Public Health
  • Simon
    Posts: 158
    Government in Netherlands and Belgium did not forbid public church services - they recommended it for larger public gatherings and the College of Bishops in each country followed the advice with their own recommendations to cancel services. Sorry for not making this clear in my earlier post.
    Thanked by 1PaxMelodious
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Rozanski (Springfield, MA) has canceled all Masses and parish activities.
  • Archdiocese of Toronto has just canceled public Masses. Didn't think it'd come to this in Ontario or in Canada at all seeing as the concentration has remained less severe than in other parts of the world... oh well. Not sure what I'm going to do for Mass now.

    In another note, Bishop Crosby of the Hamilton Diocese has issued this document.
  • Try the Eastern Rite parishes, or if there is an Anglican Use Ordinariate Parish nearby. Neither are part of the Diocese and are run by different bishops.
  • m_r_taylor
    Posts: 326
    .
  • TCJ
    Posts: 986
    Over here, schools and public gatherings have been canceled with the exception of Mass and the stations of the cross. I will continue to hold choir practice as long as Mass continues.
  • When disaster strikes, the Church must step UP, not BACK!


    Indeed. But what needs stepping up are the works of mercy, which can be done without spreading disease.

    If you think anyone is being overly dramatic, take a good hard look at what is happening in Italy. They've run out of ICU beds - now putting ICU patients in corridors. There simply aren't enough ventilators or staff to use them - doctors have to decide who to use them on. Etc.

    Pray with your hands by doing useful things.
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    @CharlesW, well, there's our Bishop, right on cue.
    How incredibly frustrating.

    Mass is still on, but he suspended reception on the tongue. We'll see how that goes at Latin Mass next week...
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    well, there's our Bishop, right on cue.


    You noticed nothing gets cancelled where an offering is taken? LOL
    Thanked by 3CCooze CHGiffen WGS
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    I remember the Trad days before V2 when the Catholic hospital never gave communion on the tongue for health reasons. That's not anything new.
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    @CharlesW , the argument that it's healthier to hand someone something is based on nothing. The more hands something touches, the more soiled or germ-covered it becomes. Common sense.
    And I will create a stink about this on Fb.
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259

    "They can still receive on the tongue, though?"
    "Always."

    "Some people insist, 'you must receive on the hand.'
    No priest has the right to demand that.
    And even no bishop has the right to demand, 'you must receive on the hand.'
    No, no. The faithful remain free to receive on the tongue..."

    Cardinal Arinze on Redemptionis Sacramentum
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap1KL2D5ae4
  • Schönbergian
    Posts: 1,063
    "Until further notice Holy Communion is to be distributed only in the hand. Those who prefer Communion on the tongue must understand that this practice puts the person who ministers Communion, the recipient, and the person behind them in the Communion line, and so ultimately the whole community, at risk." - Diocese of Hamilton

    I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    Both. [Willful] Ignorance abounds.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw CHGiffen
  • jefe
    Posts: 200
    The Corona Virus Scare is spreading very quickly. Well, there went our Compline series....at least with an audience. I sent this note out a couple hours ago to the 240 addresses on our mailing list:

    In response to the Corona Virus Scare, The Episcopal Diocese of Northern California has bade us cancel all church services that include large, closely packed gatherings, like Sunday morning services; Bible studies; Stations of the Cross; Morning Prayer, and Compline due to an abundance of caution.
    However, this does not preclude us from recording Compline with no audience and sending it out as an mp3. At the moment this looks like our path. The mp3 recording link may appear on our facebook page https://www.facebook.com/Trinity-Compline-Choirs-183931914983523/
    as we're still workiing out the details. To keep situational awareness, be sure to 'like' our page which will automatically keep you connected to the goings on.
    We need the healing balm and unique late night connection with the Almighty that Compline provides now more than ever.
    Thanks for your understanding.
    Trinity Compline Choir
    Voces Angelorum
    Illuminare
    Renaissance Man
    Amalgam
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    The advice is not to touch your face... So without hand cleaning opportunities just before Communion, Communion in the hand 'could' be deadly!
  • Pray with your hands by doing useful things.


    The Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is THE most useful thing, followed by prayer. Yes, we must corporal works of mercy, but not without prayer. It’s time stop living like Practical Athiests.

