Church "Politics" Regarding Music
  • *deleted due to lack of serious posts*
  • I think you lost your readership after the second sentence, or if not there, at 'jazz', or 'dancing in the pews'.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    I can't decide whether this sounds more like Pentecostals, Charismatics, or the old hippie contingent you mentioned as stuck in the sixties. At any rate, none of this is traditional Catholic music so I suspect many of us would be at a loss to understand your situation or advise you.

    The politics, however, is present everywhere, from those frustrated individuals who want to run everything and worm their way into committees, to those who really wouldn't be happy in heaven and will find fault with everything. More and more I understand Jesus with the money changers in the temple. I would love to take a stick to some of our malcontents and drive them out into the elements.
  • I will attempt to answer this as calmly and rationally as I can, given the subject matter.

    The music you deem to be "traditional" is just as performance-focused (some might say sacrilegious) as unhinged jazz. (Considering that much modern organ music is built at least partially on jazz harmony, and that it manages to remain reverent the entire time, it may even be a false dichotomy...) If people are actually dancing in Mass, that is pretty much the least desirable reaction possible.

    In this case I am inclined to agree with your pastor. No matter how out-of-focus, secularistic, and ill-suited for the liturgy Haugen and his folk's music may be--if the congregation is remaining reverent, it is an enormous improvement on whatever was programmed at Christmas. I never believed I'd say this, but this is the one case where their music is preferable.

    This is hardly any attempt by the Church to stifle "good music-making." Countless choirs give superlative renditions of challenging, expressive, and accomplished music every week--yet they consistently remain reverent and in line with the expectations of the Mass. This definition encompasses far more than Gregorian chant, to be sure; but it hardly encompasses what you deem "eclectic" and what the majority of us here would deem "inappropriate" (regardless of what your choir members think; this question is not exactly up for debate). The goal of church music is indeed not to be a "performance", or something that people react to by dancing.

    The music ministry in our world does indeed have plenty of problems--but I would vehemently argue that this is certainly not one of them. Listen to your pastor. He's right.
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    "We are too good to be honest."

    "When music is flawlessly executed..."

    "Perhaps both these individuals are bipolar..."


    I am not a priest or director of music, but I think this is where the problem starts. Not to be judgmental, but I do think some humility is needed.

    Right before Holy Communion all the worshippers, clergy and laity, say "Lord, I am not worthy that Thou shouldst come under my proof, but speak only the word and my soul shall be healed" (this is the ordinariate version; I do not know what the version for the Ordinary Form in English is as I do not regularly attend it).
  • Blaise -
    To which Ordinariate parish do you belong?
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    Our Lady of the Atonement, San Antonio, TX.

    (Blaise is actually the name of one of my favorite saints; my legal first name is Paul. I actually saw you at the choral workshop last summer at the Cathedral of Our Lady of Walsingham, M. Jackson Osborn - I was with the baritones. Your DM was mine several years back. You have a very, very beautiful church, exterior and interior. While the church proper is smaller than Our Lady of the Atonement, the atmosphere is serene. I wish to get married there and cannot wait to return.)
  • So you are Paul?
    I remember you now.
    We sat next to each other a couple of times at last year's workshop.
    The choral workshop is scheduled again for this summer, with Dr Simon Carrington having been invited back.
    The dates are 13-16 June.
    Anyone reading this is welcome to attend the choral workshop at Walsingham this summer.
    Dr Carrington was the founder of the King's Singers and is an inspiring teacher of the choral arts.
    The workshop concludes with solemn evensong in the Cathedral of Our Lady of Walsingham.
    Thanked by 2Blaise CHGiffen
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    Dr. Carrington is returning? Marvelous! I enjoyed serving under his hand and was wondering if Mr. Murray was going to invite him back.

    I look so much forward to working with him.

    (Now, if I could only get some keyboard skills between now and then so that I can practice the music....)

    When does registration open?

    Paul
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Paul -
    I don't know when registration opens.
    Try googling Chorus Angelorum.
    I'll try to remember to ask Edmund and pass it on to you.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • KARU27
    Posts: 184
    To the OP:
    Here's an interesting YouTube video that I think has some relevance to your situation:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe1c-4Tp2JE
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • Carol
    Posts: 856
    When I first read the OP I was wondering if it was serious, or merely meant to send some people over the edge! I am more contemporary than many who began this forum, but the basic underlying tone of your post is a bit concerning. There will always be some disagreement about individual pieces of music, but the overall goal of sacred music is worship as part of Mass. Entertainment is not the goal. Try not to be defensive, but take time to reflect and see if some of the feedback could be helpful.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    For jbmusicrose: what sort of music do you play for the ordinary parts of the Mass (the dialogues, the Kyrie, Gloria, Holy, etc.)? The music for the Mass text itself is more important than the hymns or instrumental music that we add on.
    Thanked by 1Blaise
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    By the way, since the title of this thread is "Church 'politics' regarding music", I should say that CMAA really is dedicated to making the Church's teaching about music better known. The Church's principles about sacred music were articulated in several documents over the course of the 20th century, from 1903 through Vatican II and beyond.

    An introduction to the themes involved appears in CMAA's Q&A page:
    https://musicasacra.com/about-cmaa/faq/
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,165
    @jbmusicrose - Are you at a Protestant church? I can't begin to imagine a either a Catholic or an Orthodox church allowing what you described to go on.
    Thanked by 2CCooze CharlesW
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,982
    Not Orthodox. JB would be freezing in Siberian gulag. He be trying to keep toesies warm. Is outrage!