Anybody use "clackers" after the Gloria on Holy Thursday?
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 968
    Our new pastor was accustomed to this, but I've never seen it done. I found something that might work for it on Amazon here: Ratchet

    I ordered one and we'll try it out at our practice on Tuesday... but don't know if this will give the desired sound.
  • Incardination
    Posts: 832
    Also known as a claquoir. There are MANY variations including one contraption I saw used in Indiana of German design - was like a barrel with a crank. You would crank for the desired duration. Most frequently they are a simple (but beautifully designed / finished) piece of wood with a handle perpendicular on one side, and a rotating arm on the other that swings 180 degrees to clack on both parts of the swing.

    In high school, we used a simpler claquoir through the entire year - not to replace the bells as from Holy Thursday Gloria to Holy Saturday Gloria, but to indicate sitting and standing cues. Two clacks = kneel from either sitting or standing. One clack = sit if standing or stand if seated or kneeling. This was a hinged pair of blocks with a little cutout to promote the clack which could be given a precise number of clacks.
    Thanked by 1janetgorbitz
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    Yes, we use them.
    Thanked by 1kenstb
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    The liturgical name is crotalus or strepitus.
    https://churchpop.com/2016/03/23/rarest-liturgical-objects-crotalus/
  • MichaelDickson
    Posts: 419
    Janet -- what you ordered will make a 'ratchet' sound (a continual sequence of loud 'clicks'). I'm sure it can be pressed into appropriate service, but it is not the sound that a traditional claquoir makes, at least not in my (admittedly limited) experience.

    The claquoir makes a hard, wood on wood, 'smack'. When I've heard it used, a single use would involve 2-3 'clacks'.

    They are for sale on ebay occasionally, but usually as 'antiques' and thus unreasonably expensive. Example here.

    In a non-liturgical, orchestral, context, these instruments are sometimes called 'slapsticks'. I'm sure you can find them for sale (and inexpensive) in many places, for example, here.
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 968
    @ Michael: I had seen that article and initially looked for something most similar to the top photo and found this (amazingly expensive) offering for $99 plus recommended $8.95 for faster shipping here Wooden Clacker. But on the lower part of that same article, I saw that "ratchet" type devices were also sometimes used... We are also investigating whether one of our skilled carpenters in the parish could devise something more similar to the claquoir in the top photo. I'll investigate the slapstick option...
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 968
    Just found a slapstick on Amazon here Slapstick - whip cracking effect Does anyone use this? It seems like it might bring visions of the Sleigh-Ride song to mind? Or maybe a smaller version might be less whip-crack-like...
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    It would definitely make it very hard for me to not giggle or eye-roll.
    I think that using a slapstick would be a terrible idea.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    A crotalus like the one illustrated by the OP is always used at St Georges Cathedral, Southwark (England). At the elevation on Maundy Thursday, and again on Good Friday to signal the return of the procession to collect the reserved Sacrament. (It is also used behind the scenes to warn of the passage of the reserved Sacrament to and from wherever it is kept overnight)
  • Incardination
    Posts: 832
    MO, you are correct as regards the crotalus, but I believe mistaken about strepitus, which refers to the general "earthquake-like" sounds made during the period of darkness in pre-55 Tenebrae when the candle representing Christ (the last one lit) is hidden behind the altar. People bang on the pews, drop books, knock, etc., until the candle is unhidden / unveiled and shines again at which point all noise stops - symbolizing the triumph of Christ over the chaos of darkness.
    Thanked by 1madorganist
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    https://www.etsy.com/listing/563151895/rattle-hammer-claquoir-religious-item
    Thanked by 1janetgorbitz
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 968
    That is very interesting CC. I wonder if there would be a market for the simple style or crotalus as found in the ebay listing above? That wouldn't take a lot of woodworking skill and seems to be very easy to use, too.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    We have the small crotalus we have used for years, but here is the world's largest, supposedly. You may find this interesting.

    https://churchpop.com/2016/03/23/worlds-largest-crotalus-watch-churchs-triduum-bell-replacement/
  • Carol
    Posts: 856
    My 91 year old mother was given a wooden clacker by the Pastor of our church many years ago. I cannot ever remember it being used. She was told by the pastor that it was used (Pre Vatican II) instead of bells to indicate the elevation of the Eucharist on Holy Thursday. I was thinking about it the other day and wondering if she still has it. I am surprised to learn that they are still used as part of the Liturgy. It does not look like the ones pictured so perhaps it is for a different purpose. What she has is made of wood. You hold the handle and shake back and forth and a mallet will strike the large oval wooden surface above the handle, first on one side and then the other as you shake hard.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,933
    At the Society Chapel they use the "Wooden Clacker" style you saw listed for $99, Janet.

    My group has also used the slapstick, but not for Holy Thursday - we use it to signal to the congregation when to sit, stand, and kneel (most of the UV crowd being unfamiliar with the usus antiquor. We borrowed this practice, again, from the Society, having noticed they use the slapstick as a cue for ordinations, where the gathering tends to be on the large side.

    Another question regarding bells - who here rings bells at the Elevation on Palm Sunday?
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    My late father said he used the ratchet-type version as an altar boy 80-85 years ago in a German national parish in Connecticut. My late mother's Irish church up the hill used a wooden clacker in that same period.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471

    Brand New Hand crafted football rattle
    Replica vintage rattle made from Mango wood (paintable.)
    Exclusive to Lotsinstore - rattle part 18cm x 6.5 - handle 20cm - Not suitable for children
    Great replica of the old fashioned football clacker
    Also a great bird scarer or dog traing device - This is not a toy.
    Note for US readers: football = soccer
    They are, of course, very suitable for children, as long as they are not in earshot
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 968
    This is so very interesting to me... thanks all for the information and comments.