    I’ve created a booklet, Hymn and Prayers to Our Lady in Times of Pestilence and Disease. We will be using it after our Mass on Sunday and Inhave distributed it to other priests to use as well. I’ve attached the file below and hope to get it more use.
    Hymn and Prayers to Our Lady Pestilence Booklet.docx
    386K
  • CatherineS
    Posts: 690
    I swear my nose has never itched so much since I started making a concerted effort never to touch my face.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    Medical opinion seems to be that the virus is mostly passed by contact, and airborne transmission is minimal. I can sanitize my hands as I enter the church but after twenty minutes of intermittently touching the pew or seat (on weekdays) or those and the hymnbook for forty minutes (on Sundays) the effect of that cleaning on my hands will be negligible. My tongue on the other hand will be exposed only to some incoming air.
    In the OF it would be lawful, I think, for the priest to sanitize his hands after receiving the Sacrament and before distributing communion to the faithful. I conclude that receiving in the hand is much much more hazardous to my health. And I say that as someone who is perfectly happy to accept the norm in any community I regularly visit.
  • Drake
    Posts: 221
    Just got the word a bit over an hour ago ... all public Masses in my diocese have been canceled until March 30.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    the argument that it's healthier to hand someone something is based on nothing.


    This is all above my pay grade and I don't get to make those decisions. I usually don't receive when I am playing because I can't give communion the attention it deserves.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    Despite the Lenten fish fry being cancelled tonight, 50 brave souls did show up for Stations of the Cross and Benediction. Small crowd but it went well and I think we were all glad we came.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,827
    If I cannot receive on the tongue, I will reverently genuflect before the priest holding the host, receive a spiritual communion with head bowed and a simple SOTC, and then stand and return to my pew.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    We had people at Stations tonight, probably 75. We stayed away from one another and washed our hands when we got home.

    I do somewhat understand the cancellation of Mass in Toronto, there are quite a few cases and these things spike. We also have MANY people at our larger "mega-churches". What I don't understand is when the bishop in Northern Ontario cancels Mass. Rarely do I see more than 200+ people at Mass. There are no cases up there. And to cancel ALL daily Masses, even for churches where so few go to daily Mass, it seems a little non-sensical. Oh well.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • OraLabora
    Posts: 218
    Québec bishops have cancelled all public Sunday Masses and liturgies. Presumably sparsely attended weekday Masses are not affected. The government has banned all assemblies of greater than 250 people.

    The abbot of my abbey of oblation has decided to isolate the abbey from the public. All outsiders are not allowed in. A wise move: three monks are in their 90’s, many in their 70’s and 80’s, and several are frail with underlying health problems.

    And of course the choir I sing with has cancelled activities until further notice.

    Ora
  • oldhymnsoldhymns
    Posts: 229
    From the Diocese of Fall River, Massachusetts...

    http://stjohnthebaptistwestport.org/Coronavirus_Statement.pdf

    I thought it was odd that the four dioceses in this state (Massachusetts) are not all following the same regulations.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    The Archbishop of Boston doesn't legislate for his suffragan bishops in Fall River, Worcester, Springfield, Burlington (VT), Manchester (NH) or Portland (ME). He's just the metropolitan of the province.
  • oldhymnsoldhymns
    Posts: 229
    I know that....nevertheless, I thought it was strange that not all the bishops were "on the same page" with this issue (like they are on other issues) since the governor has given us a number of directives including the banning of public gatherings of more than 250 people.
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    Sadly, not from my bishop, who believes RS is outdated:

    “This office would like to clearly communicate that a parish cannot ban the reception of Holy Communion on the tongue, nor may an Ordinary or Extraordinary minister refuse a person requesting Holy Communion on the tongue.
    [Cf: Redemptionis Sacramentum 92. “Each of the faithful always has the right to receive Holy Communion on the tongue at his choice.”]”


    https://d2y1pz2y630308.cloudfront.net/12494/documents/2020/3/Further Considerations March 2020.pdf
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    If we accept the expert opinion of those who say that the transmission by the minister of virus particles between parishoners is about equally likely whith communion in the hand and communion on the tongue, that leaves open what seems to me much more significant, what is the chance my hands have been contaminated since entering the church?. The UK Government advice keeps stressing the importance of washing the hands before eating, I cannot do that after forty or more minutes of handling things between entering the pew and receiving Communion. Neither is it feasible for me to rise from my knees, or seat, without using the pew for support.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    Our parish keeps hand sanitizer in key spots so it can be used when needed. Also, the Deacon and priests have access to it before distributing communion. However, all this may be kind of pointless since none of us get to make the decisions as to how communion will be received.
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,165
    I can sanitize my hands as I enter the church but after twenty minutes of intermittently touching the pew or seat (on weekdays) or those and the hymnbook for forty minutes (on Sundays) the effect of that cleaning on my hands will be negligible.


