?
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 873
    And I even recall "quotidiana"


    It is used as such in the Our Father... "panem nostrum quotidianum da nobis hodie.."
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    Cotidian Cantus Simplex

    or

    Quotidian Cantus Simplex

    or

    ?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,338
    While we're all at home, studying Latin is a great idea!
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 873
    If "every day" is used as an adjective to describe the type of chant, I think it would use the same case endings, wouldn't it? Perhaps Cantus Quotidianus Simplex?
    I may be way off. I've only been having to use my Latin skills with my elementary-aged child, recently.
  • Incardination
    Posts: 833
    ... panem nostrum quotidianum...

    I would think Cantus simplices quotidiani for "Simple Daily Chants" OR "Daily Simple Chants" / with songs as an alternative to chants.

    Song / chant is 4th declension; daily is 2nd declension; simple is 3rd declension if I'm reading correctly. (the online dictionary indicates 1st class and 2nd class for the adjectives - ?)
    EDIT: nominative plural for all three

    But... I certainly defer to someone more capable in Latin!
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    Wow, yall. This is quite fascinating. I am not a linguist, but coming up with an appropriate title is certainly a lesson in Latin for me.

    Cantus Simplices Quotidiani is a nice 'less formal' title as Chonak was hitting at earlier.

    and

    Daily Simple Chants is a great English compliment.

    If anyone objects or has other suggestions, I will probably use these.

    Thanks Incardination, and thanks everyone for your input.
    Thanked by 1Incardination
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,394
    I've tried to recall the GC graces, a few of which I had once memorized when I had to offer grace in Procter Hall at dinner. I think one of them went, more-or-less, as follows: Pro pane et potu omnibusque vitae beneficiis quotidiana, gratia tibi agimus. Amen.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 2,628
    co/quo

    It could also be a distinction between E.F. and O.F. The old Missals, etc., (1965 and prior) all use 'QUOtidianum', the new Missals, etc., (1969 and following) all use 'COtidianum' in the Pater.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CatherineS
    Posts: 490
    Perhaps include a song for Saint Joseph? and/or Saint Michael/Archangels?

    I love the content otherwise. I'd love to have a Latin copy. Where possible it is useful to have Latin/English (like you show in some examples, where the English can follow the given melody rather than needing a different melody).
  • CatherineS
    Posts: 490
    Do you know the little prayer "Sancte Gabriel cum Maria, Sancte Rafael cum Tobia, Sancte Michael cum caelestibus hierarquia, sit semper nobiscum in via." I might have mangled the spelling, as I also know it in Portuguese and learned it by ear. It's easy to write a little tune for (I made up a version to sing). It's a great little blessing to say when going out or starting the day.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    @CHGiffen

    Can you point me to the chants for the graces? Would be great to include them.

    @Salieri

    Interesting observation.

    Since the Latin is the tradition and the vernacular is the novel, I guess the suggestion of Incardination is best for both titles.

    @CatherineS

    Is there a common chant for SJ? Looking in the PBC at the moment… I don’t see anything there… really intending to stick to GC for the Latin version, although the English version could include hymns to reflect the same content since it will be nearly impossible to find a counterpart that mirrors the GC

    I have my own compositional chant to St. Michael, but if one was composed in GC that would be better.

    If anyone (Kathy?) has English versions that fit to the chant, that would be best. Otherwise, I suspect hymns are going to be the bulk of the vernacular version.

    @CatherineS

    I do not know the Sancte Gabriel cum Maria’… please send us your tune!

  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 4,394
    No chants for the Grad College graces - they were spoken before dinner in Procter Hall. My understanding is that the tradition ended sometime in the 1970s.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    aha... My dear CHG... can you offer us one composed with your own hand? In the spirit of GC?
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 1,868
    Benedictio Mensae,
  • Incardination
    Posts: 833
    I've always used this one which is the standard blessing, but I like the idea of something seasonal!

    Thanked by 2CHGiffen francis
  • CatherineS
    Posts: 490
    My best effort at writing down the Sancte Gabriel... please feel free to change anything you please! I did check the spelling with the friend who taught it to me, so I think it's correct now.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    progress file

    (old file removed, new file further down in thead)
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    @tomjaw

    That is so beautiful… did you put that together?

    Can you send a pdf that is 4.5” by any length?
    (GABC would be great if you have it)


    @Incardination



    Can you send a pdf that is 4.5” by any length?
    (GABC would be great if you have it)

    @CatherineS



    We should definitely include your wonderful Sancte Gabriel. I wouldn’t change a thing.
    (GABC would be great if you have it)

    ALL:

    I have Sibelius which does the modern notation OK If there is no GABC

    If you are able to provide GC on anything, GABC, of course is the easiest, (4.5” wide, font size 12, Spacing: Smith)

    using Illuminare Score Editor, export a pdf and send it over!

    http://apps.illuminarepublications.com/gregorio/

    LAYOUT

    I am thinking of providing independent page by page PDF files at the end, allowing the user to assemble the signatures of the book YOU want to make. In other words, I will put one or two selections on a sheet of 8.5x 11 and let you output the arrangement of pages... this might be confusing to the nominal self-publishing person out there, but it might be the best option for putting a custom book together choosing the pages that mean the most to your situation.