    @Liam, this gives me hope that either style will be acceptable for use. I think this is something that will really add something special to the Triduum...
  • francis
    Posts: 10,827
    For those who are interested, I can make one of these for you out of the hardwood of your specification. It would have to be for next year, however. It would be very similar to the design in the attached photo.
    03_HT 002.jpg
    1600 x 1067 - 113K
    Thanked by 4janetgorbitz Carol kenstb CCooze
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,933
    Color me interested. PM me for contact info.
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 968
    That looks very nice... I would also be interested.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    We have and use one. I think it is like yours Francis.
  • joerg
    Posts: 137
    In southern Germany the use of "Klappern" like those in Francis' Photo is ubiquitous. We also have "Rätschen" like here which are very loud and are used as a replacement of the church bells.
  • Schönbergian
    Posts: 1,063
    These always gave us choirboys a chuckle at Holy Thursday Mass.
  • Casavant Organist
    Posts: 805
    Not so much when a choirboy actually understands the significance... I'm such a nerd...
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • Carol
    Posts: 856
    Thank you everyone for this fascinating information. Francis' picture is almost exactly what my mother has. Does it have a Latin name? So am I correct that it was used at Holy Thursday Mass at the elevation of the Eucharist? Is that the only time it would be used?
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 968
    No... I think it is used also on Good Friday.
    Thanked by 1Carol
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    Used to replace both the sanctus (altar) bell (during the Mass of the Lord's Supper), and the sacristy bell (not for the Good Friday entrance, which is silent, but for the transfer of the Pre-consecrated Sacrament). At least, that's what we did.
    Thanked by 2StimsonInRehab Carol
  • RenaissanceTallis
    Posts: 6
    Used at St. Michael’s Cathedral as well
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,471
    Slightly off track, but just noticed that the Missal refers to 'the place of repose'. Does that imply that the Blessed Sacrament should remain in the church (in a tabernacle) on the altar to which it was transferred, throughout the time from Watching on Holy Thursday to the Communion on Good Friday? That's not what I have seen in the last forty years.
  • Dixit_Dominus_44
    Posts: 195
    The Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter parishes and apostolates always use clackers—I believe it's required by the rubrics for certain times in Holy Week. Not sure about the Novus Ordo.
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    We also use them at our Basilica.

    (I don't remember that always being the case, but I also remember a limited use of Sanctus bells with our previous pastor, anyway. )
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 434
    We use them at my parish. I actually and accidentally found it by accident in a chest of drawers of children's percussion instruments somebody donated to a previous music director long before me (I can only imagine what the intent was). Ours are the flapper kind like the third picture in that ChurchPOP link above.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    Slightly off track, but just noticed that the Missal refers to 'the place of repose'. Does that imply that the Blessed Sacrament should remain in the church (in a tabernacle) on the altar to which it was transferred, throughout the time from Watching on Holy Thursday to the Communion on Good Friday? That's not what I have seen in the last forty years.


    That's exactly how we do it. The time between Thursday and Friday is a time for silent adoration at the side altar where the portable tabernacle is located.
  • janetgorbitzjanetgorbitz
    Posts: 968
    We have a small side chapel where the Blessed Sacrament is placed. It is the chapel used for daily Mass.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    We use them from after the Gloria on Holy Thursday until the Gloria of the Easter Vigil. The tower bells are also silent during the Triduum.
  • CCoozeCCooze
    Posts: 1,259
    Our altar of repose is in the rectory chapel.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,827
    building the prototype of Crotalus now

    btw... can also make Tenebrae Candlestand

    This is my latest sculpture which is also for sale:

    http://tetoncraftworks.com/sacred-icon
    Thanked by 3CCooze CHGiffen CharlesW
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    My imagination is suggesting a four-sided wood box
    with a dowel piercing a side and two headed hammer handle and side.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,933
    Also interested in the candlestand for next year!

    You wouldn't also be able to help construct a catafalque, would you?
  • Carol
    Posts: 856
    Okay, Stimson, I had to look up the meaning of "catafalque!" I am guessing "dark humor" again? Or are you seriously in need of a catafalque?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    They're routinely used in solemn EF celebrations for All Souls Day.
    Thanked by 3Carol mmeladirectress StimsonInRehab
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Oh!!! You said "Catafalque" ... I thought you said "Catcerto" ... maybe it should have been "Catafauxbourdon"?

    Catcerto (Youtube)

    http://www.catcerto.com/mainthemes.pdf
    Thanked by 1Carol
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    On second thought ... maybe it was Rossini????

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3nIScO592Y

    Thanked by 2Carol StimsonInRehab
  • Carol
    Posts: 856
    The Rossini is a very clever piece. A few years ago my husband turned it into a piece for strings as an assignment for an instrumentation class he was taking. It was chosen for performance and was well received!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    The strepitus is used at Walsingham, and, I would presume, throughout the Ordinariate.
    That there should be a place in which it is not used seems highly eccentric to me.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    As of a few years ago, the local ordinariate community was using a "thunder sheet".
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,415
    A 'thunder sheet', eh?
    How droll.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,933
    Are you seriously in need of a catafalque?


    Yes. For the reasons Senor Chonak specified.

    Also, I want a change of sleeping quarters.
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Carol
  • francis
    Posts: 10,827
    Stimson in Rehab. My initial idea is one where I would carve four angels at each corner holding up the deceased.
    Thanked by 1Incardination
  • Casavant Organist
    Posts: 805
    You should hear our Strepitus... it's blasted through the electronic organ speakers (we have 2 organs) and sounds really cheesy like a thunderstorm and a train running through.
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