    That's why I take my on missal and hymnal with me.
    Thanked by 1CCooze
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    It has just come out that the bishop has dispensed everyone from any obligation to attend tomorrow. Mass will still occur, but no one is required to be there. I'm going anyway even if I have to play for 10 people.
  • I keep a number of Clorox disinfecting wipes in my purse, and wipe everything down before I touch it. I also use them to sanitize my hands (leaves them rather parched, but trying to find hand sanitizer in this city, or the ingredients to make my own is like looking for a needle in a haystack.) Fortunately, my lack of copious sanitizing during past flu seasons (I haven’t had the flu in 16 years and don’t get a flu shot) has left me well stocked for this ordeal.
  • Carol
    Posts: 856
    Archdiocese of New York has cancelled Masses for this weekend too.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,510
    As of now my my entire state has tested a grand total of 183 people.
  • Kathy,

    My province has test 5648 people approximately, with 29 tests coming out positive. That’s 0.5% and people are acting like they’re doomed to catch it if even someone breathes on them despite being told multiple times that it’s prolonged exposure that is a risk.
    Thanked by 1Incardination
  • My brother, a physician, adds this to the "medical opinion":
    Please feel free to refer anyone to the following CDC website:

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/prevention.html

    which gives the current best understanding of the virus and its transmission modes.

    The short answer is that it appears that respiratory transmission, through aerosolized particles, is a likely common mode of transmission, but that it requires:
    1. An aerosol source - a coughing or sneezing person who is infected
    2. Reasonably close proximity to the source - the estimate is about 6 feet. Beyond that, it appears the particle fall to the ground.
    3. Being in the same place as the source at the same time - see above. Compare to measles which can hang around in the air for a long time after the person spreading it is gone.


    [I asked if the statement that airborne transmission is not likely were "unquestionably true,.....all the way down to ....., a malicious lie"]


    Dissecting the question, I think the safe answer is “mostly false”. In the vast majority of cases we don’t know exactly what mode of transmission led to the infection. Respiratory secretion-to-surface-to-hand-to-face transmission is probably a common pathway, but so is respiratory transmission in close quarters, so it would be bad advice to suggest that taking precautions against airborne transmission is unnecessary. You didn’t ask about masks, but regular surgical masks are not effective because the particles are too small to be blocked by them although someone already sick would see some of their secretions trapped by such a mask when the cough. We need N95 masks when we look after patients in respiratory isolation because the air gaps in the fabric of the mask and the seal-fit to the face prevent the passage of the respiratory particles.

  • GambaGamba
    Posts: 548
    In re propagation through the air: "The percentage of airborne droplet nuclei generated by singing is 6 times more than that emitted during normal talking and approximately equivalent to that released by coughing." https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-38808-z

    This is why maintaining social distancing is so vital. As CG-Z just said, the CDC wants 6'. Our loft is sadly much too small; you can jam 24 chairs in and maybe stand 30, but it's always cheek-by-jowl. Our rehearsal space is likewise too small to give everyone more than a 2' circle to stand in

    So last night we determined that effective immediately, weekday rehearsals must stop, and all singing will be by a rotating schedule of groups of 5-6 singers from within our choirs – 6 plus organist/conductor is the max for the loft, and seems to me to be a good upper limit for widely-spaced untrained voices. We will meet 45 minutes before Mass, prep the psalm, Gospel acclamation, Communion antiphon, and something at the offertory. Tomorrow will be certain of the sopranos; mercifully one of the anthems already planned is based on a hymntune, which appears in the soprano throughout, and the organ can take the rest. Then next week, my chant schola will take Laetare, and Lent V we'll have representatives of the ATBs.

    My singers have been very appreciative and supportive of this decision and think it's a good idea. They're the salt-of-the-earth types who would skip their mother's funeral and walk barefoot in a blizzard to church if I told them we should be singing, but they are glad to still be able to sing in a safer way.

    This is in addition to usual advice about washing hands, staying away if sick or exposed to a sick person, obligation to hear Mass suspended by our bishop if one is ill or concerned for health, etc.

    What really pushed me to worry and make this change was the realization that persons can contract and spread COVID-19 without experiencing any symptoms, and thus the former advice to stay away if feeling badly wouldn't be enough to prevent transmission within the choir.

    It was just announced that all county schools are closed. Probably we will see more restrictions from the civil authorities, and who knows what else from the Diocese, so I don't know if this plan will function past tomorrow morning, but for now, everyone is happy, and I can sleep a little bit better.

    Thanked by 2CCooze PaxMelodious
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,510
    SponsaChristi,

    We're at 12 positive out of 183, so that's about 6.5% if my math is correct. I'd love to see a lower rate, which might well happen if we had wider testing.