    I will offer an initial 4 signature book (not including cover), which will give you 16 pages of content in paginated order. However, if you choose to include more content, you can add signatures... (20, 24, 28, 32, 36, etc... pages)

    I will explain how to do that later once I post the files.

    This is OUR book, which all of you have contributed into. I am merely assembling and enabling the production from your computer and printer. Hoping I haven't confused you about the whole matter.

    In JMJ, francis
    




  • Incardination
    Posts: 833
    Francis, my first GABC project. :) If I had more experience with it, I would have provided the symbols for intonation vs. response at the beginning, and handled the line breaks differently.

    I don't know what you want me to send you - but here is the code from Ben Bloomfield's chant app:

    initial-style: 1;
    %width: 4.5;
    %%
    (c3)Be(h)ne(h)di(h)ci(f)te!(f.) Be(h)ne(h)di(h)ci(f)te!(f.) (,)
    Be(h)ne(h)dic(h) Do(h)mi(h)ne(h) nos(h) et(h) haec(h) tu(g)a(f) do(h)na,(h.) (;) quae(h) de(h) tu(h)ae(h) lar(h)gi(h)ta(h)tae(h) su(h)mus(h) sum(h)ptu(h)ri.(e.) (;) Per(h) Chri(h)stum(h) Do(h)mi(h)num(h) no(h.)strum.(f.) (::)

    A(g.)men.(h.) (::)

    Di(e)vi(e)num(e) au(e)xi(e)li(e)um(e) ma(e)ne(e)at(e) sem(e)per(e) no(e)bi(e)scum.(e.) (::) A(e.)men.(e.) (::)

    Let me know if you need something different...
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    @Incardination

    Perfect... I have included it in the pages.

    (old file removed, new file further down in thead)
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    here it is with translation

    what symbols for intonation would you like to include... i can put those in...

    (old file removed, new file further down in thead)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Incardination
    Posts: 833
    The first Benedicite is the one praying grace, the 2nd is the response of all. The person praying then sings the remainder; everyone responding amen both times.

    Not sure whether that warrants a V / R at the beginning or not...
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 873
    Just going through some thoughts as I look through this very neat undertaking:

    I don't know why, but I feel like Simple Daily Chants reads better? I get that it is referring to simple vs solemn - there's just something about it, though...

    I assume that all of the Latin chants will have English translations?

    Are you going to include Marian antiphons with seasonal directives?
    (I made this short booklet for our Latin Mass community)

    Are you wanting to include anything chanted in English?
    My kids have the Catholic Treasure-Box books, and they love chanting their Angel of God prayer to the Creator Alme Siderum, as is given on the back of the first book (though, we sing "ever this day be at my side," rather than "through all the day be at my side...).
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen tomjaw francis
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 1,868
    @francis

    I have taken it from a book scanned by Google (But it is not one book but a number of books and supplements that seem to have be bound together). It is part of the Harvard collection.
    'Cantus Varii, Romano-Seraphici' full title 'Cantus Varii in usu apud nostrates ab origine ordinis Aliaque Carmina in decursu saeculorum pie usu parta, Desclee, 1902.

    I think the page size is set to A4, I could tell it to print as .pdf at A5 size... will have to look at the options. I do not know what size google uses for it .pdf books
  • CatherineS
    Posts: 490
    I'll see if I can learn the GABC thingy. ;)
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 8,338
    A GABC tutorial is on-line at http://gregorio-project.github.io/tutorial/tutorial-gabc-01.html

    We also have a copy of Cantus Varii on the CMAA website (in the Resources page); that may be the same book tomjaw has found.
    Thanked by 1CatherineS
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 1,868
    @chonak

    There are 3 books titled Cantus Varii, (there may be more)
    They are,
    1. An Oratorian book (on Google books)
    2. The Google book mentioned above in the Harvard Library collection
    3. The one on the CMAA.
    Thanked by 2chonak CHGiffen
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    Today for me is a day of rest and will not work on the booklet today, but will resume tomorrow and try to get first edition (latin) on the thread by Friday.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • CatherineS
    Posts: 490
    Thanks to those who suggested GABC resources. I'll play with that tomorrow. It doesn't look too difficult. God bless you all.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,884
    I was finally able to jump into GABC a few weeks back and am glad to have the reason and the opportunity to do so. My thanks to the authors, coders, and to all who have contributed to gregobase and the tool of Illuminare by Adam.