    We were at "community spread" (untraceable origin for an infection) over a week ago.
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    This and the following 2 Sundays have seen a dispensation, though Mass will continue normally, for the time being, in my diocese.
    I was the (a capella) cantor (which includes hymn-leader) at the Vigil, and I could hear a lovely bass voice harmonizing from the pews. Simplicity can really be lovely, no matter the frustration of losing practice time and polyphonic music.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • MarkB
    Posts: 1,085
    Any gathering of people, however small, poses a risk of spreading the contagion. It's irrational to think that 249 people in a room won't spread the Wuhan coronavirus but 250 people will/could. Five people coming from different places, gathering in a room together, pose a risk, and every surface in a communal/public space is possibly contaminated. Carriers are contagious before they become symptomatic, and everything they touch and every place they have been is possibly contaminated. People need to self-isolate and adhere to that as strictly as possible. Now. But they won't because they are naïve or being blasé about this virus. Then after real fear and panic set in because hospitals are overwhelmed and their loved ones are succumbing to the virus (as is happening in Europe), people will wish they and others in their community had acted more prudently when they should have and could have. Two weeks of a half-hearted, "hey, it's an unexpected vacation, let's go out and do things," pretend isolation is not going to halt the spread of the virus. Either we do this correctly as communities and as a nation or it's all wasted effort.
    Thanked by 1MarkS
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    Our early mass this morning was down 35 or so in attendance. Our main mass was off over 100 and the choir was halved. So yes, we did suffer a drop in people. The half choir we had sang beautifully.

    This all developed so fast with this virus it makes me wonder if it has been around longer than we have been aware of it.

    Some of the Trads have been rather insulting and hateful to the bishop on social media over the no communion on the tongue edict. I wouldn't blame him one bit if he cancelled all Trad masses until this epidemic is over. I mean, yes you can disagree with him, but do it respectfully.
    Thanked by 2Carol CHGiffen
  • Carol
    Posts: 856
    In AA they have a great saying "Say what you mean, but don't say it mean."
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    IF (and I have no way of verifying this) it is true that the minister of communion is no more likely to have his (or her) hands contaminated by the tongue of communicants who receive that way than the hands of those who receive that way, what follows?
    Those whe receive on the tongue are vulnerable ony to the ministers handling of the host - ONE route. Those who receive in the hand have that infection route PLUS contamination from their own hands and whatever they have picked up since entering the church - a SECOND route.
    It would be difficult to characterise this in terms not impugning the common sense of the ecclesistical authorities, so I will refrain from comment. And the premise may be false.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw francis
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,782
    pretend isolation is not going to halt the spread of the virus. Either we do this correctly as communities and as a nation or it's all wasted effort.


    It remains to be seen if the lockdown measures will have been wasted effort. This is the Gold Standard, https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/03/singapore-was-ready-for-covid-19-other-countries-take-note/

    They are testing almost everybody several times a day (temperature).

    Anyway we have had Mass as usual, Mass attendance was ¼ down from normal, 5 Ladies, 7 men and one child in the choir. All Propers sung to the Chant in the Gradual Romanum apart from the Communion...

    ASPERGES, mode IV
    INT. Oculi mei
    KYR.XVII 1st version
    GRAD. Exsurge
    TRACT. Ad te levavi
    CREDO. II
    OFF. Jusitiae
    OFF Motet. Emmendemus Byrd.
    SAN. XVII
    AGN. XVII
    COM. Passer (Issac setting)
    (We did not have general communion)
    Domine Salvam fac.
    MARIAN ANTHEM. Ave Regina Caelorum (Simple)
    Stella Ceali extipavit with V + R and prayer.

    After Mass the over 70/80 years olds (including a former senior nurse on oxygen!) told us all off for worrying so much. They really could not see what all the fuss is about.
    As we have been forced to stop the after Mass tea and coffee, some went to the local pub instead!
  • CatherineS
    Posts: 690
    It's definitely sinking in haphazardly here. I skipped the Mass where I sing, to avoid transportation and close proximity. I'll go stand in the door for an evening Mass walking distance to home and not receive Communion nor touch anything. We haven't been dispensed yet.* Once we are I'll happily pray at home instead. Everyone's sanitizing their hands after opening doors, handling money etc.

    That said the bars popular with young people were packed last night. Bars and restaurants frequented by adults were nearly empty.

    *Actually the elderly are already dispensed. I just checked the diocese website.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    At the moment we are continuing as usual, a bit depleted today, but I think that was the Filipino families having a special celebration in the next parish. There are no known cases yet in the (very small) country, 24 tests all negative. I mentioned the situation in Singapore to a parishoner who comes from that part of the world, and he told me he his brother was in immediate charge of the response to SARS, which hit them badly. and is now quite senior in their Ministry of Health. After SARS they made sure they had vigorous intervention planned, which includes police tracing all contacts, and a lot of home isolation, as well as hospitalisation and intensive care for those who need it.